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NYI holds the 5th pick; June 1st drop-dead date on conditional 1st – Part II

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04-21-2014, 12:20 PM
  #801
EichHart
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Garth wouldn't 100% commit but said he would "wager any amount of money that they will retain this years first round pick

https://twitter.com/gmen8069/status/456944307682172928

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04-21-2014, 12:21 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Only by default. Stafford is exactly the opposite of consistent.
In terms of production, sure.

In terms of showing up/coming to play, you're wrong. He's developed into a quality hockey player.

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04-21-2014, 12:21 PM
  #803
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Was there some sort of technical error with the forums software that caused this post to be posted a year late or something?
That's funny

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04-21-2014, 12:59 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Tank For Reinhart View Post
Garth wouldn't 100% commit but said he would "wager any amount of money that they will retain this years first round pick

https://twitter.com/gmen8069/status/456944307682172928
That doesn't make much sense. The decision is in his hands.

Why would he wager (even rhetorically) on a decision that is his to make? It's a nonsense statement to make.

He should just say that he is strongly inclined to keep the pick but doesn't have to make the decision til June 1st so he's not going to commit to it.

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04-21-2014, 01:08 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
That doesn't make much sense. The decision is in his hands.

Why would he wager (even rhetorically) on a decision that is his to make? It's a nonsense statement to make.

He should just say that he is strongly inclined to keep the pick but doesn't have to make the decision til June 1st so he's not going to commit to it.
It didn't make much sense to me at first either. But what if Garth isn't the only one involved making the decision. Knowing how the NYI management work who even knows who is charge of making decisions. For all we know Wang is the one determining who makes the call.

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04-21-2014, 01:24 PM
  #806
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1652649

If Garth does this.....


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04-21-2014, 01:30 PM
  #807
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Thats hilarious. I was joking about Garth trading the 5th for Reimer earlier in the thread.

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04-21-2014, 01:40 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by WhoIsJimBob View Post
If they really want to do that, I say we trade them either Enroth or Neuvirth.

Then we can have BOTH NYI first-rounders, this year and next year.

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04-21-2014, 02:01 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
If they really want to do that, I say we trade them either Enroth or Neuvirth.

Then we can have BOTH NYI first-rounders, this year and next year.
I'd give them both Enroth & Neuvy for 5.


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04-21-2014, 04:01 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Tank For Reinhart View Post
It didn't make much sense to me at first either. But what if Garth isn't the only one involved making the decision. Knowing how the NYI management work who even knows who is charge of making decisions. For all we know Wang is the one determining who makes the call.
You were half-kidding, but it would not be without precident.. Milbury didn't wanna give Yashin his contract.. Neil Smith didn't wanna give DiPietro his.

Wang over-ruled both.

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04-21-2014, 04:11 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
You were half-kidding, but it would not be without precident.. Milbury didn't wanna give Yashin his contract.. Neil Smith didn't wanna give DiPietro his.

Wang over-ruled both.
Are you serious?

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04-24-2014, 05:38 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by Tank For Reinhart View Post
Are you serious?
He isn't totally correct. Wang has never orchestrated a trade and I've seen no evidence that he micro-manages Snow on that level. He did instruct Milbury to make the Yashin deal (I have seen no evidence that he overruled Milbury) and he had basically negotiated the Dipietro contract before Snow was even hired.

The post above makes it sound like Snow/Milbury resisted those contracts, and there is no reason to believe that is the case.

Those two deals costs Wang a combined 40 million to get out from under.

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04-24-2014, 05:49 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
He isn't totally correct. Wang has never orchestrated a trade and I've seen no evidence that he micro-manages Snow on that level. He did instruct Milbury to make the Yashin deal (I have seen no evidence that he overruled Milbury) and he had basically negotiated the Dipietro contract before Snow was even hired.

The post above makes it sound like Snow/Milbury resisted those contracts, and there is no reason to believe that is the case.

Those two deals costs Wang a combined 40 million to get out from under.
To be fair, it doesn't say that Wang over-ruled Snow on the DiPietro contract, but that Wang over-ruled Smith. I don't know the exact timeline or reasoning behind the Smith firing/Snow hiring, but I can understand coming to that conclusion on that.

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04-25-2014, 11:43 AM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Tank For Reinhart View Post
Are you serious?
Wang and Milbury-Yashin...

Wang and Smith-DiPietro...

We've seen this millions of times over the recorded history of man...

Thinking with your Wang overules common sense.


Last edited by brian_griffin: 04-25-2014 at 01:15 PM.
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04-27-2014, 02:50 PM
  #815
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Don't know how reliable this site is and have not seen absolute confirmations elsewhere (other than hearsay)...

http://www.islandersinsight.com/2014...aft-selection/

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04-27-2014, 03:14 PM
  #816
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Well, that's probably just someone speculating off other reports, as Friedman noted these two points earlier this morning:
Quote:
9. Long Island News 12 producer Rob Del Muro with a good tip: Islanders GM Garth Snow attended a season-ticket holder event last week and told one fan, "It would be a safe wager on his part that we would utilize this year's (first-round draft) pick." The team has until June 1 to let the Buffalo Sabres know about the selection. If not, Buffalo gets New York's 2015 first-rounder. The GM added the fan "could wager any amount of money because it wasn't MY money." Good line.

10. Snow also said the Islanders had a deal worked out for a goalie, but backed off when the trade partner asked for Brock Nelson.

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04-29-2014, 11:31 AM
  #817
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http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/nhl-...AFTPICKDILEMMA

New ESPN Insider article on what the Islanders should do...

Quote:
Provenzano: The Isles are caught between a pick and a hard place. Use your (known) pick now and find yourself a lottery team with lots of ping pong balls again next year, and you arbitrarily took yourself out of the sweepstakes to get a potentially franchise-altering cornerstone player in McDavid or Eichel. Transfer the pick this year and right the ship next season, and you gave away a top 5 prospect for a mid first-round pick.

If I was in GM Snow’s shoes (and thankfully, in this instance, I am not) I use the pick this June to get what my scouts feel is the fifth-best prospect in the draft, and transfer my first-rounder next season to the Sabres. Despite the chance that New York could take themselves out of the running in the McDavid/Eichel sweepstakes, the Islanders set themselves on this path when they made the Vanek trade in the first place.

New York is an organization that has been building for the future since the 2004-05 lockout. They have a young core of players that have been assembled through successive high draft positions, and an impending move to the hipster mecca that is Brooklyn. With all of those factors colliding, the future is now.

Hedging their bets to protect against losing the potential 1st or 2nd overall pick in 2015 sends a schizophrenic message -- to both their fan base and their current players -- on where the organization’s focus lies. If the Islanders don’t use the 5th overall pick this June, and follow that up by not finding a better solution for their NHL net this summer, then it may be only a matter of time before players like Tavares and Okposo start to reconsider their long-term futures with New York’s “other” team.

In sports, perception has a tendency to become reality. The Islanders need to prove that this season was an aberration on their path back to competitive respectability, and should concentrate instead on shoring up the weaknesses in their lineup that kept them out of this spring’s playoff dance. The 2015 draft lottery should be someone else’s concern.
Quote:
Pronman: I think the Islanders should keep the pick, but that's due to a cold, mathematical look at the situation; my job isn't on the line if things go sour again for the Islanders in 2014-15. Islanders management needs to decide whether taking a player that is among the top 5 of his class is enough to risk the downside of missing a franchise-altering player like McDavid or Eichel.

If the Islanders have it in their minds that they are a better team that what they were this season – as Frank argues -- it's really hard for them to move the 5th overall pick, given the message it sends to everyone.

Whether they keep the pick or send it to Buffalo, the team’s performance next season hinges on whether they can find a decent starting goaltender this offseason. If the Islanders come into next season with no goalie changes, they may find themselves in the lottery again this time next year. If they do, they won’t have any dilemma to consider.


Last edited by Woodhouse: 04-29-2014 at 11:43 AM. Reason: copyright
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04-29-2014, 11:47 AM
  #818
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I don't know where they came up with this:
Quote:
More importantly, it’s likely that either player will be a better prospect in general than the seventh to ninth best prospect in 2015 (assuming that the Isles finish around 21st overall).
And I don't know how Pronman can claim a "mathematical" approach, when a core component of their position is the message it would send the fan base

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04-29-2014, 02:09 PM
  #819
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People on here seem to be making the assumption that the #10 pick next year will be SO much better than the #5 pick this year. But even with the stronger draft, I find it hard to believe that there'll be such a huge gap between those two prospects in 5 years. In the end, unless they win the lottery, it'll be a wash for the Isles in the long-run either year they pick, IMO. More likely than not, they end up with a similarly-tiered played either year they pick.

There is no consensus on this decision in media because it's a total gamble, either way. The lottery ticket (and the fact that the Isles could likely end up at #5 again next year, which is not impossible) would make me want to pick next year, but when you take the whole "message to the fans" aspect into consideration, I don't really see a big difference.

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04-29-2014, 05:16 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
And I don't know how Pronman can claim a "mathematical" approach, when a core component of their position is the message it would send the fan base
I think he means if Islanders pick 10th(which would mean finishing 21st) or later, then keeping the 5th pick is a better option. I think the mathematical approach assumes they have better goaltending next season(ie it can't get much worse)

Quote:
To see how comparable teams did after these kinds of campaigns, I took data from the past five seasons and looked for all teams who had even-strength shot differentials within a 2 percent range of the Islanders’ this season, and had an even-strength save percentage under.910.

Of this group -- with the Islanders’ shot differential and comparable goaltending -- the average finish was 25th that season and 21st in the following season. If the Isles follow suit, this gives them a 2.1 percent chance of getting the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NHL draft lottery.

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04-29-2014, 06:57 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Phineas Phage View Post
People on here seem to be making the assumption that the #10 pick next year will be SO much better than the #5 pick this year. But even with the stronger draft, I find it hard to believe that there'll be such a huge gap between those two prospects in 5 years. In the end, unless they win the lottery, it'll be a wash for the Isles in the long-run either year they pick, IMO. More likely than not, they end up with a similarly-tiered played either year they pick.

There is no consensus on this decision in media because it's a total gamble, either way. The lottery ticket (and the fact that the Isles could likely end up at #5 again next year, which is not impossible) would make me want to pick next year, but when you take the whole "message to the fans" aspect into consideration, I don't really see a big difference.
It seems to be a pretty prevelant opinion around these parts and from what i've seen I don't neccessarily agree. I'm no draft expert nor do I watch anywhere near as much junior hockey as some do here, but I'd rather have Dal Colle or Draisaitl than someone like Dylan Strome (who by all accounts looks to be a top 10 pick in 2015). Now obviously the risk of the isles being even worse next year and handing the sabres one of McDavid or Eichel makes it a gamble, but it's a risk I would take if I were in Snow's position. Might be a bit off topic, but who are these prospects that project to go in that 5-10 range next year that look that much better than Dal Colle or Draisaitl?

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04-29-2014, 07:12 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
It seems to be a pretty prevelant opinion around these parts and from what i've seen I don't neccessarily agree. I'm no draft expert nor do I watch anywhere near as much junior hockey as some do here, but I'd rather have Dal Colle or Draisaitl than someone like Dylan Strome (who by all accounts looks to be a top 10 pick in 2015). Now obviously the risk of the isles being even worse next year and handing the sabres one of McDavid or Eichel makes it a gamble, but it's a risk I would take if I were in Snow's position. Might be a bit off topic, but who are these prospects that project to go in that 5-10 range next year that look that much better than Dal Colle or Draisaitl?
Let me preface this by saying that a lot can change in a year...but right now I take all these prospects in the 2015 over MDC, Ehlers, Ritchie or Virtanen...or whoever else is in consideration at 5.
1. McDavid 2. Eichel 3. Hanifin/Konecny/Barzal 6. Colin White/Pavel Zacha.

The grouping of Kylington, Strome and Roys is where there is a grey area. But again, anything can happen in a years time. Players rise and fall and that is the nature of the beast. But if the Isles finish in the bottom 7 in 2015, I run my pick to the podium next year.

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04-29-2014, 07:13 PM
  #823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
It seems to be a pretty prevelant opinion around these parts and from what i've seen I don't neccessarily agree. Might be a bit off topic, but who are these prospects that project to go in that 5-10 range next year that look that much better than Dal Colle or Draisaitl?

I tend to agree that the 10th prospect next year won't be BETTER than a guy like Dal Colle.

At best, I think he'll be even with Dal Colle or maybe just a half-step down.

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04-29-2014, 07:13 PM
  #824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
It seems to be a pretty prevelant opinion around these parts and from what i've seen I don't neccessarily agree. I'm no draft expert nor do I watch anywhere near as much junior hockey as some do here, but I'd rather have Dal Colle or Draisaitl than someone like Dylan Strome (who by all accounts looks to be a top 10 pick in 2015). Now obviously the risk of the isles being even worse next year and handing the sabres one of McDavid or Eichel makes it a gamble, but it's a risk I would take if I were in Snow's position. Might be a bit off topic, but who are these prospects that project to go in that 5-10 range next year that look that much better than Dal Colle or Draisaitl?
Konecny for starters.

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04-29-2014, 07:15 PM
  #825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottsabrefan View Post
Konecny for starters.
FWIW, I think Konecny will end up as a lock for a top 5 pick and I do like him better than Dal Colle.

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