HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Edmonton re-signs Ben Scrivens [2 Years/$2.3 million AAV]

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-03-2014, 02:29 PM
  #101
leova
Registered User
 
leova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 500
exactly, ~2mil is a REASONABLE number for a backup. Some play better/worse, but considering the NHL's financial situation and Cap status, 2mil for a backup is totally fine

Is 2.3 higher than it could be? Maybe, but arguing over 300k here and there is stupid

leova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 02:41 PM
  #102
McDeathbyCheerios
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leova View Post
exactly, ~2mil is a REASONABLE number for a backup. Some play better/worse, but considering the NHL's financial situation and Cap status, 2mil for a backup is totally fine

Is 2.3 higher than it could be? Maybe, but arguing over 300k here and there is stupid
The cap is also increasing so players will continue to be signed for more.

McDeathbyCheerios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 03:27 PM
  #103
leova
Registered User
 
leova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathbyCheerios View Post
The cap is also increasing so players will continue to be signed for more.
exactly, back in the day people getting $10mil contracts was UNHEARD OF!
...fast forward to today, and rookies getting multi-million deals for 0 current production is standard, backups make $2mil a year, and Fourth-liners are millionaires

crazy

leova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 03:33 PM
  #104
T M L
Registered User
 
T M L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,486
vCash: 500
This is a good deal for EDM.

Scrivens is a solid goalie! He is very underrated.

Toronto never should have given him up for Bernier. Bad move, that is now biting them in the ***.

T M L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 03:38 PM
  #105
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,555
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leova View Post
exactly, ~2mil is a REASONABLE number for a backup. Some play better/worse, but considering the NHL's financial situation and Cap status, 2mil for a backup is totally fine

Is 2.3 higher than it could be? Maybe, but arguing over 300k here and there is stupid
Especially if he's somewhat young and has starter potential. Scrivens is 27 and is putting up crazy numbers. Who knows if he has the ability to be consistent... but for 2.3m, there's no risk in paying him to see what he can do.

__________________
I've been looking for trouble... but trouble hasn't been cooperating!
Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 03:42 PM
  #106
Philly85
Raps'
 
Philly85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 13,119
vCash: 500
I was there for his 59 save shutout vs SJ. You knew right there they had get him a deal.


Last edited by Philly85: 03-03-2014 at 04:05 PM.
Philly85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 03:51 PM
  #107
LTIR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,157
vCash: 300
Still leads the league in sav% and is top 3 in GAA ..
Pretty impressive considering the D that plays in front of him..

LTIR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 03:53 PM
  #108
oilerbear
Registered User
 
oilerbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek_physique View Post
I dont understand this move....unless they can afford paying a backup $2mill next year?

There are people out there who think wins are a measure of a goalie.
I guess they believe goalies can drive the net and roof a goal.
Goals for being 50% of winning.

There are People out there who think GA is all about the goalie.

60% of the variance is Shot count. League average being 29 shots.
with a defence influenced range of 24 to 34 shots/gm by team.

Another factor is save % which is dependent on Location of Shot influenced by Box D play 0-25 ft and Forward high zone play >25ft.
The expected league average for shot success rate.
0-10 feet from net scores 17-18% of the time
10-20 feet 23-24%
20-30 feet 8-9%
> 30ft 3-4%
really good dmen keep the shots on the perimeter. allowing a low shot count in the High % areas.

So Save% is a partial measure of a goalies ability. you really want to look at there save % in the above league average shooting % areas. 0-20 ft.
The chances area.
you want the best at that.

Lets look at the top 10 Save% goalies.

#1 Scrivens .934
0-10 15.0%
10-20 ft 9.9%
20-30 6.5%
>30 3.8%

#2 Harding .933
0-10 12.0%
10-20 ft 16.7%
20-30 4.2%
>30 3.8%

#3 Bishop .932
0-10 11.7%
10-20 10.2%
20-30 10.5%
>30 2.4%

#4 Rask .927
0-10 11.1%
10-20 13.2%
20-30 8.1%
>30 3.0%

#5 Khobodin .927
0-10 20%
10-20 10.3%
20-30 9.8%
>30 2.8%

#6 Price .925
0-10 17%
10-20 11.9%
20-30 9.7%
>30 3.0%

#7 Varlamov .925
0-10 16.3%
10-20 12.2%
20-30 7.5%
>30 2.4%

#8 Bernier .924
0-10 14.7%
10-20 13.4%
20-30 10.9%
>30 2.7%

#9 Lack .924
0-10 23.5%
10-20 14.3%
20-30 4.5%
>30 3.4%

#10 Miller .923
0-10 14.4%
10-20 18.4%
20-30 10.2%
>30 2.9%

#10 Schnieder .923
0-10 15.5%
10-20 16.9%
20-30 7.3%
>30 2.9%

Scrivens years in Toronto, LA, Edm
0-10 13.7%
10-20 15.1%
20-30 10.1%
>30 4.0%

Back-up?

Riptide: Scrivens Toronto, LAK, Edm numbers are 3 years of start him please!


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 03-03-2014 at 08:28 PM. Reason: flame
oilerbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 04:05 PM
  #109
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,555
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
The guy has made JUST over half a million dollars for 4 or 5 years now. And all of a sudden he's worth almost quadruple that number? No. Way. He hasn't shown enough to prove that he deserves better than Josh Harding and Braden Holtby and as much as Ben Bishop and Michael Neuvirth? I certainly don't think so.

1.5-1.7 would've been perfectly reasonable.
Crosby made 950k for 3 seasons, then was suddenly worth 9.1 times that?! See how stupid that argument is? What his old contract was has absolutely no bearing on what his new one will be. If I go to my boss looking for a raise, I don't tell him, well I made 60k last year, so now I want 65k... I show him what others in my field are making (Bishop is a perfect comparable), and go I want something that's similar to that. If that's 65k, then fine. But if that's 95k, then I want something a lot closer to that, then what I'm currently making. There are of course other factors (family situation, location, etc) that all come into play when deciding on a job. But my point that ones current wage has no bearing on ones new wage is still very applicable.

Josh Harding took a discount to stay in Minny. Not a comparable contract.

So despite the fact that he took his game to another level this season (26 games, 2.02 GAA, 0.934 %, vs 12/13 20 games, 2.69 GAA, 0.915%) he's not worth the same as what some of the other show me contracts are worth?

He's played 55% of the games Bishop's played, but has almost identical numbers.

Bishop had also played a total of 54 NHL games over a span of 4 seasons (with a season high of 22 in 12/13) where he had worse numbers then Scrivens when he was signed to his contract.

It's a show me contract, and is one that has a TON of comparables to what other goalies in the same situation signed. It's projected to be 0.032% of next season's cap.

And just for the record... this is a great contract for him and the Oilers. If he does well, then Edmonton wins, and Scrivens can get paid once this contract expires, and Scrivens has proven himself as a starter. If he's really nothing other than a decent backup, then Edmonton isn't on the hook for any large amount for any real term.

Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 04:10 PM
  #110
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
 
RandV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,377
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by leova View Post
exactly, back in the day people getting $10mil contracts was UNHEARD OF!
...fast forward to today, and rookies getting multi-million deals for 0 current production is standard, backups make $2mil a year, and Fourth-liners are millionaires

crazy
Man I really hope you're being sarcastic, otherwise you need to look back farther.

Anyways reasonable deal for Edmonton. He's likely not the long term solution but when you don't have a blue chip guy around Scriven's is decent to create a 1A/1B situation where just maybe he'll break out as a legit starter.

RandV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 04:20 PM
  #111
oilerbear
Registered User
 
oilerbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by T M L View Post
This is a good deal for EDM.

Scrivens is a solid goalie! He is very underrated.

Toronto never should have given him up for Bernier. Bad move, that is now biting them in the ***.
Scrivens years in Toronto, LA, Edm
0-10 13.7%
10-20 15.1%
20-30 10.1%
>30 4.0%

Bernier during that time
0-10 16.1%
10-20 15.5%
20-30 11.5%
>30 2.7%

Bernier is 25 years old.


I thought he was alot younger than Scrivens.

Reimer during that time
0-10 13.5%
10-20 14.6%
20-30 10.4%
>30 4.2%

Reimer was the best of the 3.

oilerbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 04:43 PM
  #112
Ret
Registered User
 
Ret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North York, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,265
vCash: 500
Good for him, two million is pretty good for both sides.

Ret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 04:56 PM
  #113
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,555
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Back-up?

This is embarrasing if it was not trolling!

Riptide: Scrivens Toronto, LAK, Edm numbers are 3 years of start him please!
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this. He played 20/48 games in Toronto last year while Reimer was injured. He's played 26 of what... ~60 games this year?

He's putting up great numbers. But until he can prove that he can handle 50+ games in a season, there'll understandably be question marks surrounding him.

Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 05:09 PM
  #114
Groucho
Tier 1 Fan
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Displaced
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
wonder what his wife thinks
check her twitter.

Groucho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 05:17 PM
  #115
Mc5RingsAndABeer
5-14-6-1
 
Mc5RingsAndABeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13,419
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Especially if he's somewhat young and has starter potential. Scrivens is 27 and is putting up crazy numbers. Who knows if he has the ability to be consistent... but for 2.3m, there's no risk in paying him to see what he can do.
Nailed it. He's getting premium backup money but he has the potential to be a starter too.

Mc5RingsAndABeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 05:18 PM
  #116
Trafalgar McLaw
Waive Dallas Eakins
 
Trafalgar McLaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
Awesome value for a 1B goalie. If he can prove he's a starter, it'll be a steal, and if not, it's not like it's a millstone contract.

Trafalgar McLaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 05:59 PM
  #117
danielpalfredsson
Registered User
 
danielpalfredsson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,980
vCash: 500
Why is everybody calling Ben Schrivens a back up?

He had .915 in 20 games for Toronto last year, which as about league average......but this year he has the highest (or at times one of the highest) save percentages in the league.

His save percentage has actually gone up since going to Edmonton. Granted, it's only been 7 games, but it's at least a start in proving that he wasn't just a goalie benefiting from a great system in LA.

Maybe he regresses, maybe he crashes and burns.....but a two year 2 million dollar a year deal is a bridge contract, and Edmonton has cap space.

Either he settles into a back up role, or he cements himself as a starter, and Edmonton takes very little risk in the process. Yes, he could regress to being a back up, but I don't think it's fair to paint him as a back up goalie right now.

danielpalfredsson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 06:05 PM
  #118
DocWest
2012 & 2014 Champs
 
DocWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Go Professor!

DocWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 06:08 PM
  #119
Signature
Kings of the Rebuild
 
Signature's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 6,452
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalfredsson View Post
Why is everybody calling Ben Schrivens a back up?

He had .915 in 20 games for Toronto last year, which as about league average......but this year he has the highest (or at times one of the highest) save percentages in the league.

His save percentage has actually gone up since going to Edmonton. Granted, it's only been 7 games, but it's at least a start in proving that he wasn't just a goalie benefiting from a great system in LA.

Maybe he regresses, maybe he crashes and burns.....but a two year 2 million dollar a year deal is a bridge contract, and Edmonton has cap space.

Either he settles into a back up role, or he cements himself as a starter, and Edmonton takes very little risk in the process. Yes, he could regress to being a back up, but I don't think it's fair to paint him as a back up goalie right now.
Because small sample size. If you can't sustain a good level of play over 55+ games in a single season you're a backup. It's that simple.

Signature is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 06:22 PM
  #120
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,555
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalfredsson View Post
Why is everybody calling Ben Schrivens a back up?

He had .915 in 20 games for Toronto last year, which as about league average......but this year he has the highest (or at times one of the highest) save percentages in the league.

Either he settles into a back up role, or he cements himself as a starter, and Edmonton takes very little risk in the process. Yes, he could regress to being a back up, but I don't think it's fair to paint him as a back up goalie right now.
It's not about his save percentage... it's about whether he can handle the load of starting 50+ times over the course of a season. Because up until this point, that's all he's been was the backup. The only reason he got in 20 games last yr for Toronto was because Reimer got hurt. Same goes for this season with Quick getting injured.

The stats just show that he can play at this level. The next question (which we'll see over the next 2 years) is whether he can do so 50+ times a season.

Edit, I see Signature beat me to it.

Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 06:23 PM
  #121
Mr Positive
Four-NinetySeven-Ten
 
Mr Positive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 6,450
vCash: 2739
Quote:
Originally Posted by leova View Post
exactly, ~2mil is a REASONABLE number for a backup. Some play better/worse, but considering the NHL's financial situation and Cap status, 2mil for a backup is totally fine

Is 2.3 higher than it could be? Maybe, but arguing over 300k here and there is stupid
Not all backups are created equal though. Even if we get Hiller or someone like that this offseason, Scrivens will get a fair chunk of games.

Maybe our 1B

Mr Positive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 06:36 PM
  #122
Johnny Utah
Registered User
 
Johnny Utah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 7,495
vCash: 500
They didn't have much choice...look at the list of UFA goalies this summer...Yikes.

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents?y...G&fa_type_id=2

Johnny Utah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 06:36 PM
  #123
Team Overrated
Registered User
 
Team Overrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 233
vCash: 500
Way to go Scrivens you deserve it!

Team Overrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 06:39 PM
  #124
supert
Registered User
 
supert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature View Post
Because small sample size. If you can't sustain a good level of play over 55+ games in a single season you're a backup. It's that simple.
So if he plays 54 games and another goalie plays 28 games . He only a back while playing double the games ? Not all coaches are going to give a goalie 55 to 70 games , if they have a 1A 1B available to them . Not that Edmonton has that right now but things can change

supert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2014, 07:05 PM
  #125
danielpalfredsson
Registered User
 
danielpalfredsson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,980
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
It's not about his save percentage... it's about whether he can handle the load of starting 50+ times over the course of a season. Because up until this point, that's all he's been was the backup. The only reason he got in 20 games last yr for Toronto was because Reimer got hurt. Same goes for this season with Quick getting injured.

The stats just show that he can play at this level. The next question (which we'll see over the next 2 years) is whether he can do so 50+ times a season.

Edit, I see Signature beat me to it.
But we don't know if he is just a back up until he gets that sort of workload.

My point is that people are griping over this contract as if Scrivens future is already written. This contract is extremely smart.

Best case scenario, he proves himself as a starter, they get him an extension, and possibly solve their goalie situation. Worst case scenario, he settles in as a back up, they over pay him by roughly a million dollars a year for two years, and then he gets an appropriate contract and they have a long term back up.

danielpalfredsson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.