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Dedicated 4th line discussion

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Old
03-06-2014, 03:32 PM
  #26
WhatsaMaatta
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
I actually don't mind Sutter being the defensive valve for Kunitz-Crosby. Once out of the defensive zone Crosby plays more like a RW anyway so just let Sutter play his vanilla game while those two do most of the work.
If Sid got shut down with Dupuis on his wing, how do you think he'll fare with Sutter? I just don't see that working well in the playoffs, especially while this team still needs Sutter in the bottom 6.


Last edited by WhatsaMaatta: 03-06-2014 at 03:45 PM.
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Old
03-06-2014, 03:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I would be okay with a 4th line that consisted of:

ONE OF: GLASS/ADAMS/PYATT (coach needs warm feelings - Vitale - Megna/Engelland

I would prefer something like

Megna - Vitale - Engelland, but coach doesn't seem to trust Megna OR a forward Engelland.
I agree with this. I don't hate Glass as much as everyone else so I don't mind him in the lineup really. I definitely think Megna and Engo are better, but you can't get what you want with DB. Not a fan of Pyatt or Adams in the lineup.

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03-06-2014, 03:52 PM
  #28
OGBobbyFarnham
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Would be so sweet if Adams just wasn't here.
I don't mind hanging on to Pyatt though for a playoff run. He can be the 13th F or fill in for injuries.

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03-06-2014, 03:54 PM
  #29
UnrealMachine
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Gibbons - Vitale - Engelland

To me, this is a good mix of speed, toughness, defensive acumen and scoring. They all kind of compliment each other well and could actually spend some time in the offensive zone for a change and hopefully wear down the opposition. I understand Gibbons not belonging on a traditional Pens 4th line of defensive zone punching bags, but this like has the potential to be something better than a cliche of meaningless buzzwords (grit/sandpaper/energy/etc.). Gibbons has been too good both offensively and defensively to be benched. All 3 of these players can PK and Engelland can swing back to D if necessary.

One thing worth mentioning, now that the Pens look to have a real 3rd line, I expect (hope for?) them to get more ES ice time and the 4th getting less time by default.

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03-06-2014, 03:56 PM
  #30
OGBobbyFarnham
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Originally Posted by WhatsaMaatta View Post
If Sid got shut down with Dupuis on his wing, how do you think he'll fare with Sutter? I just don't see that working well in the playoffs, especially while this team still needs Sutter in the bottom 6.
Yea Sutter is a tad too soft to be playing on Sid's RW for a playoff run.
Best options are Stempniak, Megna(who wouldn't get thrown around as much as Gibbons) and of course Neal.

Gibbons is best served on the 3rd line if he stays up with the big club.

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03-06-2014, 03:59 PM
  #31
OGBobbyFarnham
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For me the best 4th line right now would be:

Glass-Vitale/Goc-Engelland or

Zolneircyk-Vitale/Goc-Glass

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Old
03-06-2014, 05:01 PM
  #32
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Glass-Vitale-Adams or
Glass-Adams-Engelland

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03-06-2014, 05:03 PM
  #33
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I would prefer

Sill / Vitale / Megna

But it will be Gladdams and Vitale.

This being the case, I favor the top 9 all playing big minutes, and the 4th line playing 5-6 minutes a night.

Our PK should be:

Sutter - Goc
Vitale - Stemp

With spot work by Megna, Sid and Kunitz

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03-06-2014, 05:06 PM
  #34
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I understand the criticism of Adams but not Glass. Not this season.

The fourth line should be Glass - Vitale and a rotation of Gibbons, Adams, Engelland and Pyatt depending on opponent and how each player performs.

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03-06-2014, 05:09 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adams27 View Post
Glass-Vitale-Adams or
Glass-Adams-Engelland
Ugh...

You might as well forget any kind of puck possession with that group on the ice.


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03-06-2014, 05:10 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I understand the criticism of Adams but not Glass. Not this season.

The fourth line should be Glass - Vitale and a rotation of Gibbons, Adams, Engelland and Pyatt depending on opponent and how each player performs.
I don't think Glass has looked good by my eye test (which may mean nothing).

Glass is by far the worst of the 3 (and the team, for players with more than 20 games played) in corsi.

Glass is the 17th-worst forward in the league by Corsi.

Maybe Corsi is meaningless. Maybe my eyes are meaningless.

But those two things suggest Glass is not a good player.

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Old
03-06-2014, 05:25 PM
  #37
Ugene Malkin
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The huge upgrade would be Glass, Goc, Engelland.

That's a punishing line.

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03-06-2014, 05:33 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I understand the criticism of Adams but not Glass. Not this season.

The fourth line should be Glass - Vitale and a rotation of Gibbons, Adams, Engelland and Pyatt depending on opponent and how each player performs.
Glass is a 100' player whose game is predicated on someone else (usually the other team) having the puck. He registers a lot of hits, but how often does an opposing player even still have the puck by the time he delivers the hit? It's usually already 3 seconds after the opponent has passed the puck, which puts him even further behind the play than he normally is. Most importantly, there are at least three 4th line eligible players playing better overall than he is. Maybe five?

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Old
03-06-2014, 05:33 PM
  #39
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I love Engelland as a 4th line winger. He brings versatility to the lineup in that role. He can actually be an enforcer in that situation without worrying about putting the team at a disadvantage with only 5 defensemen for 5 minutes. Plus there are situations like in the last game, where a defenseman takes a penalty or fights (like Bortuzzo did, and then Despres went to the box right after), and Engelland can slide back to defense until the penalty is over. That also works for injuries, which seem to happen quite often to our defense.

It doesn't hurt that he has a decent shot and offensive instincts, and can hit pretty hard. He's what you want in a 4th liner. Plus he'd probably be pretty cheap too.

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Old
03-06-2014, 05:49 PM
  #40
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If Dan plays Goc as our 4C, he can't be outta town sooner.

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Old
03-06-2014, 05:55 PM
  #41
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Glass-Vitale-Adams is as set in stone as Excalibur.

I'd like to see Sill-Vitale-Gibbons. Only hesitation I'd have with that would be Gibbons size. 161lb compared to Glass at 210lb, Adams at 200lb and Sill at 200lb.

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03-06-2014, 05:56 PM
  #42
Aiastelmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Glass is a 100' player whose game is predicated on someone else (usually the other team) having the puck. He registers a lot of hits, but how often does an opposing player even still have the puck by the time he delivers the hit? It's usually already 3 seconds after the opponent has passed the puck, which puts him even further behind the play than he normally is. Most importantly, there are at least three 4th line eligible players playing better overall than he is. Maybe five?
The best way to understand Glass as a player is to watch the Pens / Stars game from 1/25. Root Sports likes to tout this game as a high point in Glass' season, since he had a ridiculous 13 hits in the game. The problem is that Dallas held the puck all night, and we lost 3-0. So even when Glass does "his thing" as well as he can, it doesn't contribute to us winning.

In a PO series, good physical play can wear down opposition. But that type of play needs to be a component of what a player brings, and not the entirety of it. Or you'll wear a team down for their next series, and lose like fools.

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Old
03-06-2014, 05:58 PM
  #43
MrBurghundy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiastelmon View Post
The best way to understand Glass as a player is to watch the Pens / Stars game from 1/25. Root Sports likes to tout this game as a high point in Glass' season, since he had a ridiculous 13 hits in the game. The problem is that Dallas held the puck all night, and we lost 3-0. So even when Glass does "his thing" as well as he can, it doesn't contribute to us winning.

In a PO series, good physical play can wear down opposition. But that type of play needs to be a component of what a player brings, and not the entirety of it. Or you'll wear a team down for their next series, and lose like fools.
The only reason why Glass got so many hits in that game was BECAUSE Dallas had the puck all game, and none of our defensive specialists could get the damn thing away from them. All they could do was hit them and block shots, because that's all they're good at.

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03-06-2014, 06:01 PM
  #44
Aiastelmon
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Originally Posted by That1Kid View Post
I agree with this. I don't hate Glass as much as everyone else so I don't mind him in the lineup really. I definitely think Megna and Engo are better, but you can't get what you want with DB. Not a fan of Pyatt or Adams in the lineup.
Pyatt is still better than Glass though, because he does do a few things well. He is strong on the boards, helping with possession and helping his linemates, and he goes to the front of the net. He's helped us score goals and keep the puck in the O zone by doing that stuff.

One of the most frustrating things about Glass is how weak he is along the boards, and how he refuses to plant himself in front of the net. He's a strong guy, and is useless on the boards. So just go screen the tender and wait for a point shot.

It's not like the guy seems scared, he's willing to let Weber rifle shots into him on the PK.

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03-06-2014, 06:02 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
The only reason why Glass got so many hits in that game was BECAUSE Dallas had the puck all game, and none of our defensive specialists could get the damn thing away from them. All they could do was hit them and block shots, because that's all they're good at.
Exactly. The higher Glass' hits stat, the worse for us. That's an issue when it's the only thing you bring to the table.

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03-06-2014, 06:08 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiastelmon View Post
Exactly. The higher Glass' hits stat, the worse for us. That's an issue when it's the only thing you bring to the table.
And all I hear about every ****ing Pens game is how many hits Glass (or Adams, Orpik, etc) gets, or how many shots he blocks. Like that is a ****ing good thing. Then they give out their "Subway Sandwich of the Game," and completely ignore bone crushing checks by Bortuzzo, or Despres, or Bennett when he was in, and give it to pansy ass little checks way after the play is over from guys like Orpik or Adams or Glass. Like they have to keep pumping their tires to sell how awesome these guys are to the fan base trying to justify their spots on the team. Then you get all the yinzers the next day, buying all of this ********, call up sports radio shows saying, "yinz guys think they need ta play Glass more cause da team ain't got no toughness to protect Sid? Yinz see that hit he threw last game!?"

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03-06-2014, 06:17 PM
  #47
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When is Sill coming back? Is he out for the year? Doesn't matter, he won't sniff the roster again this year.

Glass-Vitale-Engelland.

There is absolutely not one thing Craig Adams does better than anybody else on the entire team. Ok, maybe he's a better PK'r than Engelland or Neal. Big deal. He should have been waived with Kobasew.

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Old
03-06-2014, 06:28 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
When is Sill coming back? Is he out for the year? Doesn't matter, he won't sniff the roster again this year.

Glass-Vitale-Engelland.

There is absolutely not one thing Craig Adams does better than anybody else on the entire team. Ok, maybe he's a better PK'r than Engelland or Neal. Big deal. He should have been waived with Kobasew.
Sill, if we're going by advanced stats, is the worst player on the team, by far.

Now, I would argue it's a small sample size, and when he was in there, he was in there with other WBS players, not 4th-line NHLers (he was there in place of Vitale, for example), so there's no way the team puts him there of their own volition.

If we're doing fantasy scenarios where we can actually just build the best lineup, I don't think he cracks it after the Goc/Stempniak acquisitions.

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Old
03-06-2014, 07:10 PM
  #49
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I don't think Glass has looked good by my eye test (which may mean nothing).

Glass is by far the worst of the 3 (and the team, for players with more than 20 games played) in corsi.

Glass is the 17th-worst forward in the league by Corsi.

Maybe Corsi is meaningless. Maybe my eyes are meaningless.

But those two things suggest Glass is not a good player.
Let's list all the things Glass does well (I'll be generous):

Hit
Block shots
Play three post

Let's list all of the things he does poorly:

Stick handle
Work the boards
Skate
Pass
Shoot
Protect the puck
Seal the wall
Score shorthanded

He's a liability that can't cycle the puck and he's atrocious on the boards. When is the last time he won a puck battle? Seriously?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
And all I hear about every ****ing Pens game is how many hits Glass (or Adams, Orpik, etc) gets, or how many shots he blocks. Like that is a ****ing good thing. Then they give out their "Subway Sandwich of the Game," and completely ignore bone crushing checks by Bortuzzo, or Despres, or Bennett when he was in, and give it to pansy ass little checks way after the play is over from guys like Orpik or Adams or Glass. Like they have to keep pumping their tires to sell how awesome these guys are to the fan base trying to justify their spots on the team. Then you get all the yinzers the next day, buying all of this ********, call up sports radio shows saying, "yinz guys think they need ta play Glass more cause da team ain't got no toughness to protect Sid? Yinz see that hit he threw last game!?"
He blocks so many shots because it's a ****ing shooting gallery for the opposition when he and Adams are on the ice. They constantly get hemmed in their own end, but it's cool, because they are irreplaceable on the PK.


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 03-06-2014 at 07:16 PM.
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Old
03-06-2014, 07:24 PM
  #50
catdaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Gibbons - Vitale - Engelland

To me, this is a good mix of speed, toughness, defensive acumen and scoring.
They all kind of compliment each other well and could actually spend some time in the offensive zone for a change and hopefully wear down the opposition. I understand Gibbons not belonging on a traditional Pens 4th line of defensive zone punching bags, but this like has the potential to be something better than a cliche of meaningless buzzwords (grit/sandpaper/energy/etc.). Gibbons has been too good both offensively and defensively to be benched. All 3 of these players can PK and Engelland can swing back to D if necessary.

One thing worth mentioning, now that the Pens look to have a real 3rd line, I expect (hope for?) them to get more ES ice time and the 4th getting less time by default.
I'm in on this. Gibbons' and Vitale's speed could drive other teams' nuts and Engelland is the right compliment of tough and talent to keep things honest. Keep Glass and Pyatt around for some bulk if matchups require more size or Engelland has a turn at D.

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