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Whitney to PHX

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Old
03-04-2014, 12:13 AM
  #26
Satan
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I've played more games of hockey this year that Rundblad. Look at what Pirri got for Chicago after asking for a trade. Who's to say Rundblad doesn't? I mean he's ready to go and has tremendous talent that hasn't been fully shown yet.

I think if he is moved it won't be for a giant return and it definitely won't be for Whitney.


I also don't feel comfortable giving Phoenix a possible piece for a playoff push when we're neck and neck even if he could be replaced with Colton Sceviour

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03-04-2014, 12:16 AM
  #27
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I'm not high on getting a forward back in the Whitney deal so Whitney (30% retained) for Klesla + 2nd. That way we can call up Sceviour. We'll retain 50% if you take Rome in the deal too
Absolutely not. No way you get a 2nd.

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03-04-2014, 12:23 AM
  #28
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Last year you guys moved Raffi Torres to SJS for a 3rd. If we take Kesla back who's to say we don't get a 2nd?

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03-04-2014, 12:33 AM
  #29
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I wouldn't mind it if Whitney creeped back into the picture for the coyotes.

Send a 3rd back, upgrade to a 2nd if yotes get past round 1.

If new owners can't afford that prorated contract trade them and move the team to Sochi.

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03-04-2014, 12:57 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Satan View Post
Last year you guys moved Raffi Torres to SJS for a 3rd. If we take Kesla back who's to say we don't get a 2nd?
Last season's Raffi Torres is more valuable than this season's Ray Whitney. Identical points per game but Raffi is a blood and guts playoff warrior, largely coveted. And for one third of the price. Plus he's nearly a full decade younger. If Raffi got a third, you should cross your fingers for a fifth.

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03-04-2014, 02:16 AM
  #31
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The point is we don't take on your ****** contract and get a ****** pick for doing so.

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03-04-2014, 08:57 AM
  #32
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And how exactly would you describe Whitney's contract? He's on pace to be a one hundred and thirty three thousand dollar per point player.

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03-04-2014, 10:18 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Him being around as a potential Morris replacement is much more valuable to us than to move him for a pick in a shallow draft. He barely played at all this year due to Tippett, yet he was one of the top 3/4 players in the camp and pre-season, and had a great year in the AHL last year. There is no way we will move him for something meaningless.
Not trying to be a smart ass, but are they about to fire Tippett? How does anything change next year if Tippett is still around?

From a logical standpoint it makes sense to keep Rundblad and play him, but that doesn't work if they coach won't play him. It's not like Tippett won't have similar if not better options in Murphy and Gormley. He's already chosen Murphy multiple times this season over Rundbald.

I'm not trying to convince you to trade Whitney for Rundblad. With as close as PHX is to Dallas in the standings and fighting for the same 1 playoff spot, I don't believe anymore Dallas would trade him to the Yotes. Not to mention, as much as I would love it to be true, it always seemed like a long shot you could even make that trade happen.

Regardless, you two seem to be fighting a battle that your coach couldn't give two ***** about. It probably won't be Dallas, and it may be a team in Europe (I know he talked about the KHL last summer), but I'd be beyond shocked if this plays out with Rundblad in a Yotes jersey next season or any time soon. That sucks, because I really want to see what this guy can do in the NHL.

No one would fault Rundblad from bolting with the caliber of prospects behind him, and Tippett's willful refusal to play him. He's got no shot there.

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03-04-2014, 10:22 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Last season's Raffi Torres is more valuable than this season's Ray Whitney. Identical points per game but Raffi is a blood and guts playoff warrior, largely coveted. And for one third of the price. Plus he's nearly a full decade younger. If Raffi got a third, you should cross your fingers for a fifth.
Then I'd be more than happy to keep him if all he returned would be a 5th.

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03-04-2014, 10:46 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Not trying to be a smart ass, but are they about to fire Tippett? How does anything change next year if Tippett is still around?

From a logical standpoint it makes sense to keep Rundblad and play him, but that doesn't work if they coach won't play him. It's not like Tippett won't have similar if not better options in Murphy and Gormley. He's already chosen Murphy multiple times this season over Rundbald.

I'm not trying to convince you to trade Whitney for Rundblad. With as close as PHX is to Dallas in the standings and fighting for the same 1 playoff spot, I don't believe anymore Dallas would trade him to the Yotes. Not to mention, as much as I would love it to be true, it always seemed like a long shot you could even make that trade happen.

Regardless, you two seem to be fighting a battle that your coach couldn't give two ***** about. It probably won't be Dallas, and it may be a team in Europe (I know he talked about the KHL last summer), but I'd be beyond shocked if this plays out with Rundblad in a Yotes jersey next season or any time soon. That sucks, because I really want to see what this guy can do in the NHL.

No one would fault Rundblad from bolting with the caliber of prospects behind him, and Tippett's willful refusal to play him. He's got no shot there.
Firing Tip for not playing Runblad is the least of the Coyotes worries. Tip is not on the hot seat, coyotes are about where they were expected to be, fighting for a playoff spot. Runblad is under contract next year, so no need to give him away now. He can be dealt this summer or next year some time if he does not pan out.

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03-04-2014, 10:47 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Not trying to be a smart ass, but are they about to fire Tippett? How does anything change next year if Tippett is still around?

From a logical standpoint it makes sense to keep Rundblad and play him, but that doesn't work if they coach won't play him. It's not like Tippett won't have similar if not better options in Murphy and Gormley. He's already chosen Murphy multiple times this season over Rundbald.

I'm not trying to convince you to trade Whitney for Rundblad. With as close as PHX is to Dallas in the standings and fighting for the same 1 playoff spot, I don't believe anymore Dallas would trade him to the Yotes. Not to mention, as much as I would love it to be true, it always seemed like a long shot you could even make that trade happen.

Regardless, you two seem to be fighting a battle that your coach couldn't give two ***** about. It probably won't be Dallas, and it may be a team in Europe (I know he talked about the KHL last summer), but I'd be beyond shocked if this plays out with Rundblad in a Yotes jersey next season or any time soon. That sucks, because I really want to see what this guy can do in the NHL.

No one would fault Rundblad from bolting with the caliber of prospects behind him, and Tippett's willful refusal to play him. He's got no shot there.
I wouldn't blame it on Tippet. It's more about the roster than Rundblad himself. IMO, DR would play more if the Coyotes had a shut-down D'man to pair him with. Rundblad is under contract for next season, so he isn't going to bolt. The Coyotes will resolve this issue one way or the other before next season starts. This season Maloney's hands were tied- late having a new owner take over and the lowered salary cap.

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03-04-2014, 11:26 AM
  #37
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Then I'd be more than happy to keep him if all he returned would be a 5th.
Don't blame you. If you like what he adds to the mix, I'd keep him.

I also feel like I'm being misunderstood about the whole "to Phoenix" thing. I agree that if Dallas is looking to move him, it'd make more sense to send him east or to a top team, not one that they're in direct competition with for a wild card spot.

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03-04-2014, 11:34 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Not trying to be a smart ass, but are they about to fire Tippett? How does anything change next year if Tippett is still around?

From a logical standpoint it makes sense to keep Rundblad and play him, but that doesn't work if they coach won't play him. It's not like Tippett won't have similar if not better options in Murphy and Gormley. He's already chosen Murphy multiple times this season over Rundbald.

I'm not trying to convince you to trade Whitney for Rundblad. With as close as PHX is to Dallas in the standings and fighting for the same 1 playoff spot, I don't believe anymore Dallas would trade him to the Yotes. Not to mention, as much as I would love it to be true, it always seemed like a long shot you could even make that trade happen.

Regardless, you two seem to be fighting a battle that your coach couldn't give two ***** about. It probably won't be Dallas, and it may be a team in Europe (I know he talked about the KHL last summer), but I'd be beyond shocked if this plays out with Rundblad in a Yotes jersey next season or any time soon. That sucks, because I really want to see what this guy can do in the NHL.

No one would fault Rundblad from bolting with the caliber of prospects behind him, and Tippett's willful refusal to play him. He's got no shot there.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass but how has firing Tippett worked out for Dallas? Missed the post-season every year since, correct?

You make this sound like Tippett has a personal bias against Rundblad or against young players. That's just not true. Connor Murphy has had plenty of reps for us this season. So has Mike Stone.

Rundblad's inability to establish himself in the line-up is the result of how our roster is made up, and the injuries we've suffered. Michalek and Morris have missed time. Yandle and OEL have not. Rusty Klesla got injured in pre-season and hasn't been the same since. We've essentially lost that piece for the whole season.

Who is the more logical replacement for the likes of Michalek, Morris, and Klesla? Would that be Murphy, Stone or Rundblad? Obviously not the latter, right?

For most of the season our GF and PP have ranked in the top ten of the NHL. For most of the season our GA and PK and ranked in the bottom ten of the NHL. Who makes more sense to get inserted into a line-up like that? Murphy, Stone, or Rundblad? Obviously not the latter, right?

On top of this, we've been lacking a consistent physical presence on the back-end. Both our GM and head coach have stated this publicly several times. In fact, when Klesla was demoted, that's the reason they gave. He'd lost his physical game (due to injuries), and was no longer the player they needed him to be. Michael Stone is a physical presence. So is Connor Murphy. Both are bigger, meaner, and more reliable defensively than Rundblad. If it were guys like Yandle and OEL that have been hurt all year instead of guys like Michalek, Morris, and Klesla, than we'd have seen a whole lot of Rundblad. Instead, it's out defense-first, physcial blueliners that have been out of the line-up. That makes Murphy and Stone better options for Tippett.

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03-04-2014, 11:35 AM
  #39
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I was thinking about this earlier this week.

If the Coyotes were to do anything this trade deadline, it would be to go back for Whitney. If anything else additionally, I'd like to see them get some grit on the team. Our Coyotes are looking like ******* out there.

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03-04-2014, 12:26 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Not trying to be a smart ass, but are they about to fire Tippett? How does anything change next year if Tippett is still around?

From a logical standpoint it makes sense to keep Rundblad and play him, but that doesn't work if they coach won't play him. It's not like Tippett won't have similar if not better options in Murphy and Gormley. He's already chosen Murphy multiple times this season over Rundbald.

I'm not trying to convince you to trade Whitney for Rundblad. With as close as PHX is to Dallas in the standings and fighting for the same 1 playoff spot, I don't believe anymore Dallas would trade him to the Yotes. Not to mention, as much as I would love it to be true, it always seemed like a long shot you could even make that trade happen.

Regardless, you two seem to be fighting a battle that your coach couldn't give two ***** about. It probably won't be Dallas, and it may be a team in Europe (I know he talked about the KHL last summer), but I'd be beyond shocked if this plays out with Rundblad in a Yotes jersey next season or any time soon. That sucks, because I really want to see what this guy can do in the NHL.

No one would fault Rundblad from bolting with the caliber of prospects behind him, and Tippett's willful refusal to play him. He's got no shot there.
Not sure what you mean by "willful refusal". Tippett wasn't playing him because of the make up of the D, where Z Michalek, Morris, Stone are all ahead of him on RHD side, and all of which are at least serviceable top-4, and the emergence of Murphy. The injury to and the decline of Klesla certainly didn't help, as he was the logical partner for Rundblad on the 3rd pairing going into the season. Tippett is particularly harsh on young offensive players (I'm sure you know that), and Rundblad did make some (typical rookie) mistakes; and in the time when we were in the thick of the hunt, Tippett had decided to go with more proven options.

All that may change now that we are on the verge of falling out of the race. If there is another 3-4 game losing streak, then we are basically done. At that point, it would make much more sense to play youngsters like Gormley, Rundblad, Murphy a lot more. Stone is potentially trade bait this TDL or off-season, as Murphy is basically the same player with better mobility and better offensive zone reads. Stone is a nice trade chip since he is young and already somewhat proven, and has top-4 upside, which is potentially attractive to a lot of teams that are looking for that long term steady, versatile D solution.

Morris is likely to leave the organization unless he takes a serious pay-cut (he has not distinguished himself this year). I don't think we can afford to keep both Z and DMo in the long run, and Z is a much better option for our style and much more consistent, so we should try to extend him this summer so that he will be locked up beyond next season. So in all likelihood, depends on whether Stone is moved, there will be Z, Murphy, Rundblad on the right side next training camp; he likely will have a much better shot than he got this year.

We are not going to move Rundblad at a time when his value is at an all time low; which is mostly due to some convergence of personalities and circumstances, and the majority of which can hardly be attributed to his play. If you want to offer something real for him (a comparable potential forward prospect), then we would be willing to listen. And other players such as Stone are available if you want to move for a young D. Rundblad is not on the chopping block, not by a long shot.


Last edited by letowskie: 03-04-2014 at 12:34 PM.
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03-04-2014, 12:52 PM
  #41
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I'm not trying to be a smart ass but how has firing Tippett worked out for Dallas? Missed the post-season every year since, correct?

You make this sound like Tippett has a personal bias against Rundblad or against young players. That's just not true. Connor Murphy has had plenty of reps for us this season. So has Mike Stone.

Rundblad's inability to establish himself in the line-up is the result of how our roster is made up, and the injuries we've suffered. Michalek and Morris have missed time. Yandle and OEL have not. Rusty Klesla got injured in pre-season and hasn't been the same since. We've essentially lost that piece for the whole season.

Who is the more logical replacement for the likes of Michalek, Morris, and Klesla? Would that be Murphy, Stone or Rundblad? Obviously not the latter, right?

For most of the season our GF and PP have ranked in the top ten of the NHL. For most of the season our GA and PK and ranked in the bottom ten of the NHL. Who makes more sense to get inserted into a line-up like that? Murphy, Stone, or Rundblad? Obviously not the latter, right?

On top of this, we've been lacking a consistent physical presence on the back-end. Both our GM and head coach have stated this publicly several times. In fact, when Klesla was demoted, that's the reason they gave. He'd lost his physical game (due to injuries), and was no longer the player they needed him to be. Michael Stone is a physical presence. So is Connor Murphy. Both are bigger, meaner, and more reliable defensively than Rundblad. If it were guys like Yandle and OEL that have been hurt all year instead of guys like Michalek, Morris, and Klesla, than we'd have seen a whole lot of Rundblad. Instead, it's out defense-first, physcial blueliners that have been out of the line-up. That makes Murphy and Stone better options for Tippett.
The biggest mistake Dallas ever made was firing Tip. This post ^^^ is spot on for the Runblad situation. Klesla and a fifth for Whitney by the way...

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03-04-2014, 05:42 PM
  #42
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I guess I was just crazy ....

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03-04-2014, 05:46 PM
  #43
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Sure;

Like I said, it's not that Rundblad is a premier asset that is a sure-fire top pairing D; far from it.

But the asset you are offering is marginal at best. 2014 is probably one of the worst drafts in recent memory, and where stars are drafting in the 2nd is highly unlikely to net anyone that can make a long NHL career at all. Considering that, Rundblad is a whole a lot more likely to be a useful NHL player in their respective careers.
Do I actually need to say something, or just quote one of your posts haha.

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03-04-2014, 05:48 PM
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I guess I was just crazy ....
Imagine that.

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03-04-2014, 05:48 PM
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Nice lol

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03-04-2014, 05:53 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Sure. Your first rounder would probably do it. I mean, you're getting the NHL ready youngster and we're getting a big long shot in that pick.

Your 2nd? No thanks.
Quoting this to infinity and beyond.

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03-04-2014, 05:53 PM
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Quoting this to infinity and beyond.
This guy had 2nd rounder written alllllllll over him.

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03-04-2014, 05:56 PM
  #48
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Quoting this to infinity and beyond.
It was an opinion. One that hasn't changed. I'd still rather have Rundblad than a 2nd.

Sure, I'd rather have your 2nd than Chicago's. But I'd rather have Rundblad than either.

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03-04-2014, 05:59 PM
  #49
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Quoting this to infinity and beyond.
Oh it's the classic over evaluation of Prospects on HFBoards

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03-04-2014, 06:05 PM
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on the plus side, Whitney is still available.

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