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Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXXII: To Smurf or not to Smurf

View Poll Results: What would you have done?
traded Callahan and picks for MSL 62 46.62%
re-signed Callahan 8 6.02%
traded Callahan for a small package (pick or prospect) 63 47.37%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-12-2014, 08:38 PM
  #451
Ail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
I mean, you could argue:
bigger > smaller

but you could also argue:
heart = as big as bigger players

Any athletic person who is motivated can make something happen. If half this team had half the heart of Zucc, we'd be a home run, and everyone knows it
Just out of curiosity I wanted to compare how much bigger the main Boston roster is versus the main Rangers roster. Excluding goalies and 7th/8th defensemen:

Bruins:

AVG Height: 6'1"

AVG Weight: 206

Rangers:

AVG Height: 6'0"

AVG Weight: 200

lol, I guess they just play bigger...

Either way, big bad Boston, isn't all that much bigger.

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03-12-2014, 08:40 PM
  #452
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There were some rumors that Pacioretty may have been shopped at the deadline. Size. Speed. Offense. LWer which is a need.

This system requires that every player can skate well. High pace, stretch the ice.

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03-12-2014, 08:41 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Ail View Post
Just out of curiosity I wanted to compare how much bigger the main Boston roster is versus the main Rangers roster. Excluding goalies and 7th/8th defensemen:

Bruins:

AVG Height: 6'1"

AVG Weight: 206

Rangers:

AVG Height: 6'0"

AVG Weight: 200

lol, I guess they just play bigger...

Either way, big bad Boston, isn't all that much bigger.
I think it's important to take this further and look at the individual players, i.e. Rick Nash.

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03-12-2014, 08:42 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
I think it's important to take this further and look at the individual players, i.e. Rick Nash.
As well as Brian Boyle.

The point is, the size and strength is there. It has nothing to do with being a small team. The problem, if any, lies with the fact that the big players don't play big enough.

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03-12-2014, 08:45 PM
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ail View Post
Just out of curiosity I wanted to compare how much bigger the main Boston roster is versus the main Rangers roster. Excluding goalies and 7th/8th defensemen:

Bruins:

AVG Height: 6'1"

AVG Weight: 206

Rangers:

AVG Height: 6'0"

AVG Weight: 200

lol, I guess they just play bigger...

Either way, big bad Boston, isn't all that much bigger.
Benoit Pouliot is 6'3. Nash is 6'4. Boyle is 6'7. Kreider is 6'3. They have some size. Pouliot and Boyle are UFA's. Replace them with Miller and Fast. Miller is 6'1. Fast is 5'11(if that).

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03-12-2014, 08:47 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Ail View Post
As well as Brian Boyle.

The point is, the size and strength is there. It has nothing to do with being a small team. The problem, if any, lies with the fact that the big players don't play big enough.
This is a major issue. The Rangers haven't had anyone take the punishment to the other team since Prust and Avery and neither of those guys are all that large.

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03-12-2014, 08:51 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
This is a major issue. The Rangers haven't had anyone take the punishment to the other team since Prust and Avery and neither of those guys are all that large.
Right. I'm definitely not going to say this team is tough or intimidating because they certainly don't play like it, but size is not really the issue.

Kreider is the only forward who plays with an edge, and it's not often enough. Miller seems like he will have an edge to his game too. Still, it would be nice if some other big guys played bigger, but asking that of guys like Nash and Boyle this late in their careers is asking a lot.

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03-12-2014, 09:41 PM
  #458
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Watching NHL revealed. Had the Callahan for MSL trade.

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03-13-2014, 12:46 AM
  #459
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The Stars had a good run in the playoffs after acquiring Richards in 2008.The team hasn't made the playoffs since 08. The Rangers are not winning anything with this group. How many keepers at forward for the Rangers? Nash. MSL. Stepan. Kreider. Miller from the prospects. Maybe Hagelin. He has the most trade value if the Rangers wanted to make a move. Richards is a waste of time and money. Zuccarello. Is there room for two small players who play the same position? The Rangers need to make a big decision on him this summer. Brassard. Love/hate with him. You look at the price of centers and if the Rangers could sign him to a 3 year deal for $12M,then maybe he could be a good player for them and they could move him in trade in a few years if they had to. Then you watch him in other games and this guy sucks. Zucc and Brass are in the same boat. Arb eligible. One year away from group III. The bloom is off the rose with Pouliot. Boyle. Moore. Carcillo. All of them are group IIIs. Dorsett. He is a guy you watch a few times a season playing for Columbus and you like him. Watch him play every game for the Rangers and you expect more. Move him in the summer. Teams asked about him last week. McDonagh and Girardi. Staal. Unless the Rangers get a great offer,re-sign Staal. The Rangers will have a ton of money tied up in their top 3 D. Klein is signed for 4 more years at a good number. Re-sign Moore to a 2 year bridge contract. Stralman's play has dropped since the break. The Rangers reportedly made an offer to Stralman and it was rejected but the agent denied that report. 3 years and $9M. Should they sign him? They have Girardi and Klein signed long-term on the right side. McIlrath will need to play in the NHL soon. Hopefully Sather will give the GM reigns to Gorton. The Rangers have a ton of work to do before they are legit Cup contenders.
So I see you think we should trade Hagelin and let both Zuccarello and Stralman walk in the offseason.
Hank I assume should be next?
Then you would get your Dream Team with only NA players


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03-13-2014, 04:54 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
So I see you think we should trade Hagelin and let both Zuccarello and Stralman walk in the offseason.
Hank I assume should be next?
Then you would get your Dream Team with only NA players

Did you miss the North American players on the out list?


Last edited by Megustaelhockey: 03-13-2014 at 04:58 AM. Reason: natd
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03-13-2014, 05:54 AM
  #461
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$69M-$70M cap. From: @FriedgeHNIC
Sent: Mar 12, 2014 11:32a

GMs told cap will be within $1-$2 million of what was projected in September

sent via Twitter for Android
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/statu...71636039553024
Good.

I believe, I am not certain but I believe, after following this number over the years, that they have some kind of formula for how to predict the revenues from the PO's. That seems very reasonable. It seems that this number has been a tad low several years in a row. I also remember ther being talks about the revenues from the PO's being lower than expected due to small market teams making it.

This could also impact us a lot. If ANA/STL/TAMPA and co make it deep, the cap could be lower as opposed to CHI, LA, BOS, NY and co playing late...

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03-13-2014, 10:37 PM
  #462
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Good.

I believe, I am not certain but I believe, after following this number over the years, that they have some kind of formula for how to predict the revenues from the PO's. That seems very reasonable. It seems that this number has been a tad low several years in a row. I also remember ther being talks about the revenues from the PO's being lower than expected due to small market teams making it.

This could also impact us a lot. If ANA/STL/TAMPA and co make it deep, the cap could be lower as opposed to CHI, LA, BOS, NY and co playing late...
I know some have been speculating that it would be 68M, but the numbers just didn't work to get that low. Mostly fearmongering by some writer in LA that kept on saying the cdn would cause a drastic drop off.

Worst case it's 69.1 from my calculations, with it most likely being somewhere in the 69.8-70.4 if not higher.

People tend to forget that cdn teams don't account or pay salaries in cdn, and that they can always raise ticket prices to offset the difference. It's been going on for years in markets that sell out.

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03-13-2014, 10:49 PM
  #463
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As well as Brian Boyle.

The point is, the size and strength is there. It has nothing to do with being a small team. The problem, if any, lies with the fact that the big players don't play big enough.
The Bruins are big and tough, we only have a couple of big dead weights. We all know Boyle is soft like a baby's butt, and Nash isn't much better.

This team lacks tough guys who can hit and create some energy, the key to Bruins success.

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03-13-2014, 11:10 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Benoit Pouliot is 6'3. Nash is 6'4. Boyle is 6'7. Kreider is 6'3. They have some size. Pouliot and Boyle are UFA's. Replace them with Miller and Fast. Miller is 6'1. Fast is 5'11(if that).
It's not just about size, though.

Nash is a big man but he is completely devoid of physicality and disappears when we face physical teams.

Its the lack of passion, guts, heart that makes this team nearly un-watchable.

I want the passion and guts from the 11-12 roster, mixed with the transition and puck movement from the better parts of this roster.

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03-13-2014, 11:20 PM
  #465
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It's not just about size, though.

Nash is a big man but he is completely devoid of physicality and disappears when we face physical teams.

Its the lack of passion, guts, heart that makes this team nearly un-watchable.


I want the passion and guts from the 11-12 roster, mixed with the transition and puck movement from the better parts of this roster.


one reason i did not want Rick Nash.. fans of the Bluejackets said the same thing about him..

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03-13-2014, 11:34 PM
  #466
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one reason i did not want Rick Nash.. fans of the Bluejackets said the same thing about him..
I hated that trade, and I still do.

I hate the St. Louis trade.

Loved the Gaborik trade, still do.

I personally would have kept the core together; Callahan, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Del Zotto, Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Kreider, Miller, Stepan, Brassard, Zuccarello, J.Moore, Stralman, Hagelin, Boyle.

Would have put McDonagh on the right side, put Del Zotto on the left.

Added a couple pieces via trade/free agency that fit the identity, like Jamie McGinn for example.

Kept building. Kept moving forward.

Not gutting amd overhauling every summer. There is no identity now. No chemistry. Where is the passion? Guts?

Still would have fired Tortorella and brought in a guy who would have tweaked. Added emphasis on transition and forecheck.

When the time and opportunity presented its self, add that "missing piece".

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03-13-2014, 11:51 PM
  #467
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Still love the MSL trade. Still do.

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03-14-2014, 01:04 AM
  #468
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As well as Brian Boyle.

The point is, the size and strength is there. It has nothing to do with being a small team. The problem, if any, lies with the fact that the big players don't play big enough.
You could have left out the word "enough". The big players don't play big, period. I know the popular joke is to say Boyle is the softest big man in the league, but if you look at Boyles hit totals and consider how willing he is to lay in front of shots and such, and then consider the ice time (and salary) differential between he and Nash, 6'4 216lb Rick Nash may actually be, in all seriousness, THE softest big man in the NHL.

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03-14-2014, 01:24 AM
  #469
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Still love the MSL trade. Still do.
Yeah, it's looking great so far.

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03-14-2014, 01:32 AM
  #470
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Yeah, it's looking great so far.
Were you honestly expecting us to go 5-0? We've received 5 points in our last 5 games. Not where we want to be but it's hardly the end of the world. It wasn't likely that were going to immediately put MSL with his best linemates, that's not how things work. We're right where we need to be in order to stay in the playoffs.

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03-14-2014, 01:34 AM
  #471
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Were you honestly expecting us to go 5-0? We've received 5 points in our last 5 games. Not where we want to be but it's hardly the end of the world. It wasn't likely that were going to immediately put MSL with his best linemates, that's not how things work. We're right where we need to be in order to stay in the playoffs.
I was expecting more than 1 ******* point. Is going .500 gonna keep us in the playoffs? We're already dropping spots, and Philly is right up our ass.

Bit fed up with this team, and all the excuses for them. Whatever.


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03-14-2014, 02:03 AM
  #472
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I was expecting more than 1 ******* point. Is going .500 gonna keep us in the playoffs? We're already dropping spots, and Philly is right up our ass.

Bit fed up with this team, and all the excuses for them. Whatever.
The sky isn't falling yet. We haven't fallen out of the playoffs and we'd have to fall behind Detroit (who we beat recently) or Jersey, to be totally out of it. Some things need to change with lines but we have time. Getting worried over nothing doesn't solve anything.

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03-14-2014, 02:07 AM
  #473
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The sky isn't falling yet. We haven't fallen out of the playoffs and we'd have to fall behind Detroit (who we beat recently) or Jersey, to be totally out of it. Some things need to change with lines but we have time. Getting worried over nothing doesn't solve anything.
Detroit has 2 games in hand on us. Whether I'm concerned or not has nothing to do with what actually happens. These guys are playing October hockey at literally the worst time. I don't care if that doesn't bother anyone else, but I'm pissed at this team.

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03-14-2014, 02:59 AM
  #474
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The sky isn't falling yet. We haven't fallen out of the playoffs and we'd have to fall behind Detroit (who we beat recently) or Jersey, to be totally out of it. Some things need to change with lines but we have time. Getting worried over nothing doesn't solve anything.
I wouldn't say it's getting worried over nothing. There are very legitimate reasons for concern. The thing, for me, is that this is what I have expected since November. I'm not as upset as I normally would be and I'm not in the sky is falling, panic mode I probably have been in in years past because I've learned my lessons. This is the NY Rangers we're talking about. I'm not surprised we're in danger of missing the playoffs; I'm surprised how many of you let them fool you again after what they showed us to start this season. So what, Nash got hot and padded his personal stats. Of course Lundqvist's game normalized, earning us wins by default, because that's what happens when Hank is in net. So what, we looked good during the most meaningless stretch of the season? We never addressed any of the problems or issues though. Did everyone think they just magically went away? Or did you actually start to believe that maybe we actually did have enough scoring? Maybe we didn't actually need to fill that offensive hole on the blue line? Maybe the gaping holes in our roster were just lies that jaded fans made up and didn't need to be addressed? Did you really let the biggest, softest, most heartless mercenary of a Ranger I can remember trick you into thinking he was actually a big game player when he ramped his game up just in time for the Olympics, only to promptly disappear again once he had his gold medal around his neck? I mean, does anyone REALLY think this is a competitive roster?

Don't get me wrong, I've watched 90% of the games this season, but I have never once thought "maybe we can actually make a run". I watch the games because I love hockey, and for the time being, I scout the players we've got, assess the things we need to change and the holes we need to fill and I dream about the future. I've never had hope for this season. I just don't see how you could without completely kidding yourself. This team is poorly assembled. We add pieces that do not make sense and there is no semblance of a plan or a destination. I honestly don't even know if I believe Sather cares about winning a Cup; you could easily sell me on the notion that he gets a percentage of playoff revenue in his contract and all he cares about is two guaranteed home games in the post season. It's all but certain that's all Dolan wants.

Let's take the Callahan/St. Louis scenario. I haven't complained about the trade for a couple of reasons. First, I like Marty St. Louis and second, I really, really did not want us to give Callahan the contract that was being discussed. By moving Callahan for MSL we dodged that bullet, but if you had asked me if I had any interest in trading our 1st and 2nd for a 38 year old, win now pick up I'd have had no hesitation in answering "**** no". Add in the fact that we could have dealt Callahan himself for a 1st, a young player or, at least, a 2nd and you're basically choosing a 38 year old who indicates we're in a win now mind state that we CLEARLY shouldn't be in over our 1st, our 2nd and an additional 1st or young player. To me, there is no clearer proof in the world that this organization has no clue what they're doing and no plan at all. We simply can't compete with the top teams in the league. Adding MSL doesn't change that. Now, I would have been furious had they done this but, for arguments sake, had they added MSL and then followed it up with a couple more win now moves to really bolster the roster and try to make a run (which still would have been futile and a waste of assets), at least it would indicate that they have a plan to actually go for it. But they didn't load up to go for it AND they didn't use Callahan to add a pick/young player and try to set up our future. They just added one 38 year old player, who came at a premium we had no business paying, but didn't make the team any more competitive this year, or any better equipped for the future. No plan. No direction. Nothing.

The kind of process that led to the above is the same process that led us to where we are right now. An identity-less, patch work, unlikable, difficult to invest in roster that doesn't have a particular style or strength, doesn't play for one another, doesn't bring a respectable effort and doesn't have a chance at winning, nor a very bright future. Our prospect pool is not good. Our drafting is not great. Our current roster is a mish mosh of no heart players, only some of whom can contribute. Why would you let this team fool you into thinking they were legit at any point during this season? Going in with guys like Pouliot (who has actually surprised me and been much better than he usually is, everywhere else he's been) and Pyatt to start this season, I knew our roster wasn't competitive. The previous 4 or 5 years were as good as it's going to get any time soon for us Rangers fans, I fear. We've been trending downward since our peak in the ECF and I don't see any prospect in the system who can make an impact to change that, any free agent that would actually right this ship, any draft picks that we can use to get help or any plan from management to address any of it. I like MSL just fine - I've always been a fan - but bringing him in at the expense of our 1st and 2nd when we could have turned Cally into additiional young assets just tells me that I shouldn't get my hopes up any time soon. Turning Cally into a late 1st and then packaging our 1st, the other 1st, a player like Brassard and a prospect like Miller to acquire a genuine impact player under 25 (like Seguin) is the only kind of trade we should be making where first rounders are even considered available. Trading Cally, our 1st and a 2nd for a 38 year old tells you everything you ever needed to know. This team is hopeless. Being a Rangers fan is a self inflicted torture and the less you get your hopes up and let them trick you, the less disappointing the experience.

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03-14-2014, 04:28 AM
  #475
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I wouldn't say it's getting worried over nothing. There are very legitimate reasons for concern. The thing, for me, is that this is what I have expected since November. I'm not as upset as I normally would be and I'm not in the sky is falling, panic mode I probably have been in in years past because I've learned my lessons. This is the NY Rangers we're talking about. I'm not surprised we're in danger of missing the playoffs; I'm surprised how many of you let them fool you again after what they showed us to start this season. So what, Nash got hot and padded his personal stats. Of course Lundqvist's game normalized, earning us wins by default, because that's what happens when Hank is in net. So what, we looked good during the most meaningless stretch of the season? We never addressed any of the problems or issues though. Did everyone think they just magically went away? Or did you actually start to believe that maybe we actually did have enough scoring? Maybe we didn't actually need to fill that offensive hole on the blue line? Maybe the gaping holes in our roster were just lies that jaded fans made up and didn't need to be addressed? Did you really let the biggest, softest, most heartless mercenary of a Ranger I can remember trick you into thinking he was actually a big game player when he ramped his game up just in time for the Olympics, only to promptly disappear again once he had his gold medal around his neck? I mean, does anyone REALLY think this is a competitive roster?

Don't get me wrong, I've watched 90% of the games this season, but I have never once thought "maybe we can actually make a run". I watch the games because I love hockey, and for the time being, I scout the players we've got, assess the things we need to change and the holes we need to fill and I dream about the future. I've never had hope for this season. I just don't see how you could without completely kidding yourself. This team is poorly assembled. We add pieces that do not make sense and there is no semblance of a plan or a destination. I honestly don't even know if I believe Sather cares about winning a Cup; you could easily sell me on the notion that he gets a percentage of playoff revenue in his contract and all he cares about is two guaranteed home games in the post season. It's all but certain that's all Dolan wants.

Let's take the Callahan/St. Louis scenario. I haven't complained about the trade for a couple of reasons. First, I like Marty St. Louis and second, I really, really did not want us to give Callahan the contract that was being discussed. By moving Callahan for MSL we dodged that bullet, but if you had asked me if I had any interest in trading our 1st and 2nd for a 38 year old, win now pick up I'd have had no hesitation in answering "**** no". Add in the fact that we could have dealt Callahan himself for a 1st, a young player or, at least, a 2nd and you're basically choosing a 38 year old who indicates we're in a win now mind state that we CLEARLY shouldn't be in over our 1st, our 2nd and an additional 1st or young player. To me, there is no clearer proof in the world that this organization has no clue what they're doing and no plan at all. We simply can't compete with the top teams in the league. Adding MSL doesn't change that. Now, I would have been furious had they done this but, for arguments sake, had they added MSL and then followed it up with a couple more win now moves to really bolster the roster and try to make a run (which still would have been futile and a waste of assets), at least it would indicate that they have a plan to actually go for it. But they didn't load up to go for it AND they didn't use Callahan to add a pick/young player and try to set up our future. They just added one 38 year old player, who came at a premium we had no business paying, but didn't make the team any more competitive this year, or any better equipped for the future. No plan. No direction. Nothing.

The kind of process that led to the above is the same process that led us to where we are right now. An identity-less, patch work, unlikable, difficult to invest in roster that doesn't have a particular style or strength, doesn't play for one another, doesn't bring a respectable effort and doesn't have a chance at winning, nor a very bright future. Our prospect pool is not good. Our drafting is not great. Our current roster is a mish mosh of no heart players, only some of whom can contribute. Why would you let this team fool you into thinking they were legit at any point during this season? Going in with guys like Pouliot (who has actually surprised me and been much better than he usually is, everywhere else he's been) and Pyatt to start this season, I knew our roster wasn't competitive. The previous 4 or 5 years were as good as it's going to get any time soon for us Rangers fans, I fear. We've been trending downward since our peak in the ECF and I don't see any prospect in the system who can make an impact to change that, any free agent that would actually right this ship, any draft picks that we can use to get help or any plan from management to address any of it. I like MSL just fine - I've always been a fan - but bringing him in at the expense of our 1st and 2nd when we could have turned Cally into additiional young assets just tells me that I shouldn't get my hopes up any time soon. Turning Cally into a late 1st and then packaging our 1st, the other 1st, a player like Brassard and a prospect like Miller to acquire a genuine impact player under 25 (like Seguin) is the only kind of trade we should be making where first rounders are even considered available. Trading Cally, our 1st and a 2nd for a 38 year old tells you everything you ever needed to know. This team is hopeless. Being a Rangers fan is a self inflicted torture and the less you get your hopes up and let them trick you, the less disappointing the experience.
Terrific post

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