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"We can't trade him in the conference"

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03-04-2014, 12:07 AM
  #1
MarleauApologist
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"We can't trade him in the conference"

Seriously, this is the stupidest logic I've ever heard. And it's not just fans who say this **** too, cause I know for a fact that GMs think like this, but why? Why does it ****ing matter?

You play a division rival 6 times over an 82 game season. That's 7.3% of your games over a season...does it really matter that much?

No, it ****ing doesnt. The difference that that player makes is probably going to be small for 1 or 2 of those games, even if it's Crosby. So, why should a GM be afraid to trade a player in the division if it's only really going to matter for 4 or maybe 5 games? It's such silly logic, I know, but this kind of **** actually prevents GMs from making better trades. Not to mention we're talking divisional trades here, what about in the conference? In the ****ing conference? What ****ing difference does it really make if you play against that player 1 time or 3 times? Very very little.

Not to mention, you should be trading a player for other useful players who will hurt the other team to give up. So, even if you guys meet in the playoffs; it shouldn't make a huge negative difference. Certainly not enough for a team to turn down a trade which they consider to have better value.

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03-04-2014, 12:08 AM
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Virtanen2Horvat
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I think it really depends on the type of player. But usually I don't care. No way I would trade the player to a rival though.

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03-04-2014, 12:08 AM
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Classless AINEC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Seriously, this is the stupidest logic I've ever heard. And it's not just fans who say this **** too, cause I know for a fact that GMs think like this, but why? Why does it ****ing matter?

You play a division rival 6 times over an 82 game season. That's 7.3% of your games over a season...does it really matter that much?

No, it ****ing doesnt. The difference that that player makes is probably going to be small for 1 or 2 of those games, even if it's Crosby. So, why should a GM be afraid to trade a player in the division if it's only really going to matter for 4 or maybe 5 games? It's such silly logic, I know, but this kind of **** actually prevents GMs from making better trades. Not to mention we're talking divisional trades here, what about in the conference? In the ****ing conference? What ****ing difference does it really make if you play against that player 1 time or 3 times? Very very little.

Not to mention, you should be trading a player for other useful players who will hurt the other team to give up. So, even if you guys meet in the playoffs; it shouldn't make a huge negative difference. Certainly not enough for a team to turn down a trade which they consider to have better value.
You are very angry.

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03-04-2014, 12:09 AM
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Dirty Kari
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Players matter for all 82 games. Not just the 6 times you may play against them.

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03-04-2014, 12:09 AM
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It's not just head-to-head match-ups that are the concern. It's not your record when playing that team. It's that team's record versus your team's record when you are competing for the same playoff spots.

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03-04-2014, 12:10 AM
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Personally the best deal gets the player if it's me. If I can fleece a division rival, absolutely

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03-04-2014, 12:14 AM
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I'd be cool with a Division From Hell tax. An extra prospect or 1st than otherwise proposed.

But it would suck to be burnt by Ryan Kesler continually. When angry very few can stop him.

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03-04-2014, 12:14 AM
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To make the divisional rivals overpay if they want the player. Why chose a package that will be a marginal upgrade over the current one. You do see players traded in the same division occasionally, because that's the team that offered the best package that they deemed fit.

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03-04-2014, 12:15 AM
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You say that trading within the division does not matter. Well let me use the bishop trade as an example of why you are wrong.

If bishop was not traded to the lightning, they might not even be in a playoff spot right now. Bishop has played a major part in why they are still in a playoff spot. The lightning are now a threat to every other eastern conference team just because the senators traded bishop to a team within the same conference.


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03-04-2014, 12:18 AM
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Bobby Smash
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I don't understand the "don't trade within your division" logic. I don't care who I'm "helping", as long as I come out better than before.

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03-04-2014, 12:18 AM
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Don't forget the playoffs.

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03-04-2014, 12:20 AM
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It's not so much the play them 6 times a year aspect as its the time if you have to play them in the playoffs.

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03-04-2014, 12:21 AM
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Yeah, divisional playoffs make it so that the trading within a division could really bite you in the ass, so if you're trading the best piece, you need a premium to make up for that risk.

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03-04-2014, 12:27 AM
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I could care less if it's an inner conference team, I'm taking whoever offers the best package for my player. Now a rival I can understand though.

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03-04-2014, 12:31 AM
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It's GMs protecting themselves and it is rarely beneficial to their teams. Take the best deal you can get.

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03-04-2014, 12:43 AM
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I think there's been an analytical thread on how often teams trade with teams in and out of their conference and/or division. From what I remember, there was a slight preference to trading outside of it, but the difference wasn't huge. I'd agree - if there is a "best deal", it won't make or break it. If there isn't one, it's an obvious tie breaker. But not much more than that.

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03-04-2014, 12:46 AM
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I have been saying this for years. If there's a trade to be made makes sense for both teams, it will be made. Whether a team is in the same Division/conference of the other has zero influence on what happens.

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03-04-2014, 12:49 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Kari View Post
Players matter for all 82 games. Not just the 6 times you may play against them.
This. This. This.

Cory Schneider comes to mind. There were rumours Edmonton was offering stuff up for him, but the whole time I was hoping we didn't take any of their offers. Getting a franchise goaltender would have been a huge step for that team and that could have hurt the Canucks.

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03-04-2014, 01:01 AM
  #19
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Inter-division trading happens: you just have to pay more.

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03-04-2014, 01:09 AM
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Because trades are usually supposed to make both teams better.

You don't want to help other teams in your conference get better.

Like the Bishop example mentioned already.

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03-04-2014, 01:16 AM
  #21
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I'm the 3rd best team in my division with 90 points. I can make a trade with the team that's 4th place in my division who has 89 points. The trade makes me better, I upgrade to 92 points, yay. However the trade makes my division rival better too. They upgrade to 93 points and now pass me for that 3rd divisional spot. I now must hope I get a wildcard spot and even if I do I'm playing a 1st place team in the playoffs.

The trade made me better sure, but it made my divisional rival better as well which in turn makes it tougher for me to make the playoffs.

Why not just make the trade out of conference instead, improve my team, and leave my rivals where the are.

Obviously trades don't work like that, upgrading you 2 points better, but I put those numbers on it to quantify how trading to a divisional rival, while making yourself better can make it tougher on yourself to succeed.

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03-04-2014, 01:21 AM
  #22
Mathew Barzal
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I don't want Kesler anywhere near the Western Conference if he's gone in two days.

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03-04-2014, 01:32 AM
  #23
Riptide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Smash View Post
I don't understand the "don't trade within your division" logic. I don't care who I'm "helping", as long as I come out better than before.
Then before what? Lets say that Vancouver traded Schneider to Edmonton for whatever it was they wanted in June.

Now lets say that CS was the missing piece (unlikely) and that they were fighting for a playoff spot. Now I can't remember what it was that Vancouver wanted from Edmonton... but are those pieces really worth missing the playoffs over? Or worse, making it to the playoffs, only to have the goalie shut you down?

I wouldn't hesitate to make a small trade with a rival - like the Smid one. But there's no chance I'd trade an impact player to a rival unless I was fleecing the crap out of them... and even then I'd probably think twice about it. If you have to match up against that player... you only want to have to do so once - in the finals. When there's multiple suiters, there's no reason to trade the player to a team that can affect your season if you don't have to.

Because it's not just the games you match up against them in, and in the playoffs... but how their performance affects your standings overall. Look at the Tampa example. If they were sucking, Toronto would have their spot in the top 3, and Washington and Detroit would have the WC spots, and Ottawa would be fighting with Columbus and Wsh/Det for those last 2 spots. But Tampa does have that top spot, so Ottawa is now fighting Toronto, Detroit, Washington and Columbus for those final 2 spots.

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03-04-2014, 01:33 AM
  #24
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Most of the time it's nothing but an excuse to try and squeeze more value out of a deal. There are cases where you should avoid it, especially if the alternative packages are close enough, but generally it's one of the unexamined bits of wisdom that just get accepted as truth because people say it often enough.


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03-04-2014, 01:47 AM
  #25
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i would trade any player to whatever team gives me the best offer i don't care one bit about them playing us because guess what we're getting something good back to.

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