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Send zibby down and bring up dacosta

View Poll Results: Who should have the 3c spot?
Zibby 76 73.08%
Da Costa 17 16.35%
Pageau 11 10.58%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-06-2014, 03:26 PM
  #76
Smash88
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Is this loyalty to vets strictly an Ottawa thing?

I think it applies across all the major sports.

To unseat a vet you need to completely outplay them.

Zibanejad has not done that yet, in regards to Spezza.

Why Condra and Greening haven't sat a bit, I have no clue.

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03-06-2014, 03:36 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Smash88 View Post
Is this loyalty to vets strictly an Ottawa thing?

I think it applies across all the major sports.

To unseat a vet you need to completely outplay them.

Zibanejad has not done that yet, in regards to Spezza.

Why Condra and Greening haven't sat a bit, I have no clue.
I never had the expectation that Zibby would replace Spezza after playing just slightly more than 100 games.

The question is whether or not Zibby should be sent down for Da Costa and I think not.

Condra and Greening haven't sat because both are utilized on the PK and are fairly responsible players defensively.

Do either of these guys belong in the top six, no.

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03-06-2014, 03:37 PM
  #78
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being a plus minus in such a small sample size doesnt really matter to me cause zibby is probbaly playing against easier competition. Just looking at the last few months i wonder if it is time to give another center a chance from bingo

and i see no reason to sit vets they give us a better chance at winning. You think putting Zibby in spezza spot would have made a difference? we probably would be worse off. Maybe we can sit someone like greening but then Zibby goes to wing cause Da Costa is a pure center
This is comical. Yes the last time we didn't have Spezza Zibby was the key part of Miconabad, and YES WE WERE WINNING. I feel like I'm talking to MacLean

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03-06-2014, 03:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Interesting concept, the veterans get paid more money because they are supposed to be the leaders and producers, yet you want people to believe somehow the kids are equally responsible?

IMO Spezza, Michalek, Phillips, and Neil haven't earned the dollar value attached to their contracts this year.

Looking to a kid and suggesting he is equally responsible for this mess is beyond incredible.
The veterans get paid more money because they've earned it with previous production and success. Who said that the kids were equally responsible?

What good does it do to put young players in a position to fail? The veterans have been there through the ups and downs, they've experienced the bumps and bruises that come with losing and not playing well, being criticized by the media and carrying the weight of the team on their shoulders.

How do you think Zibanejad and Ceci would feel if put under the microscope like Spezza and Phillips are? You don't really know, but the wise thing is not to throw kids into a 'trial by fire' or you can easily end up with an Edmonton situation.

The bottom line is that the kids are not stepping up and making a case to be played in front of the players that have. Zibanejad has not played better than the guys in front of him, and like this topic has suggested when SDC was up last he made a case to be played in front of Zibanejad.

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03-06-2014, 03:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
The veterans get paid more money because they've earned it with previous production and success. Who said that the kids were equally responsible?

What good does it do to put young players in a position to fail? The veterans have been there through the ups and downs, they've experienced the bumps and bruises that come with losing and not playing well, being criticized by the media and carrying the weight of the team on their shoulders.

How do you think Zibanejad and Ceci would feel if put under the microscope like Spezza and Phillips are? You don't really know, but the wise thing is not to throw kids into a 'trial by fire' or you can easily end up with an Edmonton situation.

The bottom line is that the kids are not stepping up and making a case to be played in front of the players that have. Zibanejad has not played better than the guys in front of him, and like this topic has suggested when SDC was up last he made a case to be played in front of Zibanejad.
A) they did last year and succeeded. This year Zibanejad looked better than Spezza has all year when he was injured and they went on the first and only win streak.

B) they already are under a microscope, and just want some consistent ice time and lines. Reference this thread for crazy criticism.

The end.

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03-06-2014, 04:34 PM
  #81
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Zibby is playing hard.

Can we just go back in time, trade the dead weight players on deadline day, and get some guys who are hungry for the wins?

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03-06-2014, 07:16 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
The veterans get paid more money because they've earned it with previous production and success. Who said that the kids were equally responsible?

What good does it do to put young players in a position to fail? The veterans have been there through the ups and downs, they've experienced the bumps and bruises that come with losing and not playing well, being criticized by the media and carrying the weight of the team on their shoulders.

How do you think Zibanejad and Ceci would feel if put under the microscope like Spezza and Phillips are? You don't really know, but the wise thing is not to throw kids into a 'trial by fire' or you can easily end up with an Edmonton situation.

The bottom line is that the kids are not stepping up and making a case to be played in front of the players that have. Zibanejad has not played better than the guys in front of him, and like this topic has suggested when SDC was up last he made a case to be played in front of Zibanejad.
Da Costa played much better on his last recall, however he played 3rd line center while Zibby went to Spezza's RW in another attempt to get the "star" going.

While I don't disagree Da Costa deserves the opportunity to play in Ottawa, he isn't better than Zibby, nor is he as flexible in position.

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03-06-2014, 11:50 PM
  #83
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After much thought and dilemma, I think we're better off keeping Greening.

Michalek-Spezza-Hemsky
MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Greening-Smith-Neil
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Pageau/Da Costa/Condra (plz leave)

That is better than what we had in the beginning of the year, all of last year, and all of two years ago. Progress.

The D needs more experience, that's our biggest problem.

Look at a team like Montreal. We're better than them offensively and goaltending is even, maybe a slight edge to them since Price is better than both of our goalies. Their D has much more experience, and it makes a big difference. Markov, Gorges and then guys like Murray.

We have Phillips, Methot is starting to enter the veteran zone, isn't quite there yet. After that? Every D under 24.

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03-07-2014, 12:02 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DrEasy View Post
DrEasy's lines, now complete with Hemsky and Da Costa:

Mac - Turris - Ryan
Michalek - Spezza - Hemsky
Hoffman - Da Costa - Ziba
Greening - Smith - Condra
Neil

(Kassian sent to orbit)
That. make that the lineup. There, that wasnt so hard was it?

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03-07-2014, 12:30 AM
  #85
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None of this is going to happen because the coach only trusts certain players & other stay because they are vets.

Greening - Smith - Neil - this line isn't going to change no matter what anyone here says, it's PM's favourite line. Maybe there are changes this summer with these three, maybe one of them gets traded but I doubt it.

MacArthur - Turris - Ryan - this line will also stay together because they have been the most successful together. All three are signed for next yr.

Michalek - Spezza - Hemsky - with the acquisition of a forward to play with Spezza, Hemsky will play here along with Michalek who has a history with Spezza. It has the makings of a good line & I assume Hemsky will be re-signed, Michalek may not be.

All that is left to argue really or discuss is the last line which is filled with the players that are left until such time as changes are made or prospects are promoted. My guess is that Zibanejad stays at centre because PM likes him at centre. I also think Hoffman will likely be there until the end of the season when they decide whether he has won that job or not but he has to score to keep it. Condra probably has the inside track for the RW spot on this line but I think he will eventually be replaced by Stone. Both SDC & Pageau have had there shots at the 3rd line centre job & management has decided that they like Zibanejad at centre the best. If this lineup doesn't start to win games more changes are going to take place but not until the end of the season.

Hoffman - Zibanejad - Condra/Stone


Last edited by aragorn: 03-07-2014 at 12:36 AM.
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03-07-2014, 08:52 AM
  #86
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Sorry to say this but Zib is a 3rd liner at best. He just doensn't have any hockey sense. Skates real fast and can shoot hard but that's it.

He is Mike Fisher 2.0.
How is a Fisher a 3rd liner and Turris a 1st liner on this board?

Best PPG's (0.71 = 58pt pace, 0.51 = 42pt pace)
Fisher 33yo = 0.71, 0.71, 0.67, 0.65, 0.61, 0.59, 0.55, 0.51
Turris 24yo = 0.71, 0.60, 0.53

Most Common Linemates in the Best Years:
Fisher = Schaefer, Foligno, Neil
Turris = Alfredsson, MacArthur, Ryan

We would be lucky if he became another Fisher.

Player19yo20yo21yo22yo
Turris0.32N/A0.380.53
Fisher0.280.320.410.51
Zibby0.480.47TBATBA

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03-07-2014, 09:07 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
How is a Fisher a 3rd liner and Turris a 1st liner on this board?

Best PPG's (0.71 = 58pt pace, 0.51 = 42pt pace)
Fisher 33yo = 0.71, 0.71, 0.67, 0.65, 0.61, 0.59, 0.55, 0.51
Turris 24yo = 0.71, 0.60, 0.53

Most Common Linemates in the Best Years:
Fisher = Schaefer, Foligno, Neil
Turris = Alfredsson, MacArthur, Ryan

We would be lucky if he became another Fisher.

Player19yo20yo21yo22yo
Turris0.32N/A0.380.53
Fisher0.280.320.410.51
Zibby0.480.47TBATBA
They only think he is a third line center because they never see him on the ice thanks to Mac's awesome decisions. If they treated Spezza the same way, he would never be on the PP and get fourth line minutes with what he brings many nights.

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03-07-2014, 10:21 AM
  #88
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I hope Zibanejad can be another Fisher. It's not an unrealistic goal for him unlike some that have been put out there.

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03-07-2014, 12:31 PM
  #89
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Sorry to say this but Zib is a 3rd liner at best. He just doensn't have any hockey sense. Skates real fast and can shoot hard but that's it.

He is Mike Fisher 2.0.

In all honesty though, I think within 2 seasons, this team is going to be a lottery pick. Spezza will have regressed or left, I think 100% Bobby is gone. How the F is Neil on the pp and not Bobby. Does Mac hate Bobby? So we lose him and all those assets for nothing. Our d outside of Karlsson is garbage and I don't know why, I could see Karlsson leaving via trade when he requests one.

ugh....
The kid oozes with hockey sense. Always in the right spot at the right time. I never understood the opinion that he lacked hockey sense. I assume it started after his 9 game tryout where he tired to play as simple of a game as he could.

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03-07-2014, 02:57 PM
  #90
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The kid oozes with hockey sense. Always in the right spot at the right time. I never understood the opinion that he lacked hockey sense. I assume it started after his 9 game tryout where he tired to play as simple of a game as he could.
Eh...I guess you and I want him to be in different spots sometimes.

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03-07-2014, 03:16 PM
  #91
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people here use such small sample sizes it is crazy

Spezza IS a better player than Zibby is right now and Zibby will probably not have as good as career stat wise.

To think that Zibby as a 20 year old is rdy to be a top 2 center on this team is ridiculous.

Zibby has to find consistancy and unseat spezza like couture has done in San Jose to earn his spot in the top spots.

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03-07-2014, 03:31 PM
  #92
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Eh...I guess you and I want him to be in different spots sometimes.
I'm quite okay with that.

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03-07-2014, 03:31 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
people here use such small sample sizes it is crazy

Spezza IS a better player than Zibby is right now and Zibby will probably not have as good as career stat wise.

To think that Zibby as a 20 year old is rdy to be a top 2 center on this team is ridiculous.

Zibby has to find consistancy and unseat spezza like couture has done in San Jose to earn his spot in the top spots.
I don't think you understand how few games are left, and how small sample sizes are all this team has at this point. They need to experiment.

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03-07-2014, 03:36 PM
  #94
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I don't think you understand how few games are left, and how small sample sizes are all this team has at this point. They need to experiment.

Experiment how? Spezza when he came back started on lower lines and instantly you could tell he was better and thus got his icetime quickly back

If Zibanejad wants his ice back he actually has to show something. You dont just throw icetime at him. That is what we did last year (threw icetime at him cause we had to) and he got comfortable coming into this season thinking he deserves a spot. He also is realizing how hard it is to play a 82 game season which he hasnt done before

Zibby is lucky to still be up here tbh.


I hope he wakes up cause the team could use some of his offense. He has some great tools

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03-07-2014, 03:48 PM
  #95
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I'm quite okay with that.
I guess me too? I mean him being a -11 and on pace for less than 40 points shows just how he is always in the right place at the right time especially considering his amazing tools.

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03-07-2014, 03:58 PM
  #96
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Experiment how? Spezza when he came back started on lower lines and instantly you could tell he was better and thus got his icetime quickly back

If Zibanejad wants his ice back he actually has to show something. You dont just throw icetime at him. That is what we did last year (threw icetime at him cause we had to) and he got comfortable coming into this season thinking he deserves a spot. He also is realizing how hard it is to play a 82 game season which he hasnt done before

Zibby is lucky to still be up here tbh.


I hope he wakes up cause the team could use some of his offense. He has some great tools
No, he was not significantly better. They just gave him the minutes because it's Spezza. Total nonsense. Look what giving him top minutes has got the sens. Bottom barrel team. If you don't change the variables, they will keep performing the way they have all year.

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03-07-2014, 04:10 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
people here use such small sample sizes it is crazy

Spezza IS a better player than Zibby is right now and Zibby will probably not have as good as career stat wise.

To think that Zibby as a 20 year old is rdy to be a top 2 center on this team is ridiculous.

Zibby has to find consistancy and unseat spezza like couture has done in San Jose to earn his spot in the top spots.
WOW Maybe Spezza is the one that needs to find consistency. One game brilliant next game he's a dog. But once again (MacLean) this is the problem with this team. Accountability !!! The youth are held accountable our "country club" veterans are not. You can right up any lines you want, you can trade, waive, and sign free agents, but as long as there is no accountabilty for the veterans this team is going nowhere. Think about it Conacher got sent out of town, this is our definition of change ? There are BIG problems on this team and the management refuses to see it. They continue to rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic thinking things will get better. Good Luck !!!!

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03-07-2014, 04:24 PM
  #98
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I guess me too? I mean him being a -11 and on pace for less than 40 points shows just how he is always in the right place at the right time especially considering his amazing tools.
There's a difference between hockey sense and learning to be effective and working on consistency. He is one of the best on the team when it comes to anticipation. That's hockey sense.

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03-07-2014, 04:54 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
people here use such small sample sizes it is crazy

Spezza IS a better player than Zibby is right now and Zibby will probably not have as good as career stat wise.

To think that Zibby as a 20 year old is rdy to be a top 2 center on this team is ridiculous.

Zibby has to find consistancy and unseat spezza like couture has done in San Jose to earn his spot in the top spots.
Spezza is the better offensive player right now, Zibby is better at everything else.

To think BM traded for a 22 year old center that had been relegated to 4th line minutes in Phoenix. Then MacLean was so off-base he played this kid as the second line center. The same kid that basically became the first line center last season and for the most part this season.

Standing still is never an option, it cost Phoenix a very good player because their coach agreed with your opinion on young player opportunity.

Maybe MacLean could learn from McLellan, give the kids the opportunity, it will only get better.

I could understand all this Spezza stuff if he was playing great and the team was firmly in the playoffs.

Fact is the team isn't even competing, losing to the 27th and 29th placed teams and falling further behind in the playoff race.

Please explain what harm it would do to play Zibby with Hoffman and Hemsky as the second line for the balance of the season?

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Hemsky
Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Greening-Smith-Condra/Neil

I do admit this would never happen because MacLean wouldn't sit Neil nor would he openly admit his captain just hasn't been the player he used to be.

Definition of insanity, continue to do the same thing and expect the result to be different.

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03-07-2014, 08:27 PM
  #100
Curtinho
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There's a difference between hockey sense and learning to be effective and working on consistency. He is one of the best on the team when it comes to anticipation. That's hockey sense.
I guess we can agree to disagree. So many times he just doesn't seem to know what to do so he makes a simple play and then skates. Not a bad thing by any means, but he hasn't shown much other than very sparse flashes of an advanced level of thinking on the ice. His physical tools and skill are what make him so good IMO.

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