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The End of the Goal Judge?

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09-30-2003, 04:48 PM
  #1
Game 8
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The End of the Goal Judge?

Interesting article, one of the officials that really hasn't added much to the game. If this works out I think it will be an improvement. The goal judge never really added to the game and it was always the refs call anyway.


http://www.canada.com/technology/sto...9-55D18211913F

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09-30-2003, 04:58 PM
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Allan
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I couldn't get it to work, but on the upside, it's always funny when the technology story won't load. Love that Microsoft.

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09-30-2003, 05:08 PM
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Game 8
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True Enough!!!!

I am not sure why it does not load but here is the story! Kind of eliminates that good free seat someone gets.............



High-tech makeover for hockey's red light district?
State-of-the-art nets could eliminate the need to 'go upstairs'


CanWest News Service

Tuesday, September 30, 2003
ADVERTISEMENT

OTTAWA - One Ottawa man's bright idea could put hockey goal judges around the world out of work.

Jim Boone, a self-described hockey nut, has designed a net with goalposts that flash a glaring red light to indicate when a goal has been scored.

The net is making its professional debut in an American Hockey League exhibition game between the Rochester Americans and the Cleveland Barons on Saturday night in Rochester, N.Y.

Boone says the the glowing goalposts are a more sensory-thrilling experience than the traditional tiny red light placed above a goal judge's head.

But more importantly, plans are in the works to use electronic sensors so that the nets light up the instant a puck crosses the goal line -- eliminating the need for the not-so-flawless human eye to determine if a goal has been scored.

Nerve-racking waits while officials examine instant-replay videotapes could be no more. Infamous non-goals, such as the one that New Jersey Devils Jay Pandolfo slid past Patrick Lalime of the Ottawa Senators in Game 3 of last year's Stanley Cup playoffs, will be a thing of the past, Boone said.

"It'll cause less delays and speed up the game," he said.

Boone, whose company is called Litnets, has researched the puck sensors and says the project is doable -- now he just needs the capital to get it off the ground.

If Saturday's debut is a success and general managers in the AHL decide to outfit their arenas with his invention, it'll be a matter of time before he starts manufacturing the puck sensors, he said.

So goal judges are safe for the time being -- but not goalies.

The blast of light that shoots out of the post is never flattering for the person wearing the goalie pads, Boone said.

"Goalies are going to absolutely detest this thing. It's going to give them a sunburn. There's going to be a lot of broken goalie sticks over the crossbar.

"It puts the guy in the spotlight."

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09-30-2003, 05:16 PM
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FacelessButcher
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Finally, I had that idea forever. They should of never got rid of the glowing puck all replays that have to be reviewed should use that technology to see when it goes in or just a fricking barcode detector would do if they had the scanner built in the bottom.

They need to use this for offsides too just put something on everyones skates and the puck to have it detect when they are offside u could use an automated GPS system

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09-30-2003, 05:22 PM
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Game 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Finally, I had that idea forever. They should of never got rid of the glowing puck all replays that have to be reviewed should use that technology to see when it goes in or just a fricking barcode detector would do if they had the scanner built in the bottom.

They need to use this for offsides too just put something on everyones skates and the puck to have it detect when they are offside u could use an automated GPS system
Hey good idea I never thought of that. If technology could take care of these kinds of calls maybe we could have one less official on the ice as well.



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09-30-2003, 05:30 PM
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Looks like five guys all had the same idea. Too bad for them.

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09-30-2003, 05:31 PM
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All named Jim too. Wierd.

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09-30-2003, 07:21 PM
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If it is all going to be done by sensors...then what if a goalie or player ends up partially in the net?

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09-30-2003, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
If it is all going to be done by sensors...then what if a goalie or player ends up partially in the net?
Interacting sensors - one's in the puck

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09-30-2003, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Finally, I had that idea forever. They should of never got rid of the glowing puck all replays that have to be reviewed should use that technology to see when it goes in or just a fricking barcode detector would do if they had the scanner built in the bottom.

They need to use this for offsides too just put something on everyones skates and the puck to have it detect when they are offside u could use an automated GPS system
This would not work for offsides, as a player's skate must be on the ice behind the blueline, not just behind the line. If a player has one skate on the ice in the attacking zone, and one foot in the air (not touching the ice) in the neutral zone, the play is still offside.

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09-30-2003, 08:16 PM
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FacelessButcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
This would not work for offsides, as a player's skate must be on the ice behind the blueline, not just behind the line. If a player has one skate on the ice in the attacking zone, and one foot in the air (not touching the ice) in the neutral zone, the play is still offside.
You can put a sensor on both skates and GPS can measure height as well as lontitude and latitude of course

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10-01-2003, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
You can put a sensor on both skates and GPS can measure height as well as lontitude and latitude of course
I don't mind using some technology but GPS systems are nowhere near accurate enough for this kind of use. Plus, technology has a way of backfiring too, as the recent 100m at the World Track and Field Championships showed.

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10-01-2003, 06:05 AM
  #13
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as frustraiting as some calls and waits can be sometimes, the refs flaws are a part of the game. Can you imagine baseball is a sensor on the batters knees and chest and coming up from the plate to say if it's a strike?!? I mean C'mon people, the officials are pretty decent.

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10-01-2003, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
as frustraiting as some calls and waits can be sometimes, the refs flaws are a part of the game. Can you imagine baseball is a sensor on the batters knees and chest and coming up from the plate to say if it's a strike?!? I mean C'mon people, the officials are pretty decent.
who cares about baseball it sucks anyway and Pinehockey GPS is getting more commonly used and more accurate it's built into many watches nowdays but yes it would be pretty hard to get it all to mesh and I would assume the technology would have its share of bugs and be worse then the refs for a little while. but, once the bugs are out it would be great refs take up too much space on the ice and interfere in the play at times and not having to deal with human error would be great.

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10-01-2003, 06:30 AM
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PineJockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
who cares about baseball it sucks anyway and Pinehockey GPS is getting more commonly used and more accurate it's built into many watches nowdays but yes it would be pretty hard to get it all to mesh and I would assume the technology would have its share of bugs and be worse then the refs for a little while. but, once the bugs are out it would be great refs take up too much space on the ice and interfere in the play at times and not having to deal with human error would be great.
Yep, GPS is getting better no doubt about it. But we are talking about cm if not mm's here. Currently GPS are accurate to meters, or decimeters at best. But having said that, I'm sure that some other flavour of technology could be employed. I think curling is experimenting with something for hogline violations. But you will still need the refs to overrule the technology when it screws-up, as it invariably will. Think how many times a day some technology in your life screws-up - computer crashes, taped the wrong show on the damn VCR, program failures, etc. I like technology, but human officials are always going to be necessary.

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10-01-2003, 07:14 AM
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i had a similar idea where whenever the puck crosses the goal line, the puck spontaniously combusts due to gases that are trapped behind the goal line. the netting inturn starts a low grade fire that lasts about 2 or 3 minutes, the crease then levates above the ice level and a midget rises form the underworld to officially confirm the goal, then the small man calls a tv time out in order to re-mesh the net, re-gas the goal area, treat the goaltender for 2nd degree burns and bring out the zamboni's to re-ice the ice......but this flashing goalpost thing works too I guess.

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10-01-2003, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
who cares about baseball it sucks anyway and Pinehockey GPS is getting more commonly used and more accurate it's built into many watches nowdays but yes it would be pretty hard to get it all to mesh and I would assume the technology would have its share of bugs and be worse then the refs for a little while. but, once the bugs are out it would be great refs take up too much space on the ice and interfere in the play at times and not having to deal with human error would be great.
It will take some time to work the bugs out, but I like the idea of more room on the ice. 2 on ice officials sounds about right.

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10-01-2003, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
i had a similar idea where whenever the puck crosses the goal line, the puck spontaniously combusts due to gases that are trapped behind the goal line. the netting inturn starts a low grade fire that lasts about 2 or 3 minutes, the crease then levates above the ice level and a midget rises form the underworld to officially confirm the goal, then the small man calls a tv time out in order to re-mesh the net, re-gas the goal area, treat the goaltender for 2nd degree burns and bring out the zamboni's to re-ice the ice......but this flashing goalpost thing works too I guess.
If you have to ruin the game, you might as well go all out. Thanks, that was funny.


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10-01-2003, 07:15 PM
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While the spontaneous combustion idea is a good one, I think that many of you are not recognizing that part of the excitement of the game is the drama of uncertainty in these situations... and absorbing the reactions of players, coaches, and fans - on both sides of the decision.

Leave it to the officials to decide. If the call goes the wrong way, it just gives us fodder for discussion here.

It's too easy to get caught up in the minutiae ... (I've been wanting to use that word in a conversation lately)

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10-01-2003, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmagic
While the spontaneous combustion idea is a good one, I think that many of you are not recognizing that part of the excitement of the game is the drama of uncertainty in these situations... and absorbing the reactions of players, coaches, and fans - on both sides of the decision.

Leave it to the officials to decide. If the call goes the wrong way, it just gives us fodder for discussion here.
At the rate this is going, we might as well suggest replacing the players with robots. That way all of the players will do everything exactly right every time. Wouldn't that be exciting?

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10-01-2003, 07:23 PM
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the main thing I like about this idea is that you'd be able to count goals where the goalies glove is actually in the net at the time the puck is caught, but you can't be sure because you can't physically see the puck.

Or when the goalie is on top of the puck, and the puck is over the line, but again it cannot be seen.

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10-01-2003, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
You can put a sensor on both skates and GPS can measure height as well as lontitude and latitude of course
Sorry, But current GPS technology does not measure height (altitude)
accurately.

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10-01-2003, 08:01 PM
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Just to put the GPS issue to bed - since I've worked with it every day for the last 20 odd years - the idea is moot since the satellite signals cannot be picked up inside a building like the Coliseum formerly known as Skyreach.

Working with two survey grade receivers in tandem with one as a base on a known control point and the other as a rover, you can establish relative accuracies in the 2cm +1ppm range real time in XY and Z. But you still need a few seconds of data to accomplish that AND you need a clear view of the sky. And you need dual frequency receivers that are in the $20000 CDN range for each. And you need a radio link between them.

All for the occasional goal verification?

But as I say, its a moot point.

Wouldn't you rather jaw with the fan of the opposing team sitting next to you in the stands when there is a controversial goal? Way more fun.

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10-01-2003, 08:11 PM
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FacelessButcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmagic
Just to put the GPS issue to bed - since I've worked with it every day for the last 20 odd years - the idea is moot since the satellite signals cannot be picked up inside a building like the Coliseum formerly known as Skyreach.

Working with two survey grade receivers in tandem with one as a base on a known control point and the other as a rover, you can establish relative accuracies in the 2cm +1ppm range real time in XY and Z. But you still need a few seconds of data to accomplish that AND you need a clear view of the sky. And you need dual frequency receivers that are in the $20000 CDN range for each. And you need a radio link between them.

All for the occasional goal verification?

But as I say, its a moot point.

Wouldn't you rather jaw with the fan of the opposing team sitting next to you in the stands when there is a controversial goal? Way more fun.
well thats defintive my apologies I was basing it on my hypothetical knowledge of the system

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10-01-2003, 08:36 PM
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Uh guys,

The technology discussed in the article has nothing to do with GPS.

I also don't think that the goalposts should light up. Off ice officials should receive an "alert" when a goal is scored. That way if the ref misses a goal, he is contacted during the next stoppage of play. Same as now, only with more tools at their disposal.

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