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Old
08-12-2005, 12:36 PM
  #1
Sens4Cup
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Sens and Leafs Lineups

I'm just doing a comparison of the Sens and Leafs anticipated lineups to see how we stack up. People can feel free to do this with other teams to see how our lineup looks compared to the rest of the league.

Sens lines:

Havlat-Spezza-Alfredsson
Smolinski-Kaigorodov-Hossa
Vermette-Fisher-Schaefer
Varada-Kelly-Neil

Phillips-Chara
Redden-Volchenkov
de Vries-Pothier

Hasek
Emery

Leafs lines:

Lindros-Sundin-O'Neill
Antropov-Allison-Ponikarovsky
Stajan-Steen-Tucker
Perrott-Kilger-Domi

McCabe-Kaberle
Klee-Khavanov
Berg-Belak

Belfour
Tellqvist

Evaluation:

I think we're looking pretty good compared to the Leafs. The Leafs do have good depth at center with Sundin, Lindros and Allison, but that's about all they have. Antropov may not even end up on the team if he goes to Russia. The Leafs have 4 new players coming in, and with Allison and Lindros they get high maintenance former stars so there's a good chance of this blowing up. Toronto's d-men also are looking quite brutal with their 3rd pairing being laughable at best. And a top 2 of Kaberle and McCabe leaves alot to be desired. While each of them can produce offensively, their defensive lapses are well known.

As for our Sens they look to be in a great position. If Fisher can stay healthy I think this team will have enough 'grit' to do well. Our top 2 lines should produce the majority of the goals, with the Havlat-Spezza-Alfie line likely to produce 100 goals and another 150 assists if we're lucky. Starting Kai off with Hossa should give him a great shot at being a top center. Smoke will work well in the next year or two as a mentor to Kai, and to take faceoffs at more crucial times. Our D is one of the best and fastest in the league. With all of our d-men having good offensive potential, the new line changes should improve their stats, and allow a solid transition game.

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Old
08-12-2005, 12:52 PM
  #2
DarthKoRn
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Dont know if I agree with that lineup. Defence is a no-brainer, but up front I think:

Havlat-Spezza-Hossa
Varada-Smolinski-Alfredson
Vermette-Fisher-Schaefer
Kaigorodov-Kelly-Neil

Really feels like I'm missing someone though.

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Old
08-12-2005, 01:05 PM
  #3
sensens
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Kaigorodov as the 2nd line centre is hardly part of our "anticipated" lineup... though if we are ready to trade off Smolinski, there would be a hole in the top-6. I think he'd have to have one hell of a training camp to move into a top-6 role, though... personally, I'd say that right now something along the following lines is more probable...

Varada-Spezza-Hossa
Havlat-Fisher-Alfredsson
Schaefer-Vermette-Eaves

Maybe I'm a bit high on Eaves, but I think he's going to be a fan favorite in a matter of weeks. You might see a 4th line of Langfeld-Kaigorodov-Neil (it's an outside prediction of mine that you'll see Langfeld re-signed if Smolinski is traded), or alternatively, you might see someone like Kelly or Hamel get that call on the LW.

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Old
08-12-2005, 01:10 PM
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I think in mid-season one of Kaigorodov or Vermette will be on the 2nd line. I'd like to see this for a 3rd line: Schaefer - Fisher/Smolinski - Varada. One of Fisher/Smoke will be the 2nd line LW or C. Also, if our cap hit is around 37M all year, we can bring our payroll up to 41M at the trade deadline, which could get us a pretty good player.

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Old
08-12-2005, 01:17 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Cup
Sens lines:

Havlat-Spezza-Alfredsson
Smolinski-Kaigorodov-Hossa
Vermette-Fisher-Schaefer
Varada-Kelly-Neil

Phillips-Chara
Redden-de Vries
Volchenkov-Pothier

Hasek
Emery

Leafs lines:

Tucker-Sundin-O'Neill
Antropov-Allison-Lindros
Stajan-Steen-Ponikarovsky
Perrott-Kilger-Domi
Belak

McCabe-Kaberle
Klee-Khavanov
Berg-Pilar

Belfour
Tellqvist
Some people may think it's minor, but I'm still a little concerned with anybody who did not play competitively last season. What kind of shape are they in? Are they rusty? When will they catch up to players who played last season? Have they lost anything?

*Players in bold did not play in a competitive league last season (not counting tournaments).

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Old
08-12-2005, 01:17 PM
  #6
Twist and Shout
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Leafs bottom D pairing should be Pilar-Berg

Belak is basically an extra guy who can play forward and D. Colaiacovo will have a good chance to make the big team.

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Old
08-12-2005, 01:19 PM
  #7
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IMO, Leafs are gonna haveta sign one of Mogilny, LeClair, or Carter before season starts for a good line-up. Antropov will be back. Lindros can't play LW, and I don't think that he should play C.

O'Neill - Sundin - Mogilny/Carter/Lindros
Tucker - Allison - Lindros/Carter/Mogilny
Antropov - Stajan - Ponikarovsky
Kilger - Steen/Kukumberg - Domi

If healthy (and Allison and Lindros playing like their old selves, Lindros being the NYR one woudl be fine) I would say we've got a solid line-up. And why put Berg and Belak in the last pairing, we've got Pilar and Colaiacovo. Both can learn from playing with experienced partners and Pilar and Klee pairing could allow Pilar to show his offense play more.

McCabe - Kaberle
Khavanov - Colaiacovo
Klee - Pilar

All of this for over 32 mill.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cwhite1/

Edit: Kukumberg just signed.


Last edited by It Kills Me: 08-12-2005 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
08-12-2005, 01:22 PM
  #8
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles.TML
All of this for over 32 mill.
What was the last word on Allison's bonuses/potential cap hit?

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08-12-2005, 01:41 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
What was the last word on Allison's bonuses/potential cap hit?
Won't count this season (1.5 mill against the cap), if he hits the bonus level and Leafs have an option for a second year and they take it, it'll count next season. Atleast that's what I've been hearing.

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Old
08-12-2005, 02:13 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles.TML
Won't count this season (1.5 mill against the cap), if he hits the bonus level and Leafs have an option for a second year and they take it, it'll count next season. Atleast that's what I've been hearing.
There doesn't seem to be anything definitive on the Business Board.

Since the CBA has not been released, this seems to be the only source right now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhl.com
A Club's payroll will include all salaries, signing bonuses and performance bonuses paid to players.

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Old
08-12-2005, 02:24 PM
  #11
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Kaigorodov?

I don't see this guy coming over this year and even if he did I don't like the idea of using Spezza and Kaigorodov as your 1 and 2 centers. I think Smolinski is a better fit there and would be pretty effective playing with Hossa (who wouldn't). I believe in the playoffs Smolinski was a 62% in the faceoff circle, so hopefully he can keep that up this year. So with no Kaigorodov, I think one of Eaves or McGrattan would make the club. Here's how I see Ottawa's forward lineup:

Havlat-Spezza-Alfredsson
Schaefer-Smolinski-Hossa
Vermette-Fisher-Neil
Varada-Kelly-McGrattan/Eaves

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08-12-2005, 02:27 PM
  #12
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Geez, I guess the Leafs should just go ahead and forfeit all their games against the Senators before the season starts.


Last edited by Kenadyan: 08-12-2005 at 02:49 PM.
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Old
08-12-2005, 02:30 PM
  #13
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Why do people want Hossa to play with Spezza over Alfy. I have seen this alot but I have not heard a reason for it. As I see it, Hossa is best when he has the puck deep in the other team's zone, and so is Spezza. Alfredson is better through the neutral zone, and has a very good shot. An Alfy-Spezza one timer could be destructive and could allow Havlat to disappear in the defance. With the Havlat, Alfy Spezza line you give Spezza four great options--> Redden and Alfy in behind the play, Havlat near the net and his own shot. Its like Nash with the Suns. Hossa, meanwhile will still get the puck and can make the second line a very dangerous threat too.

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08-12-2005, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
There doesn't seem to be anything definitive on the Business Board.

Since the CBA has not been released, this seems to be the only source right now:
But I remember TSN saying that they are waiting for confirmation from the league on whether or not Lindros' bonuses would count against the cap. Also, I'm sure JF took his time and didn't sign Roberts and Nieuwy because he was reading about this in the 600 page CBA?

Okay quick search and this is what I got.
Quote:
While the new CBA has a provision to exempt bonuses from the salary cap in some cases where a player has a long term injury, Lindros does not qualify.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=133050

I'll go on this, but either way I heard Allison's bonuses weren't much either.

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Old
08-12-2005, 02:36 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenadyan
Geez, I guess the Leafs should just go ahead and forfeit all their games against the Senators before the season starts.
That's way too many games to just forfeit. I think it's 8.. That's a very likely 16 points for us Leaf fans. .. Also forfeiting a game? Why would the Sens and Leafs want to lose all that revenue they could've earned from those games?

But I'm sure you were being sarcastic. but there is a button for it.

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08-12-2005, 02:38 PM
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trentmccleary
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Has or had?

Anyways, I found Messenger's link to the Star on the Leafs board and JFJ doesn't seem to think they count. It looked like $2.9M out of a possible $3M wouldn't count.

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08-12-2005, 02:44 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
Has or had?

Anyways, I found Messenger's link to the Star on the Leafs board and JFJ doesn't seem to think they count. It looked like $2.9M out of a possible $3M wouldn't count.
Is that that they don't count this year or don't count at all? Because I was pretty sure any bonuses in new contracts had to count against the cap, it was just for performance bonuses that they would count the following year, as the player's performance would only be known at the end of the season.

With Hasek his bonuses don't seem to count at all since his deal was signed before the new CBA, but I'm not sure that any deal signed under the new CBA can have bonuses that are exempt.

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08-12-2005, 02:50 PM
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It just seems to say in general, they won't count. I would assume that includes next season as well.
Hasek would be in the same situation with his injury history... but I don't know if the bonuses have to be for certain things according to the CBA. But even then, the Cap is probably Ottawa's maximum budget.

The "bonuses counting next year" idea, looks like pre-CBA speculation (based on the NFL I guess).

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08-12-2005, 03:12 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
But I'm sure you were being sarcastic. but there is a button for it.
Nice avatar, btw... good job. Looks classy.

(edit: I realise I sound sarcastic, since I'm replying to a post about sarcasm, but I'm not!)

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08-12-2005, 04:12 PM
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hossa isnt even signed yet, and your centres dont look to be very solid. both goalies are iffy with injuries, age, etc. overall, i think both teams are solid, but i still think the Leafs would take them in a 7 games series based on experience, and my prediction that 2 of oneil, lindros and allison will bounce back with a big season.

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08-12-2005, 04:14 PM
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They will have to survive 8 meetings with Chara and Volchenkov.

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08-12-2005, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champben2002
They will have to survive 8 meetings with Chara and Volchenkov.
will volchenkov survive? he seems to be as injury prone as some of the leafs that are singled out. played 59 and 19 games in his last two nhl years and not sure how many he missed playing in russia

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Old
08-12-2005, 04:21 PM
  #23
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much like the game on this board trying to choose which pieces of core you would choose for the future, why dont we play which of the 3 leaf players will actually bounce back. I am going to say Oneill will have a big year as long as Sundin stays healthy, Lindros will be back and forth from the IR, while Allison will get better as the season goes on. His game was never based on speed, so i dont believe the game will pass him by. If its not a reoccuring injury, he might be the best pickup of the summer for his price.

I still like our team a ton more, even if all 3 pan out, our d is levels above, so we are in good shape.

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08-12-2005, 04:22 PM
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Well since he didnt play in Russia I would assume none.
He was busy hammering ahl'ers.

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Old
08-12-2005, 04:26 PM
  #25
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What was that talk about Anton playing in Russia this season?

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