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Habs offer Subban 7 years, $49 million.

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Old
03-02-2014, 02:41 PM
  #51
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I dunno 8 X 8 seems more realistic!

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03-02-2014, 02:42 PM
  #52
CrAzYNiNe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
So we continue to overpay not only for UFA's, but for our own home grown talent? Price agreed to a Bridge, and signed a fair contract.
Pacioretty signed a more than fair contract.
None of those guys did what Subban did prior to to his bridge deal.

MP played in the NHL and was sent down to the AHL since he couldn't hack it in the NHL prior to his bridge deal.

CP was the starter and lost his job to Halak.

PK came in and became our #1 D prior to his bridge deal.

None of them are comparable.

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Old
03-02-2014, 02:42 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Doughty is a superior defenseman to Subban, though. I think a fair comparison to Subban right now, considering what they both bring and do not bring to the table is Pietrangelo. If AP is worth 6.5, Subban is worth 7. Doughty would be worth 9 - 9.5
Subban is very, very comparable to Doughty. It's almost freakishly weird how similar they are, right down to the advanced stats and all.

It's weird.

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03-02-2014, 02:42 PM
  #54
Kahuna Mallow
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
53.732 million for 7 years
let's get this over with
I see what you did there.

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03-02-2014, 02:43 PM
  #55
SouthernHab
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Anybody feel that Subban might not want to stay in a regressive organization which doesn't seem to want to win the cup all that much? I mean if the guy wants to win cups in his career, he'd be better off in more ambitious, better-run organizations, no?

I'm being completely honest here, we can't just assume that Subban is ours forever and ever - not with how Therrien is coaching the team, not with how Bergevin is running the team. He might very well not want to stick around past UFA.
At some point, a hockey player has to come to the realization that he IS part of the organization and thus has a part of the responsibility regarding the outcomes of games.

Yes, Therrien's system is not taking full advantage of the talent that we have in Montreal.

Who is to say that his experience in another hockey franchise will be better or worse? Obviously he is not thought of highly by Detroit, Boston, St. Louis or Dallas coaching staffs since they were the decision makers at the Olympics.

Subban is not going anywhere. He will sign a contract that is fair to the Habs and to himself.

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03-02-2014, 02:44 PM
  #56
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People shouldn't forget who his agent is either, Donny Meehan is a notorious negotiator and after Subban basically forcing him to let him sign that bridge deal he's not going to be signing any sweetheart deals.

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03-02-2014, 02:44 PM
  #57
Frank Drebin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Subban is very, very comparable to Doughty. It's almost freakishly weird how similar they are, right down to the advanced stats and all.

It's weird.
They are very similar, I agree. Doughty is just a little bit better at everything.

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03-02-2014, 02:45 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
They are very similar, I agree. Doughty is just a little bit better at everything.
Nope, he's not.

He definitely better surrounded and better coached, however.

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03-02-2014, 02:46 PM
  #59
Frank Drebin
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Nope, he's not.

He definitely better surrounded and better coached, however.
He most definitely is, and everyone in the hockey world outside of Montreal knows this.

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Old
03-02-2014, 02:47 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I think even those posters noticed in the last 3 games why Canada didn't trust him. PK is a great player, 7 million a year and Doughty money is more then fair
Hehe, ah yes here's more proof that some habs fans have small memories. Not to mention a propensity to buy into narratives/stories/hype, especially if it's against their own players.

I must say, I also love how you think that 2 games (not 3, unless you think PK was bad yesterday?) where PK was likely still jet lagged mean anything. Not to mention that the mistake on the PP goal happened because Therrien left Subban on the ice for the full 2 min of that PP in the 2nd game of a back to back without a timeout while Subban was jetlagged. Smart of Therrien really, because that doesn't elevate the risk of a player making mistakes at all.

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03-02-2014, 02:48 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by crazyaces View Post
I dunno 8 X 8 seems more realistic!
That's what Kessel gets and I don't think PK should make as much as the #2 goal and points scorer in the NHL. + Subban will only be an rfa, while Kessel was going to be unrestricted at the end of the season.

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03-02-2014, 02:49 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Doughty, Karlsson and Pietrangelo weren't jerked around with bridge deals. Also, they were signed under the last CBA.

Offering 7M for 7 years is a lowball offer considering the bridge deal. I can't imagine PK accepting. I wouldn't if I were him.

EDIT: The fact is that PK was lowballed and forced into a crappy bridge deal with the promise that he had to show more and he'd get his due. When you do that, you lose any and all hope of good faith from the other party and the next deal you are forced to pay top dollars with no discount at all. Unless Subban is a much much better man than me.
Exactly. All three of those guys got those deals coming off their ELC. So right off the bat they are lowered by the fact that they were mostly RFA years whereas PK's will be mostly UFA years.

Then there's cap inflation and the fact that Subban is operating under it's all business attitude since we forced him to take the bridge. Not too mention neither Doughty nor Pieterangelo have won a Norris which Subban has.

Honestly there's no reason for Subban to take this deal. He'd get just as much via arbitration is not more and then he's looking at a UFA payday which would be way higher than this deal.

Somehow we aren't even offering the 8th year as extra incentive. Now where are all the guys who said the bridge deal was great because we'd then have him for 10 years guaranteed

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03-02-2014, 02:50 PM
  #63
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If this is true, it looks like PK has to decide whether he wants to play in Montreal or does he want to cash out. It's his decision to make.

This almost feels like a trial balloon being floated out a couple of days before the trade deadline, just to gauge reactions to what people feel about PK.

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03-02-2014, 02:54 PM
  #64
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subban was low balled with that stupid bridge contract .

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03-02-2014, 02:55 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
The term should have been 8 years and I don't care that 7 is the longest ever. I would be happy with 8 years at $60M or I guess now 7 for $52.5M, but have no problem with $56M for 7 years. The 8 for $8M per that some threw out here seemed to be the right number.
$8M/year is really the most I'd offer him though. Yes he won the Norris but that trophy is all about points these days and both Karlson and Letang were injurd that year. Judging by the last 2 seasons, Subban is a lot like Kovalev. Ridiculously talented, capable of changing a game by himself... But volatile. One game he's a beast and the next he's Mr. Brainfarts. If he's gonna be our #1 D for the next decade, the coaches need to know he's dependable all the time. And the only time PK showed that was when there was Hal Gill reminding him to keep things simple.

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03-02-2014, 02:56 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If this is true, it looks like PK has to decide whether he wants to play in Montreal or does he want to cash out. It's his decision to make.

This almost feels like a trial balloon being floated out a couple of days before the trade deadline, just to gauge reactions to what people feel about PK.
Is it the complete opposite actually.

He made that decision on his last deal when he was ready to sign long term. The habs would have none of it, and were only looking for a bridge deal. Now they need to pay up. They chose that situation. The onus is not on Subban to accept less than he's worth to play in this city with higher taxes and crazy fans. Not after accepting a bridge deal.

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03-02-2014, 02:57 PM
  #67
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If Doughty had 2 rfa years left, he'd get 8.5-9 million. PK will command 7.5-8.5, it's not more complicated than that.

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03-02-2014, 02:59 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
$8M/year is really the most I'd offer him though. Yes he won the Norris but that trophy is all about points these days and both Karlson and Letang were injurd that year. Judging by the last 2 seasons, Subban is a lot like Kovalev. Ridiculously talented, capable of changing a game by himself... But volatile. One game he's a beast and the next he's Mr. Brainfarts. If he's gonna be our #1 D for the next decade, the coaches need to know he's dependable all the time. And the only time PK showed that was when there was Hal Gill reminding him to keep things simple.
Anything to discredit our own guys. Lovely how you buy into general boards drivel like that.

Chara won recently with 44 pts while Green posted Karlsson like numbers.

The Norris is given to the best all around dman. No, you can't win it if you suck offensively. Rightfully so.

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03-02-2014, 03:02 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
So we continue to overpay not only for UFA's, but for our own home grown talent? Price agreed to a Bridge, and signed a fair contract.
Pacioretty signed a more than fair contract.
$8M is no longer an overpayment for a young star defenseman. Like it or not, the rising cap makes these kind of numbers affordable and expected. Had Doughty re-signed today he'd command close to $9M. Pacioretty would get $7M today and Price even more.

If the Habs wanna' win, they have to invest in their top players. Or another team will.

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03-02-2014, 03:04 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
$8M is no longer an overpayment for a young star defenseman. Like it or not, the rising cap makes these kind of numbers affordable and expected. Had Doughty re-signed today he'd command close to $9M. Pacioretty would get $7M today and Price even more.

If the Habs wanna' win, they have to invest in their top players. Or another team will.
This.

I think it's funny how people will support throwing money away at guys like Drewiski/Prust/Moen like it's nothing but will rebel over the thought of paying Subban 1M more than he's worth. I've been guilty of that in the past too.

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03-02-2014, 03:10 PM
  #71
Frank Drebin
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
$8M is no longer an overpayment for a young star defenseman. Like it or not, the rising cap makes these kind of numbers affordable and expected. Had Doughty re-signed today he'd command close to $9M. Pacioretty would get $7M today and Price even more.

If the Habs wanna' win, they have to invest in their top players. Or another team will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
This.

I think it's funny how people will support throwing money away at guys like Drewiski/Prust/Moen like it's nothing but will rebel over the thought of paying Subban 1M more than he's worth. I've been guilty of that in the past too.
Fair enough guys, you're probably right on this. I just think we overrate how good PK is right now. Not saying he won't get there, but he's not there, yet.

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03-02-2014, 03:11 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
You think he should be the highest paid dman in the league?
Same fans that think Eller is worth 10 billion dollars a year....

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03-02-2014, 03:11 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If this is true, it looks like PK has to decide whether he wants to play in Montreal or does he want to cash out. It's his decision to make.

This almost feels like a trial balloon being floated out a couple of days before the trade deadline, just to gauge reactions to what people feel about PK.
The real question (Assuming it's not all made up) is who made the offer public Subban or Bergevin's camp?

If your Subban and you think the GM is purposely releasing the details of the negotiation it can only be for one reason. To get the public to side with him and against Subban. Personally that alone would turn me away from signing long term.

If it's Subban's camp that released the details it's a message that he won't be dicked around this time.

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03-02-2014, 03:11 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
None of those guys did what Subban did prior to to his bridge deal.

MP played in the NHL and was sent down to the AHL since he couldn't hack it in the NHL prior to his bridge deal.

CP was the starter and lost his job to Halak.

PK came in and became our #1 D prior to his bridge deal.

None of them are comparable.
I could have come in and been our #3 on this team and I haven't played hockey since high school!

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Old
03-02-2014, 03:13 PM
  #75
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Fair contract if you ignore that he was low balled like no other comparable in previous contract. He won't accept this unless he's a saint.

Letang got 7.5, Phaneuf got 7.0 recently.

Peitrangelo's contract was straight off his ELC.

Doughty's contract was straight off his ELC and when the cap much much lower.

Subban won't accept 7.0M IMO after he just took a huge pay cut and gave Habs unreal bargain 2 seasons.

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