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Brandon Pirri dealt to Florida for a 3rd (2014) & a 5th (2016)

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03-12-2014, 06:16 PM
  #176
Easton Modano Curve
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Not really.

I always thought there is a right play to make and the wrong play to make. The outcome is not the deciding factor.
I'd tend to agree, but I think there are always exceptions.

Patrick Kane "should have" dumped it in at the red line against the Bruins in Game 6 down 2-1 with 2 mins left when he had all 5 Bruins in front of him and the Hawks wanted to get an extra attacker on. He ended up dangling 4 of them allowing Hawks to get into scoring position. The rest of history...

Still was the "wrong play" but the outcome can't be overlooked.

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03-12-2014, 06:34 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Easton Modano Curve View Post
I'd rather see Keith establish puck possession without getting hit (which he does pretty well) instead of getting creamed and taking himself out of the play. To each his own.
Keith can be physical when he wants to be. IMO, he plays his best hockey when he gets riled up ... but is generally quite effective without being so. He gets burned occasionally from not finishing a check but I've learned to accept that. It is when the other Hawk dmen try to play the same way that I get pissed. They simply don't have his skill to get away with it.
I gotta laugh at certain posters here who have repeatedly claimed they have never had anything against Pirri, yet continue to criticise him even after he has been traded. Certain players will take runs at rookies, especially offensive ones that are on the smaller side. TT will have the same issues when he arrives. I imagine the same folks that point out Pirri trying to avoid the big hits (critically) will be happy when TT does the same and avoids being injured. Small players must be elusive to survive. Such is life in the NHL.


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03-12-2014, 06:35 PM
  #178
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Easton Modano Curve View Post
I'd rather see Keith establish puck possession without getting hit (which he does pretty well) instead of getting creamed and taking himself out of the play. To each his own.
I really don't disagree, but was Keith always so effective? I think not. Remember this in the context of the Pirri avoiding a hit play (unsuccessfully avoided).

If Keith always played this way but was ineffective early in his career, but was allowed to continue this type of play, why wouldn't that apply to Pirri or any other player?

Because it really isn't the right play. Is it?

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03-12-2014, 06:38 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Easton Modano Curve View Post
I'd tend to agree, but I think there are always exceptions.

Patrick Kane "should have" dumped it in at the red line against the Bruins in Game 6 down 2-1 with 2 mins left when he had all 5 Bruins in front of him and the Hawks wanted to get an extra attacker on. He ended up dangling 4 of them allowing Hawks to get into scoring position. The rest of history...

Still was the "wrong play" but the outcome can't be overlooked.
Agreed there are special cases, but how many times does that same play turn into something not quite so positive, as in an odd man rush the other way with a goal?

Making the right decisions in life are not outcome dependent. One cannot continually make the wrong decisions and expect a positive outcome at the end of it all. All you have is making the right decision based on the information available to you at the time. The outcome will be whatever it is.

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03-12-2014, 06:46 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I really don't disagree, but was Keith always so effective? I think not. Remember this in the context of the Pirri avoiding a hit play (unsuccessfully avoided).

If Keith always played this way but was ineffective early in his career, but was allowed to continue this type of play, why wouldn't that apply to Pirri or any other player?

Because it really isn't the right play. Is it?
It seems in some ways today's Hawks have rewritten the book on how to play this game. Red Wings started the trend to less physical, more skilled hockey and Hawks are now the kings. It's no coincidence that Scotty was involved in both cases.

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03-12-2014, 06:46 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Agreed there are special cases, but how many times does that same play turn into something not quite so positive, as in an odd man rush the other way with a goal?

Making the right decisions in life are not outcome dependent. One cannot continually make the wrong decisions and expect a positive outcome at the end of it all. All you have is making the right decision based on the information available to you at the time. The outcome will be whatever it is.
"Making the right decisions in life are not outcome dependent." I agree with this. But the "right decision" might be different for different players. It's hard to compare Duncan Keith, Patrick Kane, and Brandon Pirri. Your suggestion of TT might be more appropriate. That's why I didn't say anything about TT.

Patrick Kane turned it over at the blue line so many times in the 08-09 Detriot series I wanted to puke. If he tried to dangle the Bruins 10 more times it might end up in a turnover more often than not. But establishing the zone with puck possession might offer a better chance at a goal than a dump in. I guess it's a balance.

I see it like giving the batter in baseball the green light when the count is 3 balls and no strikes. The "right play" is to take a pitch. But a manager will give his best player the green light.


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Old
03-12-2014, 06:51 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I really don't disagree, but was Keith always so effective? I think not. Remember this in the context of the Pirri avoiding a hit play (unsuccessfully avoided).

If Keith always played this way but was ineffective early in his career, but was allowed to continue this type of play, why wouldn't that apply to Pirri or any other player?

Because it really isn't the right play. Is it?
Keith was allowed to play this way on the 05-06 Blackhawks because they were rebuilding. Pirri wasn't allowed to play this way in 13-14 because the Blackhawks were contending for a Cup.

I don't think the 05-06 version of Keith would have had the leash he had back then if he was called up as a rookie today. See Nick Leddy.

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Old
03-12-2014, 06:59 PM
  #183
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Duncan Keith wouldn't see the ice as a rookie on this team. Guy was Kris Versteeg bad with the turnovers.

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03-12-2014, 07:32 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
You mean like Kane and Keith do and TT will?
I understand your point, and won't quote all the succeeding posts.

However, with that Pirri play, there was that obvious fraction of a second delay in his stride, which put him off balance, and set him up for the hit.

I believe that both Kane and Keith would have skated hard down the wall and taken the puck with them on that kind of play, probably getting grazed or inadequately checked.

I agree that both (who knows yet what TT really will do) of them more commonly either poke at the puck, or secondarily engage a board scrum and retrieve the puck from between the skates of others (though Keith does routinely get hit behind the goal line to make plays), than willingly engage primarily in the scrum.

What I believe is that Pirri needs to regain his confidence at the NHL level, lost after constantly skating on eggshells during his time under Quenneville. When he does, he'll look much better. I'm hoping he succeeds with Florida, if only to prove that Q can be an imbecile with his judgmental inflexible pigeonholing of some players.

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03-14-2014, 07:24 AM
  #185
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Nice goal last night plus an assist on Hayes' goal. Happy for the kid.

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03-14-2014, 08:16 AM
  #186
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Nice goal last night plus an assist on Hayes' goal. Happy for the kid.
Kostka also with a goal. 4 point night for recent ex Hawks.

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03-14-2014, 01:29 PM
  #187
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He's had 3 points in his last two games, he's starting to heat up. This may be the point in which Bowman starts to wish Q could've just played him...

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03-14-2014, 05:40 PM
  #188
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Brandon Pirri did play under Q. When he was playing well, he got ice-time. When he wasn't creating anything, he played less or didn't play all. He started out well, and ended with a huge fizzle.

Again, Pirri's play determined his future with this team. He didn't play well enough to cut it. Go prove everyone wrong or right in Florida. They won't be an easy to crack next year, as a centre.

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03-14-2014, 06:45 PM
  #189
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Brandon Pirri did play under Q. When he was playing well, he got ice-time. When he wasn't creating anything, he played less or didn't play all. He started out well, and ended with a huge fizzle.

Again, Pirri's play determined his future with this team. He didn't play well enough to cut it. Go prove everyone wrong or right in Florida. They won't be an easy to crack next year, as a centre.
13 games 13 or more minutes 7 pt

15 games less than 13 minutes 4pts

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03-14-2014, 07:17 PM
  #190
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http://thethirdmanin.com/2014/03/14/...-center-depth/

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Old
03-14-2014, 07:36 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by HockeySensible View Post
Brandon Pirri did play under Q. When he was playing well, he got ice-time. When he wasn't creating anything, he played less or didn't play all. He started out well, and ended with a huge fizzle.

Again, Pirri's play determined his future with this team. He didn't play well enough to cut it. Go prove everyone wrong or right in Florida. They won't be an easy to crack next year, as a centre.
Versteeg: 2 goals in his last 26 games
Saad: 2 goals in his last 10 games; 0 goals in 11 games between 1/5 and 1/28
Sharp: 1 goal in his last 10 games
Shaw: 1 goal in 14 games between 1/17 and 3/4; 1 goal in 13 games between 12/14 and 1/11
Kruger: 1 goal in 27 games between 11/25 and 1/19
Bickell: 3 goals in 28 games between 10/28 and 1/28
Smith: 2 goals in 28 games between 11/3 and 12/30
Pirri: 0 goals in 12 games between 11/14 and 2/3 (but 6 goals in his first 17 games of the season just preceding those 12 games)

Just about every player on the Hawks has gone through prolonged cold spells. The only differences between Pirri and those other players are status on the team and defined roles for the other players. From where I sit, Pirri was never given a defined role combined with a prolonged chance to work within that role.

Note that I do realize there is more to hockey than goals, and others on this team bring different skills and strengths than just offense, but his lack of production (with sometimes limited ice time) over those last 12 games seems to be the thing that most people here point to as the reason Pirri was sent packing.

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03-14-2014, 08:44 PM
  #192
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Versteeg: 2 goals in his last 26 games
Saad: 2 goals in his last 10 games; 0 goals in 11 games between 1/5 and 1/28
Sharp: 1 goal in his last 10 games
Shaw: 1 goal in 14 games between 1/17 and 3/4; 1 goal in 13 games between 12/14 and 1/11
Kruger: 1 goal in 27 games between 11/25 and 1/19
Bickell: 3 goals in 28 games between 10/28 and 1/28
Smith: 2 goals in 28 games between 11/3 and 12/30
Pirri: 0 goals in 12 games between 11/14 and 2/3 (but 6 goals in his first 17 games of the season just preceding those 12 games)

Just about every player on the Hawks has gone through prolonged cold spells. The only differences between Pirri and those other players are status on the team and defined roles for the other players. From where I sit, Pirri was never given a defined role combined with a prolonged chance to work within that role.

Note that I do realize there is more to hockey than goals, and others on this team bring different skills and strengths than just offense, but his lack of production (with sometimes limited ice time) over those last 12 games seems to be the thing that most people here point to as the reason Pirri was sent packing.
The difference being that Pirri is significantly worse defensively than every player you listed. This isn't rocket science. Had Pirri actually worked, and developed his defensive game he would have been afforded the luxury of working through his slumps.

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03-14-2014, 09:06 PM
  #193
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The difference being that Pirri is significantly worse defensively than every player you listed. This isn't rocket science. Had Pirri actually worked, and developed his defensive game he would have been afforded the luxury of working through his slumps.
Worse defensively than Bickell? Puhleeze. And he's a rookie trying to find his way at the NHL level.

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03-14-2014, 09:47 PM
  #194
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No rookies have ever struggled in the NHL with 30 career games played.

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03-16-2014, 09:43 PM
  #195
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5 points in 7 games with the panthers. Really think this will turn out to be a bad move by the organization in the long run.

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03-16-2014, 10:22 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Worse defensively than Bickell? Puhleeze. And he's a rookie trying to find his way at the NHL level.
He's an NHL rookie that had 3 years in the minors to work on the one part of his game that needed serious improvement (and that the Hawks stressed he needed to work on), and he only ever improved marginally in that area. His two-way play is below-average, that's not debatable. If he proves talented enough to be able to score his way into a productive and prolonged NHL career than good for him.

He wasn't working out here and there's a better option on the way. He was moved to a team that wanted him and the Hawks got a couple picks in return.

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03-16-2014, 10:28 PM
  #197
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His defensive issues were and continue to be overblown

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03-16-2014, 10:39 PM
  #198
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That guy is on the Rockford beat so he will always be biased towards IceHogs players. Just human nature.

He's talking about our lack of center depth and yet we have Toews, Kruger, Shaw, Teravainen, Smith(in spots) all 26 and under. Where is the huge demand for centers?

Meanwhile we have 2 1st line wingers on the wrong side of 30 and our top pairing as well. He seems very bitter that Teuvo will get a shot without proving himself in Rockford... Well, he's proven himself in the AHL of Europe and then some.

Also, he complains about developing Pirri into an NHLer without being compensated fairly... Well, when reports are that Pirri demanded a trade your hands are tied. His value submarines. Anyways, we returned a top 65 pick and a 5th rounder... Better return than Hemsky had. Factoring in the rumored trade demand and the fact that he has so little NHL experience, I'd say Stan did pretty well.

Finally, he talks about Lalonde and "aw shucks, we used to have AHL players graduate to the Hawks all the time". That's a positive development! He's writing from a Rockford perspective about the hawks. From the hawks perspective, less turnover is better.

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03-16-2014, 10:41 PM
  #199
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He's an NHL rookie that had 3 years in the minors to work on the one part of his game that needed serious improvement (and that the Hawks stressed he needed to work on), and he only ever improved marginally in that area.
That is pretty disingenuous. Pirri has improved quite a bit defensively since he first got to Rockford. His D as a rookie in the AHL was a total mess. He didn't back check much, didn't know how to use his stick well, and routinely lost track of his man in the d-zone. His D-zone play this year (both in the NHL and AHL) was 10 times better than it was 2 years ago and much improved from last year.

He is still a below average guy defensively, but so are a lot of 21 year old players.

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03-16-2014, 10:44 PM
  #200
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His defensive issues were and continue to be overblown
Absolutely. Speaking from someone who has actually watched Pirri down there and develop, his defense (and skating which he was terrible at comming in) has come leaps and bounds. Now is he a great two way player? Definitely not. He tries, but that is not his game. He isn't terrible by any stretch either. Kid has done everything asked of him to try and make it to the show. From getting stronger in the summer to watching extra film to study. He was the one who asked Ted Dent to play on the PK.

IMO anyways, Pirri, although a very nice/cool kid, was a bit of a prima donna. (from his comments after being sent down to him milking his knee injury which even Rockford fans believed he was doing) I still don't believe Q is a fan of his skating either at the center position. Only reason Handzus is still there because of his favoritism to veteran players, and his defensive game. (as well as his playoff run)

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