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Old
03-02-2014, 02:43 AM
  #26
Boud
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
Also, I'll be impressed by Tim if he can get more than stick tape for Ville Leino. Trading great assets in Miller and Ott isn't the mark of difficulty.
Did a good job thoo! Likely two first rounders, a good prospect , Halak and Stewart...
Ott is a leader and I get the value of that but the return was great for what I believe he was worth. Then they trade Stewart for two prospects or a pick an a prospect again... In a couple years that will pay off ... A lot

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03-02-2014, 02:44 AM
  #27
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This is like the guy who stole your girlfriend telling you that you were right, she does make good sandwiches.

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03-02-2014, 02:56 AM
  #28
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I won't be surprised if buf wins a cup before we do.

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03-02-2014, 05:07 AM
  #29
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Try and make him smile, that will be a bigger challenge than winning the cup.

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03-02-2014, 06:03 AM
  #30
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I think Tim is a fantastic hockey mind, but I still think his failing as a GM, if he fails, will be the fact that he is just about the farthest thing from a "people person" as I can think of.

I'm not judging "Tim Murray: NHL GM" until there is about 4-5 years under his belt. Trades are one thing, but it's far from the only thing an NHL GM needs to do (or, assign to others to do). If he can get past himself, he'll be one of the league's best, but I'm not going to believe that until I see it.

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03-02-2014, 09:33 AM
  #31
Xspyrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boud View Post
Did a good job thoo! Likely two first rounders, a good prospect , Halak and Stewart...
Ott is a leader and I get the value of that but the return was great for what I believe he was worth. Then they trade Stewart for two prospects or a pick an a prospect again... In a couple years that will pay off ... A lot
?

Jaroslav Halak, G (UFA at the end of the season and probably won't be re-signed unless used as a stop gap for the remaining rebuilding years)
Chris Stewart, F (1 year left at 4.15)
William Carrier, F (struggle to put PPG in the QHMJL as an overager, probably no value)
2015 1st-round pick (Blues pick, should be near 30th)
2016 cond. 3rd-round pick (conditional)

So the value for the Sabres in the package is more like Chris Stewart and a very late 1st round pick in the 2015 draft, likely 30th now that the Blues have Ryan freaking Miller as their goalie

Stewart is a cap dump for the Blues (4.15 for inconsistent production), could turn out good for the Sabres if they re-sign him but I wouldn't bet on it

Return is very meh IMO, I'd rather have 1 good piece than 5 so-so pieces

Yes Miller and Ott are UFAs but the Blues will want to re-sign them, pretty sure they will at least sign one.

It's a Murray, don't get too excited. Tim has been Bryan's paddawan for a while, he learned from the worst!

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Old
03-02-2014, 09:38 AM
  #32
StefanW
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
?

Jaroslav Halak, G (UFA at the end of the season and probably won't be re-signed unless used as a stop gap for the remaining rebuilding years)
Chris Stewart, F (1 year left at 4.15)
William Carrier, F (struggle to put PPG in the QHMJL as an overager, probably no value)
2015 1st-round pick (Blues pick, should be near 30th)
2016 cond. 3rd-round pick (conditional)

So the value for the Sabres in the package is more like Chris Stewart and a very late 1st round pick in the 2015 draft, likely 30th now that the Blues have Ryan freaking Miller as their goalie

Stewart is a cap dump for the Blues (4.15 for inconsistent production), could turn out good for the Sabres if they re-sign him but I wouldn't bet on it

Return is very meh IMO, I'd rather have 1 good piece than 5 so-so pieces

Yes Miller and Ott are UFAs but the Blues will want to re-sign them, pretty sure they will at least sign one.

It's a Murray, don't get too excited. Tim has been Bryan's paddawan for a while, he learned from the worst!
Unless I am mistaken, the 3rd becomes a 1st if Miller re-signs or if the Blues make the Conf final. Thus most likely 2 firsts, which is what the poster said.

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03-02-2014, 09:40 AM
  #33
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Try and make him smile, that will be a bigger challenge than winning the cup.

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03-02-2014, 10:03 AM
  #34
ChocolateLeclaire
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Unless I am mistaken, the 3rd becomes a 1st if Miller re-signs or if the Blues make the Conf final. Thus most likely 2 firsts, which is what the poster said.
Correct. However, Miller has been rumored to want to play on the west coast so he can be close to his wife. It's not a given that it's a guaranteed 1st for him.

And again, it's St. Louis. It's a late first round pick. Now, Tim can flip or package those picks for better value and that's where his measure of being a GM can come from.

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Old
03-02-2014, 10:06 AM
  #35
ChocolateLeclaire
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all i can say is, you lucky ********. you'll have a better team than us in no time.
Serious question. Are you a Senators fan or a Tim Murray fan? You seem to be heartbroken that he's gone and you pine over him like a lost love. If Tim was the greatest thing since sliced bread, why is our team mired in mediocrity? He has as much a thumbprint on this franchise as any GM could. He had autonomy by being the GMs nephew.

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03-02-2014, 10:10 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
Gotta love the moron rodeo that our board has become. Last year Bryan Murray was a genius and Paul Maclean was the greatest coach in franchise history.

This year, Bryan Murray is garbage and Tim Murray is the genius while Maclean is now the worst coach ever.

This board man...this board...
And Richardson... man, that Richardson sure is the real deal. Sens havent had a coach like him in the pipeline since Kurt Kleinendorst.

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03-02-2014, 11:42 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
Serious question. Are you a Senators fan or a Tim Murray fan? You seem to be heartbroken that he's gone and you pine over him like a lost love. If Tim was the greatest thing since sliced bread, why is our team mired in mediocrity? He has as much a thumbprint on this franchise as any GM could. He had autonomy by being the GMs nephew.
I'm a senators hockey fan. Which is why I'm so disappointed timmy is not taking over as gm here like I expected. But considering ownership in each org I get how buf is a much better opportunity for tm.
The people at the top of this org make it harder to be a fan but I am still a fan.
It's just my belief that he will quickly get his team up to our level and then surpass it. He just has an amazing hockey mind. In comparison I don't think much of dorion. Randy lee is great it remains to be seen how capable of a manager he can be.

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03-02-2014, 11:44 AM
  #38
Icelevel
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And Richardson... man, that Richardson sure is the real deal. Sens havent had a coach like him in the pipeline since Kurt Kleinendorst.
I would have hired kleinendorst over Maclean.

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03-02-2014, 12:48 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
I'm a senators hockey fan. Which is why I'm so disappointed timmy is not taking over as gm here like I expected. But considering ownership in each org I get how buf is a much better opportunity for tm.
The people at the top of this org make it harder to be a fan but I am still a fan.
It's just my belief that he will quickly get his team up to our level and then surpass it. He just has an amazing hockey mind. In comparison I don't think much of dorion. Randy lee is great it remains to be seen how capable of a manager he can be.
honestly asking.. What do you know about both tim murray and pierre dorian that makes you rally like one, a "not think much" of the other. I don't know either on a personal level or anything close to that. im "assuming" you do. So what qualities does dorian not have and what qualities does tim have. Seems to me and the majority of the hockey world from what ive read, heard, seen says that they are both very very intelligent hockey people

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03-02-2014, 01:32 PM
  #40
StefanW
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honestly asking.. What do you know about both tim murray and pierre dorian that makes you rally like one, a "not think much" of the other. I don't know either on a personal level or anything close to that. im "assuming" you do. So what qualities does dorian not have and what qualities does tim have. Seems to me and the majority of the hockey world from what ive read, heard, seen says that they are both very very intelligent hockey people
I think Dorian is perfectly fine. However, considering TM got the GM job in Buffalo against a crap load of more experienced competition, I think he was clearly the pick of the litter here.

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03-02-2014, 02:05 PM
  #41
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Unless I am mistaken, the 3rd becomes a 1st if Miller re-signs or if the Blues make the Conf final. Thus most likely 2 firsts, which is what the poster said.
Ok didn't know that as they don't say it on the trade tracker lol (spending much less time on the NHL now). So maybe they will get another "maybe" like Eaves, O'Brien, Noesen, Puempel, etc. It's a good "meh" return then, I'd rather have more quality than quantity but it still is probably what about any GM in the league would have gotten. NHL is not a stupid video game. The guys are not magicians with Jedi mind tricks clicking on buttons. They get what they can based on market value and it really depends with what team you work with rather than anything else, what they have available, their needs, their depth, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
Serious question. Are you a Senators fan or a Tim Murray fan? You seem to be heartbroken that he's gone and you pine over him like a lost love. If Tim was the greatest thing since sliced bread, why is our team mired in mediocrity? He has as much a thumbprint on this franchise as any GM could. He had autonomy by being the GMs nephew.
Getting OT but I take your post to elaborate on a more general reflection. I think that nowadays a big portion of people don't live in reality anymore. Can't blame them, the world is a total mess. Just read on what teens are fed with today (synthetic drugs, for example) or the virtual worlds they live in (Facebook, video games...). It's funny how many 15-20 years old teens told me how mature they are when they never worked for a cent and still live in the cocoon of their parents.

And since you imply that "our team mired in mediocrity", it might reflect the actual opinion of this board on the team... So my question is why would it be the case in the year 3 of the "rebuild plan"? The team is supposed to be a contender already? Is it realistic? Which teams are the example of a such quick turnaround? And without drafting top-5 a few times?

St-Louis might be a good example, but even then, they missed the playoffs 5 times in 6 years and lost in round 1 when they made it and they got to pick 1st, 13th, 4th, 17th and 14th at the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
I'm a senators hockey fan. Which is why I'm so disappointed timmy is not taking over as gm here like I expected. But considering ownership in each org I get how buf is a much better opportunity for tm.
The people at the top of this org make it harder to be a fan but I am still a fan.
It's just my belief that he will quickly get his team up to our level and then surpass it. He just has an amazing hockey mind. In comparison I don't think much of dorion. Randy lee is great it remains to be seen how capable of a manager he can be.
Like I told you before, what you are saying is not based on reality but on your perception and biases as an outsider, (i.e. your opinion) you really have no idea what really goes on behind the scenes... Your opinion would be much more valuable if you worked in upper echelon management for the Sens, or anywhere else to begin with. Basically, your subconscious is building all that for you

I know for a fact that I didn't work for the Sens so I can't really say much but just by logic of the facts, it's seems evident that Tim Murray learned a lot from his uncle Bryan and owns him a lot of his "amazing hockey mind". If you really like Tim Murray (and you have all the right to do that), but it implies that you also like Bryan as a hockey mind, even if you don't recognize it.

Finally, I think it's a great thing that our team has been surrounded with great hockey minds for a while (Murrays, Dorion, Lee, just like Shero, Kekäläinen, etc before). It might pay off down the road, hopefully

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Old
03-02-2014, 02:17 PM
  #42
ChocolateLeclaire
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I think Dorian is perfectly fine. However, considering TM got the GM job in Buffalo against a crap load of more experienced competition, I think he was clearly the pick of the litter here.
If I'm not mistaken, TM was the third choice. One person turned them down and then Chiarelli wouldn't let his assistant interview for the position.

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Old
03-02-2014, 07:36 PM
  #43
StefanW
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
If I'm not mistaken, TM was the third choice. One person turned them down and then Chiarelli wouldn't let his assistant interview for the position.
I hadn't heard that. It seems weird then that he won his first power struggle so easily.

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03-02-2014, 09:05 PM
  #44
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Yeah that was really smooth. Completely disrespect one of the most loved guys to ever lace them up for your team.

Good start Timma.

Buffalo isn't winning a Cup before us.

Tim Murray is nobody.

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Old
03-02-2014, 09:17 PM
  #45
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*insert ascii middle finger*


Seriously, good luck I guess. Hate to see him leave for a division rival but I guess it's not so bad as long as the Sens win a cup before you guys.

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03-02-2014, 09:37 PM
  #46
Icelevel
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Thank you xspyrit. I will make sure to type imo after each word from now on. I appreciate your life lessons. I will print them all and keep them dear to my heart.

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03-02-2014, 09:54 PM
  #47
ChocolateLeclaire
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Thank you xspyrit. I will make sure to type imo after each word from now on. I appreciate your life lessons. I will print them all and keep them dear to my heart.
Cool. You can keep them next to your Tim Murray posters.

Seriously, he politely pointed out that you, like everyone else here, has no idea what the division of tasks were between TM, BM, and Dorian but you like to post your opinion like it's fact. It isn't.

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03-02-2014, 10:03 PM
  #48
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I guess we will never know what exactly happened in Buffalo & why Lafontaine resigned but the irony that it happened while Nolan is the coach is interesting given that he went over the GM Muckler's head in Buffalo & got fired for it himself supposedly & blacklisted.

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03-02-2014, 10:04 PM
  #49
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If I'm not mistaken, TM was the third choice. One person turned them down and then Chiarelli wouldn't let his assistant interview for the position.
Yep, the candidate from Boston was Jim Benning, the Bruins current assistant GM who spent 12 years in the Sabres org as their head of scouting, and it was consistently reported via multiple reliable sources at the time that he was their first choice.

As for the guy who turned them down, IIRC, it was Rick Dudley, who doesn't like being a GM (apparently) and preferred to stay "behind the scenes" with the Habs.

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03-02-2014, 10:19 PM
  #50
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No idea why TM is getting any credit yet anyways. He could easily turn into another Kevin Lowe/Tambo/Doug Maclean/Garth Snow type GM and have a team stuck in a constant rebuild like those people.

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