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Old
03-03-2014, 08:40 AM
  #26
83DIZ65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
What do you want to see happen on trade deadline day or prior to it?

Personally(If we are buyers):

In: Ehrhoff(top 4 D), Moulson(top 6 F) and another speedy top 6er type.

Out: Michalek, Phillips, Greening
This.....make the other top 6er Stewart..... dump the old guys for picks and prospects to replace the one we cough up to get moulson ehrhoff and stewart

also try to move corvo.....take a bag of pucks if u have to....

Proposal:
To Ottawa:
Moulson
Ehrhoff
Stewart

To Buffalo:
Prince
Hoffman
Cowen
Greening
2015 2nd
And Sens work out something to eat the cap penalty the Sabres would otherwise be stuck with upon moving Ehrhoff.

Michalek to LA for a 2nd
Phillips to Colorado for a 2nd
Corvo to?????? for a 7th

This is a step forward onall accounts we dont blow our rebuild and we get better immediately.....


Last edited by 83DIZ65: 03-03-2014 at 08:49 AM.
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Old
03-03-2014, 08:43 AM
  #27
SixthSens
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Originally Posted by Indy on the Road View Post
I'm ok with what Murray has been saying... buying a player with term left. They aren't deep enough at forward or defense, so I'm down with adding either (or both).

Also, any pending UFA should be shopped to see if it would be worthwhile.

That seems counter-intuitive, and maybe in a way it is.
Agreed. We're not contending this season despite what Melnyk thinks.

I'd be alright with dealing a few prospects for a player that will be with us for a few seasons. If we can get good value for our pending FA's then I'd say go for it.

I also wouldn't mind retaining Michalek though, as I don't believe he'll be asking for a lot given his recent play and I think he'd be ok playing a third line role.

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Old
03-03-2014, 08:47 AM
  #28
Holdurbreathe
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
What do I REALLY want?

I want a sign from the organization that this team is going to be committed to icing a competitive, "honest-chance-at-a-cup" team over the long term, and are not complacent to just be a bubble team for the next 15 years, spending 20% less than everyone else, scraping by as the plucky, perpetually-retooling team that is consistently selling itself as a "young-up-and-comer" while being perfectly content to rest on the laurels of winning a single playoff round every other year just to get the extra 3-to-5 gates' worth of revenue.
Pretty much this ^

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Old
03-03-2014, 08:58 AM
  #29
Mika Zibanejad
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I wanna trade cowen for crosby. ill settle for ovechkin.

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03-03-2014, 08:58 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by sens83 View Post
Our D-core is bad.

Getting a player like Ehrhoff would open up so many more opportunities for Karlsson, agreed. You now have two lines with offensive weapons on it. I think Ceci can mature into an Ehrhoff. I'd rather see us get a shutdown defensive guy similar to Methot.

That said, if you have to give up a player like Wiercioch to get Ehrhoff, you do it. Then you have THREE offensive weapons in Karlsson, Ehrhoff, and Ceci. Pair them with Method, Cowen, Gryba. Not bad imo. I'd like to flip Cowen, if his value is anything, and get a more veteran defensive defenseman.
I find it interesting that Sens fans want Ehrhoff and Moulson, yet what have these two done to change Buffalo's last place standing?

Not suggesting Ehrhoff wouldn't help the Sens, he would. The question is at what cost?

I also don't think Moulson would make much of a difference on this team, primarily because Spezza just isn't playing at a level that will make his wingers successful.

So the likely result of acquiring Moulson would be just another winger that "didn't fit" like Ryan et al.

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03-03-2014, 09:11 AM
  #31
sens83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I find it interesting that Sens fans want Ehrhoff and Moulson, yet what have these two done to change Buffalo's last place standing?

Not suggesting Ehrhoff wouldn't help the Sens, he would. The question is at what cost?

I also don't think Moulson would make much of a difference on this team, primarily because Spezza just isn't playing at a level that will make his wingers successful.

So the likely result of acquiring Moulson would be just another winger that "didn't fit" like Ryan et al.
Ehrhoff has the POTENTIAL to help. I would argue that he hasn't shown his full potential in Buffalo. Is it lack of effort or being surrounded by a sucky team? I'm not sure, I would tend to lean toward the latter. Ehrhoff isn't a "star", he's a complementary player. Kind of like Gonchar was. Karlsson is the star, he's the guy that can take the game on his back and change it. Ehrhoff is a support guy. That's how I view it. I think he can succeed better in Ottawa than in Buffalo because he's expected to be the #1 in Buffalo, being as though Myers has been eating corn the long way.

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Old
03-03-2014, 09:57 AM
  #32
guyzeur
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I want to add speed:

We can't play if we don't have a fast team.

Either we have ton of skills and players can carry the puck in (top 2 lines) or we dump it and we get it back.

We are a tad slow on Defense after Ceci, Methot and EK. At least one more here.

And somebody that can put the puck in the net.

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Old
03-03-2014, 10:07 AM
  #33
Holdurbreathe
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Originally Posted by sens83 View Post
Ehrhoff has the POTENTIAL to help. I would argue that he hasn't shown his full potential in Buffalo. Is it lack of effort or being surrounded by a sucky team? I'm not sure, I would tend to lean toward the latter. Ehrhoff isn't a "star", he's a complementary player. Kind of like Gonchar was. Karlsson is the star, he's the guy that can take the game on his back and change it. Ehrhoff is a support guy. That's how I view it. I think he can succeed better in Ottawa than in Buffalo because he's expected to be the #1 in Buffalo, being as though Myers has been eating corn the long way.
I would suggest Ehrhoff is doing in Buffalo exactly what he did in Vancouver, which is why the Canucks let him go to free agency.

Ehrhoff plays the game soft, so while adding him would likely improve the team offensively, not at all convinced the Sens would be better defensively where the D needs improvement.

A D-corps consisting of Karlsson, Methot, Ceci, Ehroff, Wiercoich and Gryba wouldn't be overly successful against the top teams in either conference IMO.

While this group would be fairly mobile, in general they just aren't equipped to handle the physical challenges.

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03-03-2014, 10:08 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
I want to add speed:

We can't play if we don't have a fast team.

Either we have ton of skills and players can carry the puck in (top 2 lines) or we dump it and we get it back.

We are a tad slow on Defense after Ceci, Methot and EK. At least one more here.

And somebody that can put the puck in the net.
moulson and ehrhoff have good speed.....and stewart isnt slow...

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Old
03-03-2014, 10:10 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I would suggest Ehrhoff is doing in Buffalo exactly what he did in Vancouver, which is why the Canucks let him go to free agency.

Ehrhoff plays the game soft, so while adding him would likely improve the team offensively, not at all convinced the Sens would be better defensively where the D needs improvement.

A D-corps consisting of Karlsson, Methot, Ceci, Ehroff, Wiercoich and Gryba wouldn't be overly successful against the top teams in either conference IMO.

While this group would be fairly mobile, in general they just aren't equipped to handle the physical challenges.
then move weircioch for a big nasty physical guy.....or call up boro...hes nasty and physical...

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Old
03-03-2014, 10:24 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by dizimal View Post
then move weircioch for a big nasty physical guy.....or call up boro...hes nasty and physical...
Saying it and doing it are two completely different things.

Name the big nasty capable defensemen in the NHL, then tell me which of these guys are available?

While this thread is a fun exercise in dream big and hope, it has little to do with reality.

Big mobile physical competent D are in demand in 30 cities in the NHL, there just aren't many available, if any. It is exactly why Ceci is so valuable already and will likely become as irreplaceable as EK in the near future.

While the Sens could move Wiercoich, he won't return a Dman that fills the need nor is Boro the guy or he would be in Ottawa now.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 03-03-2014 at 11:11 AM.
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Old
03-03-2014, 10:29 AM
  #37
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Sit tight and let it play out. Don't trade kids.

Trade big names with the exception of Karlsson in the summer. Sign cheap and fast defensive players in the summer. Pray that one or more of our kids becomes a star.

Of course, I really think the team will probably waste young players and picks trying to squeeze into the playoffs.

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03-03-2014, 10:41 AM
  #38
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7 points out of a playoff spot with a month to go and we are "easily buyers".

Sigh...

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Old
03-03-2014, 10:53 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Quo View Post
Find a decent return for the UFA's. If we get anybody, get guys with term or negotiate immediately with any incoming UFA's. Indifferent on who goes/who stays. Will look at it in balance of who comes back.



"A lot of teams...," we're not the only ones. Tight market would translate into not many deals getting done I would think.
Other teams need dollar in dollar out deals because they don't have cap space. We need it because our owner won't spend money despite crowing to the media every chance he can that we are a contender.

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Old
03-03-2014, 11:13 AM
  #40
Holdurbreathe
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Originally Posted by Proust View Post
7 points out of a playoff spot with a month to go and we are "easily buyers".

Sigh...
Correction, 3 points out though Detroit has a game in hand.

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Old
03-03-2014, 11:19 AM
  #41
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Out :

- Phillips (hope he retires or goes with a contender for a chance at the cup, we already have a lot of defensive depth for the bottom 5-7 where he should play. That's the spots for the Young Guns. But what we need right now is prime Phillips)

- Michalek (he needs a change of scenery, we need a change in the top-6, doesn't fit with Spezza anymore. So many injuries, sucks for him. UFA at the end of the year)

- Greening (I have always been very vocal about the "plays die on his stick", will start to have a bigger salary next year. And for now, we need all the bucks we can save. To justify his salary he needs to produce over 30 pts. With all the prospects coming up, no spots for him to do that)

- Hoffman : back to Bingo

- Corvo (isn't needed anymore so if we can get a pick, let's do it. If not, no big deal, keep him as policy insurance)

In :

- A steady veteran D-man in prime years (someone like Methot for example)

- A two-way veteran top-6 forward who can play with Spezza and Stone. Another MacArthur type ideally (late 20's) or ironically, a prime Michalek

- Mark Stone : less speed than Greening but a lot more hockey IQ and offensive skill. If our prospects, we need them to graduate and faster we will reach contender status

- Da Costa : the guy should be in the NHL, his skill, vision, IQ and poise is high end.


===================================

Off-season/training camp :

- Condra gets traded when Lazar or Prince are ready to graduate. We still need his PK and defensive ability for now

- Trade Hoffman after the Bingo season, takes too long for him to have any kind of impact at the NHL level. Can probably play in the NHL but we will have better options IMO (Lazar, Puempel, Prince, Petersson, Schneider, etc.)

- Trade Gryba, Borowiecki and Claesson are almost ready

or we go all in and trade Spezza (I mean what would be a thread on this board without Trade Spezza?)


===================================

Line-up :

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
MacArthur2-Spezza-Stone
Conacher-Da-Costa-Zibanejad *1
Condra-Smith-Neil *2

Methot-Karlsson
Methot2-Ceci
Cowen/Wiercioch-Gryba *3

Anderson
Lehner

*1 Zibanejad takes face-offs too, they can interchange positions in-play
*2 shutdown physical line
*3 Let Cowen and Wiercioch the sophomores battle for ice time, and learn the NHL game sheltered a bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixthSens View Post
Agreed. We're not contending this season despite what Melnyk thinks.
Whatever Melnyk thinks, he wants to sell tickets... Even if he didn't think that we have a chance in the playoffs or even get in, you need to keep a level of hope for your consumers. It's as simple as that and people discuss it way too much for nothing.


Last edited by Xspyrit: 03-03-2014 at 11:33 AM.
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Old
03-03-2014, 11:25 AM
  #42
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[QUOTE=Quo;80860107 "A lot of teams...," we're not the only ones. Tight market would translate into not many deals getting done I would think.[/QUOTE]

We're probably the only team in the bottom 10 of spending that cant add more than 1 dollar.

A lot of teams cant add more because they are already spending so much.

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03-03-2014, 11:36 AM
  #43
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All you guys saying you would trade Cowen now make me hope and pray that none of you ever get a job with the Senators.
blah blah Jared Cowen future superstar.

Drew Doughty scored 74 points in 58 games as a 17 year old in the OHL on a really awful Guelph Storm team. He has excelled as LA's #1 D-man, a role he took on as a 19 year old.

Cowen got 30 points in 58 games as a 19 year old on a good team in the WHL. He's never done anything to suggest he'll even be an average puck mover from the back end.

A more reasonable, albeit still completely pie-in-the-sky comparison might be Shea Weber, but Weber has better OHL numbers and was actually good in his rookie and sophomore seasons, not the unmitigated disaster Cowen has been this year.

After watching him play ~60 games this year without a single shred of improvement, I'm betting against Cowen becoming Shea Weber 2.0. I don't think it's worth $7.5 million over the next 2 years to have this guy perform the Aristocrats on ice in the hopes that something magically clicks for him.

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Old
03-03-2014, 11:49 AM
  #44
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As for what I'd like to happen:

Trade for picks: Michalek, Cowen, Neil

Trading block: Phillips, Conacher, Greening, Da Costa, Petersson, Prince and any other prospect they're unwilling to promote

Basically they should trim a lot of the dead weight and replace it with some of their prospect depth.

Also for the love of god, DO NOT trade next year's 1st rd pick.

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03-03-2014, 12:04 PM
  #45
Xspyrit
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All you guys saying you would trade Cowen now make me hope and pray that none of you ever get a job with the Senators.

his value is quite literally at rock bottom now. What type of sense does it make to trade him now?

Why not take a step back and ask yourself why he's struggling so much? Anyone remember how much Drew Doughty sucked when he held out of training camp? It wasn't until January when he finally got back to his level of play, and that's Drew freaking Doughty.

Jared Cowen held out of camp, after spending an entire summer just rehabbing his hip, and not getting into hockey shape. Can anyone seriously be surprised that he's struggling now? He's weaker than before, and missed training camp so he's been behind all season.

At this point, it makes much more sense to just limit his minutes for this season, have him work very closely with the training staff over the summer, and see how he does next season. If he still sucks then, well fine, dump him for a bag of pucks, but until then, it's stupid to move him now for what would basically be next to nothing.

Let's be honest. This team isn't winning the Cup this year. It's more important to take a longer term approach right now, and that means maximsing assets over the long term and not going for reactionary short term fixes that could hurt the team long term.
Personally, I'm hoping Cowen is traded at his lowest value so this fanbase can get a bit of a lesson. Living in Montreal, I have seen SO MANY players get shipped out quickly to have great careers elsewhere... Robidas, Beauchemin, Hainsey, Ribeiro.. to name a few, oh and Patrick Roy. And God knows how much I love hockey fan tears.

But it won't happen with Murray. He knows you don't trade Cowen now if at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arglebargle View Post
blah blah Jared Cowen future superstar.

Drew Doughty scored 74 points in 58 games as a 17 year old in the OHL on a really awful Guelph Storm team. He has excelled as LA's #1 D-man, a role he took on as a 19 year old.

Cowen got 30 points in 58 games as a 19 year old on a good team in the WHL. He's never done anything to suggest he'll even be an average puck mover from the back end.

A more reasonable, albeit still completely pie-in-the-sky comparison might be Shea Weber, but Weber has better OHL numbers and was actually good in his rookie and sophomore seasons, not the unmitigated disaster Cowen has been this year.

After watching him play ~60 games this year without a single shred of improvement, I'm betting against Cowen becoming Shea Weber 2.0. I don't think it's worth $7.5 million over the next 2 years to have this guy perform the Aristocrats on ice in the hopes that something magically clicks for him.
You're looking at it wrong. Cowen will be in between Coburn and Seabrook. Not Weber and Doughty where did you get that?

Oh and if you say "After watching him play ~60 games this year without a single shred of improvement", let me question your hockey analytics ability

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03-03-2014, 12:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
You're looking at it wrong. Cowen will be in between Coburn and Seabrook. Not Weber and Doughty where did you get that?
I got Doughty from the guy who mentioned Drew Doughty. Also Coburn and Seabrook also have much better CHL stats than Cowen, haven't had brutal hip and knee injuries, and neither has ever looked as bad as Cowen does this year.

Everyone who's high on Cowen is completely discounting the fact that he's been horrendous this year. These aren't "young player struggles", he's just slow, bad at puckhandling and doesn't know what to do on the ice.

Quote:
Oh and if you say "After watching him play ~60 games this year without a single shred of improvement", let me question your hockey analytics ability
I'd have to question whether you've been watching the games if you disagree. His last 2 games are the worst I've ever seen from a sens D-man.

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Old
03-03-2014, 01:13 PM
  #47
ReginKarlssonLehner
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
What do I REALLY want?

I want a sign from the organization that this team is going to be committed to icing a competitive, "honest-chance-at-a-cup" team over the long term, and are not complacent to just be a bubble team for the next 15 years, spending 20% less than everyone else, scraping by as the plucky, perpetually-retooling team that is consistently selling itself as a "young-up-and-comer" while being perfectly content to rest on the laurels of winning a single playoff round every other year just to get the extra 3-to-5 gates' worth of revenue.
What you're looking for is trading of the old core, stock-piling young assets that would build with the young core we already have and making a run after 2 years for a long-time.

Silly, Bonk. We're competing this year!

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