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06-04-2014, 01:29 PM
  #126
Markowicz
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I fully expect Tinordi and Beaulieu to be our 6-7 d-men for the entire 14-15 season unless they have a setback before or during the season.

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06-04-2014, 01:35 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I agree with this and to me Tinordi is still showing me what he showed in London which was nothing special. Rumor is Big Joe may be on the move from San Jose if so I say we package off JT a 3rd and something else for him.
Says the guy that never has any positive comments to say about our prospects in the OHL.

Did you not maybe consider that Tinordi's learning curve applies at every level ?

He'll need to play in the NHL to develop into a dominant shutdown defenseman and I think he will start down that path next year.

We shouldn't trade a guy like Tinordi without giving him a good chance to prove what he's got unless we somehow get offered a ludicrous overpayment for him.

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06-04-2014, 01:38 PM
  #128
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gonna make us forget we traded mcdonagh.....DO....NOT.....TRADE....HIM!!!

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06-04-2014, 01:39 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
Says the guy that never has any positive comments to say about our prospects in the OHL.

Did you not maybe consider that Tinordi's learning curve applies at every level ?

He'll need to play in the NHL to develop into a dominant shutdown defenseman and I think he will start down that path next year.

We shouldn't trade a guy like Tinordi without giving him a good chance to prove what he's got unless we somehow get offered a ludicrous overpayment for him.
He didn't show me much in Hamilton either the gamesd I have been to see which is about 15 a season. I would take Patyern over Tinordi to be completley honest.

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06-04-2014, 01:50 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I agree with this and to me Tinordi is still showing me what he showed in London which was nothing special. Rumor is Big Joe may be on the move from San Jose if so I say we package off JT a 3rd and something else for him.
Bob Gainey is that you?

Step away from the keyboard...

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06-04-2014, 01:54 PM
  #131
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I don't think Tinordi is really that untouchable. Rare combo doesn't necessarily mean more valuable. If anything he's a guy that might make sense to trade because you'd get an overpayment for him for the same reasons he's being called untouchable.
I'm sure we could get an overpayment...but then we'd PAY an overpayment to replace him or find a similar player in 2-3 years. The best way to build a strong defense is via the draft instead of overpaying in trades or for UFA's.

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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
He didn't show me much in Hamilton either the gamesd I have been to see which is about 15 a season. I would take Patyern over Tinordi to be completley honest.
You're too obsessed with what players are now and don't realize that you are looking at a 20-21 year old kid who has yet to fully fill out his frame.

Pateryn is also 2 years older than Tinordi and his frame is at full maturity. Long term upsiside there is no comparison.

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06-04-2014, 02:29 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'm sure we could get an overpayment...but then we'd PAY an overpayment to replace him or find a similar player in 2-3 years. The best way to build a strong defense is via the draft instead of overpaying in trades or for UFA's.



You're too obsessed with what players are now and don't realize that you are looking at a 20-21 year old kid who has yet to fully fill out his frame.

Pateryn is also 2 years older than Tinordi and his frame is at full maturity. Long term upsiside there is no comparison.
Is this what he is going to be just magically going to show up one day? He has shown to be the same player now as he was at 18 and that has not impressed at all. SO does this other player just materialize one day cuz it sure has not happened to this point. Usually you see atleast a decent progression over those years but there has not been the progression to this supposed potential many say is there. He is still not great positionally and you would think that would have started to show moreso by now yet it has not. His first pass is less than stellar still and his decision making with the puck is sub par IMHO. So when will these things all change and become this stud big stay at home D man everyone has talked about?

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06-04-2014, 02:29 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I would take Joe over Tinordi hands down the guy still is one of the best set up men in the game. Put him at centre on the first line and let him get the puck to Paches or for arguments sake Vanek etc and that is a formidable foe up front.
For how much longer is he a top set up man in the league? A 36,37,38 yr old JT is going to be able to keep up with our speed? JT will be retiring around the same time Tinordi will be entering his prime.

At this point, JT is just an over grown and over the hill DD (pass first, won't shoot, low physicality)

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06-04-2014, 02:33 PM
  #134
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For how much longer is he a top set up man in the league? A 36,37,38 yr old JT is going to be able to keep up with our speed? JT will be retiring around the same time Tinordi will be entering his prime.

At this point, JT is just an over grown and over the hill DD (pass first, won't shoot, low physicality)
Send them Tinordi and DD please for all I care it rids of us a smurf that can't play with anyone but Paches and gets us a return that is still valuable for I would say 3-4 years which is good for the piece we need now.

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06-04-2014, 02:35 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'm sure we could get an overpayment...but then we'd PAY an overpayment to replace him or find a similar player in 2-3 years. The best way to build a strong defense is via the draft instead of overpaying in trades or for UFA's.
Why would we do that? The whole point of what I said is that players like him are overvalued. I'm not saying I'd be shopping the guy, but I don't think he's untouchable at all. He isn't McDonagh or Chara, he has little to no offensive potential at the NHL level. There's value in top 4 defensive specialists, but would anyone call Gorges or Hjalmarsson untouchable?

We don't "need" a Tinordi type to be successful. Rare does not necessarily mean intrinsically valuable, nor does trading Tinordi mean you need to find a replacement. It's a lot like the race to find the "next Lucic", they're unique players, but you don't need a Tinordi just you don't need a Lucic.

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06-04-2014, 02:36 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Is this what he is going to be just magically going to show up one day? He has shown to be the same player now as he was at 18 and that has not impressed at all. SO does this other player just materialize one day cuz it sure has not happened to this point. Usually you see atleast a decent progression over those years but there has not been the progression to this supposed potential many say is there. He is still not great positionally and you would think that would have started to show moreso by now yet it has not. His first pass is less than stellar still and his decision making with the puck is sub par IMHO. So when will these things all change and become this stud big stay at home D man everyone has talked about?
You're letting your biased opinion of him cloud your judgment.

He struggled in the OHL early his 18 year old season, this year, 3 years later he played some pretty solid NHL hockey when called up...the NHL is about 4 notches above the OHL in terms of caliber. He has made pretty big strides the last 4 years.

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06-04-2014, 02:37 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Send them Tinordi and DD please for all I care it rids of us a smurf that can't play with anyone but Paches and gets us a return that is still valuable for I would say 3-4 years which is good for the piece we need now.
JT couldn't win on a great SJ team. Who says an older JT can be the "piece we need now" in the market with some of the highest pressure in the league? He would be eaten alive and we might all be lamenting the loss of Tinordi, much the way people lament the loss of McD.

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06-04-2014, 02:38 PM
  #138
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like everyone else, short of an extreme overpayment, there is no way I trade Tinordi.

same can be said for Beaulieu, but I value Tinordi even more (yes, I said it, we haven't had a player like him in the system for many years)

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06-04-2014, 02:39 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
You're letting your biased opinion of him cloud your judgment.

He struggled in the OHL early his 18 year old season, this year, 3 years later he played some pretty solid NHL hockey when called up...the NHL is about 4 notches above the OHL in terms of caliber. He has made pretty big strides the last 4 years.
To me watching him lose puck battles and make poor decisions this year in Hamilton and MTL has been cringe worthy. He has not made the strides necessary to garner the title of that given him by many of our fans it is mind boggling how some see him as a sure thing can't miss NEVER trade him prospect when that is simply NOT the case.

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06-04-2014, 02:40 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Odelein24 View Post
JT couldn't win on a great SJ team. Who says an older JT can be the "piece we need now" in the market with some of the highest pressure in the league? He would be eaten alive and we might all be lamenting the loss of Tinordi, much the way people lament the loss of McD.
I do not miss McD at all is he good sure but I do not worry about the guys we trade and to me there is NEVER a player that is beyond being dealt.

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06-04-2014, 02:41 PM
  #141
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Defensemen take longer to develop. If he needs more time in the minors, so be it. Mistakes are made when giving up on a player too soon, especially a defenseman, arguably the most difficult position to develop.

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06-04-2014, 02:44 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I do not miss McD at all is he good sure but I do not worry about the guys we trade and to me there is NEVER a player that is beyond being dealt.
Maybe no one is untouchable, but trading young D for older forwards doesn't seem like a good strategy.

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06-04-2014, 02:46 PM
  #143
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Maybe no one is untouchable, but trading young D for older forwards doesn't seem like a good strategy.
When you know one can come in and be an impact straight away while waiting for another few years to HOPEFULLY develop to what you want to me is a no brainer. We need to start filling some of our immediate needs.

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06-04-2014, 02:53 PM
  #144
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When you know one can come in and be an impact straight away while waiting for another few years to HOPEFULLY develop to what you want to me is a no brainer. We need to start filling some of our immediate needs.
Another centre (talented but older) is not what's needed on this team. A major complaint is lack of size especially on D and you want to trade that away for another center.

McD wasn't lighting up the minors at the time of his trade and look at him now.

I agree with you that we need to start filling holes but trading Jarred Tinordi (large defensive prospect) for Joe Thornton (another centre) is not the answer.

To me, that trade opens up a bigger hole (defensive prospects, size on D) while filling a hole that doesn't exist (centre depth).

I like big Joe but I don't see it working out for him in montreal, and it would only be worse for him if Tinordi rounds into a nice Defensive D in SJ.


Last edited by Odelein24: 06-04-2014 at 03:04 PM.
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06-04-2014, 02:57 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
To me watching him lose puck battles and make poor decisions this year in Hamilton and MTL has been cringe worthy. He has not made the strides necessary to garner the title of that given him by many of our fans it is mind boggling how some see him as a sure thing can't miss NEVER trade him prospect when that is simply NOT the case.
Funny that you have this opinion and you try and push it on everybody, yet hockey people, the ones paid to make hockey decisions, think the complete opposite.

I don't see him as a sure thing, but he has the tolls to make a big impact at the NHL level, and before trading him I give him about 150-200 NHL games. Most of the worst decisions made by NHL GM's are giving up on your d-men too early.

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06-04-2014, 03:02 PM
  #146
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Beaulieu and Tinordi should be part of the long-term plan. They both have insane potential. Tinordi's a great skater for a guy his size and he is the type of D we thought we had in Komisarek... it's just that Komisarek couldn't handle the puck to save his life. Tinordi is confident with the puck on his stick. You add his ass-kicking abilities and you have a keeper for sure.

Beaulieu is an interesting project. He's a smooth skater with incredible speed and he has size. With proper development, this guy could become a gem. He also has a mean streak and likes to put fists in faces.

Great future for them.


Last edited by Uber Coca: 06-04-2014 at 03:33 PM.
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06-04-2014, 03:03 PM
  #147
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There's nothing "very rare" about Tinordi's physicality. As for his size, he loses a lot of 1 on 1 battles along the boards... and not always against physically imposing players.

When I look at Tinordi, I see a guy with no mean streak, who reminds me of Hal Gill without the PK prowess. He's still young and can change that, but I have a hard time being excited about him.
lol at the Hal Gill comparison... they're just not the same type of player at all

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06-04-2014, 03:13 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Funny that you have this opinion and you try and push it on everybody, yet hockey people, the ones paid to make hockey decisions, think the complete opposite.

I don't see him as a sure thing, but he has the tolls to make a big impact at the NHL level, and before trading him I give him about 150-200 NHL games. Most of the worst decisions made by NHL GM's are giving up on your d-men too early.
You're wasting your breath, 29dryden29 has had it out for Tinordi almost since the day we drafted him. Literally four years of the same shtick.


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06-04-2014, 03:16 PM
  #149
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lol at the Hal Gill comparison... they're just not the same type of player at all
and LOL at those who think Tinordi is the representation of a guy who has a "mean streak". And while he's already significantly faster than Gill, he has shown nothing more in his NHL stints so far.

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06-04-2014, 03:48 PM
  #150
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You're wasting your breath, 29dryden29 has had it out for Tinordi almost since the day we drafted him. Literally four years of the same shtick.
That's not true. There have been periods where he hasn't said a word about him at all! The fact that those periods line up perfectly with Jared Tinordi doing well is just coincidence.

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