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Old
03-01-2014, 01:57 AM
  #26
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Good thing he didn't get traded to a team I hate.

The Blues just gained a ***load of bandwagoners.

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03-01-2014, 02:00 AM
  #27
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Wait a minute, wouldn't the Blues making it to the WCF, losing in it and then Miller NOT re-signing there be the best possible scenario?? If that happens we are guaranteed their 2014 1st and since we already own their 2015 1st without Miller then they will have to rely on Elliot or an unproven Allen next season, which could mean a major drop off in the standings for the top of the conference to making the playoffs as a low seed.

So that is what I hope happens. Blues make it to the western conference finals, get swept which causes Miller to re-evaluate, we get awarded their 2014 1st, Anaheim or San Jose decide to offer him a big deal, he signs with one of the two teams I mentioned, St Louis has to turn to Elliot, a guy who is merely a backup/1b goalie and Allen, an unproven prospect. Blues end up struggling next season and the Sabres end up picking ~#16-20 next season with the Blues 2015 1st

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03-01-2014, 05:21 AM
  #28
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I'm rooting for the cond pick.

The Sabres could end up with 4 of the top 30 picks in 2014, at least.


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03-01-2014, 06:48 AM
  #29
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Staley almost nailed the scenario for me. I'd prefer that St.L makes the WC finals (even win the Cup), but Miller signs somewhere else anyway. Then StL crashes next year into lottery position, and their 14th pick miraculously gets selected for #1 overall.

Blues fans riot. Sabres fans get drunk...more than usual.

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03-01-2014, 07:48 AM
  #30
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"2014-2015 Cheer for the Blues tank"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Staley almost nailed the scenario for me. I'd prefer that St.L makes the WC finals (even win the Cup), but Miller signs somewhere else anyway. Then StL crashes next year into lottery position, and their 14th pick miraculously gets selected for #1 overall.
Thread for next season.

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Old
03-01-2014, 08:43 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Wait a minute, wouldn't the Blues making it to the WCF, losing in it and then Miller NOT re-signing there be the best possible scenario?? If that happens we are guaranteed their 2014 1st and since we already own their 2015 1st without Miller then they will have to rely on Elliot or an unproven Allen next season, which could mean a major drop off in the standings for the top of the conference to making the playoffs as a low seed.

So that is what I hope happens. Blues make it to the western conference finals, get swept which causes Miller to re-evaluate, we get awarded their 2014 1st, Anaheim or San Jose decide to offer him a big deal, he signs with one of the two teams I mentioned, St Louis has to turn to Elliot, a guy who is merely a backup/1b goalie and Allen, an unproven prospect. Blues end up struggling next season and the Sabres end up picking ~#16-20 next season with the Blues 2015 1st
Although that would be nice, let's not kid ourselves. The Blues are great, and will continue to be so, regardless of their goaltending situation. As much as Halak and Elliott have "struggled," the Blues are still 3rd in goals against. Elliott has a GAA just over 2. It doesn't matter who's in net when you give up the second fewest shots in the league.

As far as this season goes, I'm looking at the standings and St. Louis is 2nd, with Chicago sitting 3rd. If that's the second round playoff matchup... ugh!

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03-01-2014, 06:31 PM
  #32
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I need this clarified:

ESPN reported if the blues get to the WCF or miller re-signs THEN:

We don't get blues 3rd 2016

We give blues our minn 2014 2nd,

We give blues our 2014 3rd

we get blues 2014 first.

How is that a win for Buffalo? Couldn't you trade those picks for the blues 1st and call it a win for St. Louis?

I think we should be rooting against St. Louis, unless I have the details wrong here. Help!

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03-01-2014, 06:36 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I need this clarified:

ESPN reported if the blues get to the WCF or miller re-signs THEN:

We don't get blues 3rd 2016

We give blues our minn 2014 2nd,

We give blues our 2014 3rd

we get blues 2014 first.

How is that a win for Buffalo? Couldn't you trade those picks for the blues 1st and call it a win for St. Louis?

I think we should be rooting against St. Louis, unless I have the details wrong here. Help!
- That condition is in there to make it more palatable for St Louis in that they are only dropping maybe 15-20 spots while picking up another "very late 2nd" (our 3rd)
- It makes sense for the Sabres because they already have a plethora of picks in the first 2 rounds the next 2 years and Murray would rather have a 1st in a not-as-deep draft, this year, than a bunch of 2nds and 3rds.

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Old
03-01-2014, 06:37 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I need this clarified:

ESPN reported if the blues get to the WCF or miller re-signs THEN:

We don't get blues 3rd 2016

We give blues our minn 2014 2nd,

We give blues our 2014 3rd

we get blues 2014 first.

How is that a win for Buffalo? Couldn't you trade those picks for the blues 1st and call it a win for St. Louis?

I think we should be rooting against St. Louis, unless I have the details wrong here. Help!
We cant just stockpile picks and continue to make those selections. We will have too many bodies and not enough contracts.

Pick #60 and #50 doesnt get you pick #26-29. We basically used the extra value from Miller to trade up in the draft with picks that otherwise wouldnt have gotten it done.

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03-01-2014, 06:48 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
- That condition is in there to make it more palatable for St Louis in that they are only dropping maybe 15-20 spots while picking up another "very late 2nd" (our 3rd)
- It makes sense for the Sabres because they already have a plethora of picks in the first 2 rounds the next 2 years and Murray would rather have a 1st in a not-as-deep draft, this year, than a bunch of 2nds and 3rds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B U F F A L O View Post
We cant just stockpile picks and continue to make those selections. We will have too many bodies and not enough contracts.

Pick #60 and #50 doesnt get you pick #26-29. We basically used the extra value from Miller to trade up in the draft with picks that otherwise wouldnt have gotten it done.
Okay, so I disagree, and think that picks #45 (Minnesota is closer to 45 than 50), 60 and 89 (remember, we'd otherwise have this third rounder) should get you 29 in a poor draft year.

So I think it's a wash on all the conditional picks in this deal.

We just trade Miller and Ott for a first, Stewart, and Carrier.

Stewart is worth a second rounder at the deadline next year if we're lucky.

In my mind, that's Miller and Ott for a first and a pair of seconds.

We got ****ed.

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03-01-2014, 06:54 PM
  #36
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here we go BLUES here we go!!

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03-01-2014, 06:55 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Okay, so I disagree, and think that picks #45 (Minnesota is closer to 45 than 50), 60 and 89 (remember, we'd otherwise have this third rounder) should get you 29 in a poor draft year.

So I think it's a wash on all the conditional picks in this deal.

We just trade Miller and Ott for a first, Stewart, and Carrier.

Stewart is worth a second rounder at the deadline next year if we're lucky.

In my mind, that's Miller and Ott for a first and a pair of seconds.

We got ****ed.
Plz reboot your mind. Stewart is worth more than a 2nd round pick. Halak gives us another NHL goaltender or possibly a 2nd/3rd round pick. Carrier is a solid prospect. There may well be two 1sts out of the deal.

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03-01-2014, 06:57 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
why? what part of my analysis is off?

Total honesty here, I've been away from the internet for a bit and JUST finding out about this deal, so I'm not being snarky and I'm happy to hear what other folks are thinking.
First off the market for Miller is what? Wild & Blues? The Blues had all the control in this trade, they set the market price, not the Sabres. What playoff teams are willing to give up assets for an almost 34 year old goalie who is a FA in a few months that will be commanding 7+ million a year? Ott is also a FA in a few months and will command a 4-5 million+ a year contract. Ott is nothing more than a 3rd liner that can win some faceoffs.

With that settled I see the trade like this.

Stewart is already better than Ott and is only 26 WITH another year left on his contract. He can be traded for a 1st/2nd next year depending on how he does here or even this year if teams get desperate for a power forward in the playoffs.

Halak can be traded for a 2nd rounder or used for ammo to get another 1st with all our 2nd rounders.

Carrier was a top 60 pick in a very deep draft last year that many people had a 1st round grade on.

A 1st rounder in 2015 which will also be a very deep draft.

Another 1st in 2014 if Miller resigns or the Blues make the CF.

I see it like this:

Stewart for Ott. Stewart is already better than Ott. Sabres win

Halak, Carrier, 2015 1st, potential 2014 1st for Miller. Sabres win BY ALOT.

It's all about supply and demand, as an economics graduate this trade is vastly in favor of the Sabres. We made out like bandits.

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03-01-2014, 06:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Plz reboot your mind
No need for the snark, just tell me which part of the analysis is off. Is Stewart worth more than I'm saying? Is #45, 60 and 89 not worth #29? Give me something to work with here.

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03-01-2014, 07:03 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank For Reinhart View Post
First off the market for Miller is what? Wild & Blues? What playoff teams are willing to give up assets for an almost 34 year old goalie who is a FA in a few months that will be commanding 7+ million a year? Ott is also a FA in a few months and will command a 4-5 million+ a year contract. Ott is nothing more than a 3rd liner that can win some faceoffs.

With that settled I see the trade like this.

Stewart is already better than Ott and is only 26 WITH another year left on his contract. He can be traded for a 1st/2nd next year depending on how he does here or even this year if teams get desperate for a power forward in the playoffs.

Halak can be traded for a 2nd rounder or used for ammo to get another 1st with all our 2nd rounders.

Carrier was a top 60 pick in a very deep draft last year that many people had a 1st round grade on.

A 1st rounder in 2015 which will also be a very deep draft.

Another 1st in 2014 if Miller resigns or the Blues make the CF.

I see it like this:

Stewart for Ott. Stewart is already better than Ott. Sabres win

Halak, Carrier, 2015 1st, potential 2014 1st for Miller. Sabres win BY ALOT.

It's all about supply and demand, as an economics graduate this trade is vastly in favor of the Sabres. We made out like bandits.
I'd far rather have Ott than Stewart. Stewart is a busted lazy scorer who most Blues fans wanted off the team. I'd far rather re-sign Ott than have Stewart. Just for the purpose of having good work ethic guiding our young kids. If we can get rid of Stewart next year for a 2nd rounder, I'll be happy. Am I wrong about this? He's been nailed to the bench down there.

I think all the conditional picks are a wash. 45, 60, and 89 for 29 in a bad year. I say we just throw them out of the analysis.

So it's Ott and Miller for a first and two seconds? Do we agree that this is what the deal is? BEcause I think with Ott's reputation around the league, we should've gotten a first for him alone at least. Miller as well. When you combine the two of them, I'd have to think you could at least pry Rattie or Jaskin away from them, but it seems like the Blues kept all of their high value pieces.

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03-01-2014, 07:12 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Plz reboot your mind. Stewart is worth more than a 2nd round pick. Halak gives us another NHL goaltender or possibly a 2nd/3rd round pick. Carrier is a solid prospect. There may well be two 1sts out of the deal.
Halak is a throwaway, isn't he? He leaves at the end of the year, I hope (why upgrade our goaltending from tankworthy to just good enough to fail on a contender?).

Stewart might be worth more than second round pick now. But we have no use for a bad work ethic just hanging around for the next tank year, so the question is what is he worth as a rental at the deadline next year?

Carrier is a solid 2nd rounder, I said as much.

I still come down to our 2 best pieces moved for a 2015 first and a pair of seconds. Call me crazy, but I can see none of the pieces from this deal being on a Sabres roster in the long term. I'd have liked to see us leverage Ott and Miller at least for one, single top prospect out of the St. Louis system - a Rattie or Jaskin. I think it's a bummer that we didn't get that.

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03-01-2014, 07:40 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
No need for the snark, just tell me which part of the analysis is off. Is Stewart worth more than I'm saying? Is #45, 60 and 89 not worth #29? Give me something to work with here.
It wasn't meant to be anything more than cheeky, no offense intended.

Stewart is worth more than a 2nd, yes. He's not a rental. He's 26, his career goal scoring pace is 25.42 per 82 games. He's a very big player with a decent mean streak. He's also streaky, inconsistent, and not good defensively. Still, that production is legit and he was a bad fit in St. Louis. If the Sabres were to trade him now they'd get more than a 2nd. They could instead keep him and get a year's worth of value out of him before either extending him or trading him at next year's deadline.

Halak gives them another NHL goaltender to ride the season out with or he could possibly be flipped for another pick. No matter how pro-tank I am, the Sabres needed that 2nd goaltender. Hackett doesn't deserve to be in the NHL and the Amerks need Lieuwen.

Carrier is a guy who had about a late 1st grade in a very deep draft but fell due to injury. His season this year hasn't been great, but he still has that same talent level. He's comparable at worst to Bailey as a prospect right now.

The organization needed wingers with scoring potential. They got a 26 year old who if they keep him is likely to put up at least 20 goals. They got a solid winger prospect in Carrier, increasing the chances that one of our wingers with goal scoring upside (Armia, Bailey, Possler, etc) pans out.

The organization gets the much-desired 1st rounder in the 2015 draft. It's not gonna be a lottery pick, but that's a deep draft. They're likely to get a good prospect at that slot, or have the ability to trade up a few spots. There's also a fair chance they get the 2014 1st, and there are several good prospects who may be available at that spot.

It's a good trade. It's not a great trade, but I never expected to get great value for Miller, because of the circumstances. They got at worst fair value, which I'm very relieved about, frankly.

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03-01-2014, 08:02 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Okay, so I disagree, and think that picks #45 (Minnesota is closer to 45 than 50), 60 and 89 (remember, we'd otherwise have this third rounder) should get you 29 in a poor draft year.

So I think it's a wash on all the conditional picks in this deal.

We just trade Miller and Ott for a first, Stewart, and Carrier.

Stewart is worth a second rounder at the deadline next year if we're lucky.

In my mind, that's Miller and Ott for a first and a pair of seconds.

We got ****ed.
Where are you getting 3 picks from? If the Sabres are picking up the 2014 1st, they are only giving up MIN 2nd and BUF 3rd in this draft. So essentially moving up from 45-50 (MIN 2nd rounder) to 26-29 by only giving up pick 61 (BUF 3rd) is a bargain!

Now think of it this way. The Sabres can move up further from 26-29 by packing their 2nd rounder (#30). That should be able to get them into the 13-18 range. They were never going to give up 30, 50, 60 to get into 13-18 range. Now its entirely possible.

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03-01-2014, 08:34 PM
  #44
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http://blues.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/p...?id=2013020918

Blue Notes: Ryan Miller will make his debut in goal, while Steve Ott will debut on a line with Derek Roy and T.J. Oshie.

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03-01-2014, 08:40 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by B U F F A L O View Post
Where are you getting 3 picks from? If the Sabres are picking up the 2014 1st, they are only giving up MIN 2nd and BUF 3rd in this draft. So essentially moving up from 45-50 (MIN 2nd rounder) to 26-29 by only giving up pick 61 (BUF 3rd) is a bargain!

Now think of it this way. The Sabres can move up further from 26-29 by packing their 2nd rounder (#30). That should be able to get them into the 13-18 range. They were never going to give up 30, 50, 60 to get into 13-18 range. Now its entirely possible.
He is getting the 3 picks from the condition that if Miller doesn't re-sign and they don't make the WCF that we get their 2016 3rd.

So MIN 2nd, BUF 3rd and 2016 STL 3rd = 3 picks

And I definitely think those 3 picks gets you in the mid 30s at worst.

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03-01-2014, 08:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
He is getting the 3 picks from the condition that if Miller doesn't re-sign and they don't make the WCF that we get their 2016 3rd.

So MIN 2nd, BUF 3rd and 2016 STL 3rd = 3 picks

And I definitely think those 3 picks gets you in the mid 30s at worst.
There's value in actually having the 1st rather than three picks which theoretically might get you in a similar area. How many teams are really that hot for a mid-late 2nd and two 3rd's?

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03-01-2014, 09:30 PM
  #47
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There's value in actually having the 1st rather than three picks which theoretically might get you in a similar area. How many teams are really that hot for a mid-late 2nd and two 3rd's?
Not to mention one of the 3rd rd picks is in a draft 2 years away.

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03-02-2014, 03:32 AM
  #48
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I wont. I root for buffalo first and always. Miller was garbage overrated anyway.

and no one DESERVES a cup, the best team deserves the cup.

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03-02-2014, 09:37 AM
  #49
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LET'S GO BLUESSSSS !!!!!

Side note for the puck bunnies : Derek Roy is centering their 3rd line.....

So come on...Get on board !!!

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03-02-2014, 11:21 AM
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Gonna take a while to get used to this:


Miller looks pretty damn happy


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