HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Brian Gionta (negotiations w/Habs are underway)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-10-2014, 12:50 PM
  #51
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Sounds exactly like what I said. Keep working the agenda.
In your assessment of Gio you wrote zero about the size issue, which strongly suggests you don't think it matters. So yeah while that opinion may reflect the Habs lineup it is out of whack with how the other 29 NHL teams are managing their rosters.

JLP is offline  
Old
03-10-2014, 12:51 PM
  #52
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaP View Post
That was 4 years ago. Gionta is now 35. He is not underappreciated. He will barely do 40 points this season despite playing 18 minutes every game. AK got critized a lot more for similar seasons offensively speaking. It's not like Gionta is selke material. He is okay defensively but he needs to do more offensively to be useful at the salary he has. Right now when he is on the ice the CH is mostly always stuck in his own zone.
Well the year after he had 5pts in 7 games, then the season after he got injured and we proceeded to the worst season in a very long time and missed the playoffs. Then the playoffs after he was injured but still put 1pt in 2 games.

21pts in 28 games over 4 years. Led the team in goals scored during the regular season twice, and is 4th this year (Not counting Vanek). Looks like pretty decent numbers to me considering he's on the main shutdown line.

Maybe his line gets outshot because they start in the defensive zone more than 60% of the time.

I don't think anyone wants him back at 5m but there's a big difference between not wanting him back and not wanting to pay a premium for his services.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
03-10-2014, 01:50 PM
  #53
Mats NAslund
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,156
vCash: 50
not sure if this had been mentioned or not but

http://www.hockey30.com/nouvelles/gi...t-dit-non-aux/

According to Jimmy Murphy (Reporter) NJ offered a 2nd and a prospect for Gionta and Bergevin turned them down!

If this is true Bergevin should be fired

Making that trade would have a meant Montreal making out like bandits in the trade deadline!

Getting Vanek and a 5th for Gionta....LOL

IF Montreal resigns Gionta...Holly **** Batman!

Mats NAslund is offline  
Old
03-10-2014, 02:02 PM
  #54
Runner77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
not sure if this had been mentioned or not but

http://www.hockey30.com/nouvelles/gi...t-dit-non-aux/

According to Jimmy Murphy (Reporter) NJ offered a 2nd and a prospect for Gionta and Bergevin turned them down!

If this is true Bergevin should be fired

Making that trade would have a meant Montreal making out like bandits in the trade deadline!

Getting Vanek and a 5th for Gionta....LOL

IF Montreal resigns Gionta...Holly **** Batman!
I went straight to the source, as Hockey30 is typically frowned upon.

From Jimmy Murphy's XN column:

Quote:
Heading into the deadline it was suggested here that the Devils try to pry away former Devil and unrestricted free agent to be Brian Gionta from Montreal and it was confirmed to Murph’s Musings on Sunday that did indeed happen. According to one source close to the negotiations, the Devils offered a prospect and a second round pick but were told the Habs captain wasn’t available as the deadline grew closer even though he was last month before the Canadiens began to play better heading into the Olympic break.
I'm not familiar with Murphy's writing, however, the source being alluded to seems to be well-placed even if it is un-named. Looking further, Murphy seems to have a credible resume in the hockey world:

Quote:
James Murphy is a freelance reporter who also writes for NHL.com. He covered the Boston Bruins/NHL for last 11 seasons writing for ESPNBoston.com, ESPN.com, NHL.com, NESN.com, Insidehockey.com and Le Hockey Magazine. Murphy also currently hosts “Murphy’s Hockey Law” (Saturdays 9-11 AM ET on Sirius/XM NHL Network Radio and 4-6 PM ET on Websportsmedia.com. He is also a regular guest TSN 690 in Montreal and Sirius/XM NHL Network Radio.

Runner77 is offline  
Old
03-10-2014, 02:07 PM
  #55
habs999
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 53
vCash: 500
The goal is to get bigger not stay small. Gionta is at best a third liner there are plenty of big third liners that are just as good as Gionta if not better. I hate seeing him on the second line with Plekanec and Vanek, wasting their potential IMO...

habs999 is offline  
Old
03-10-2014, 02:17 PM
  #56
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs999 View Post
The goal is to get bigger not stay small. Gionta is at best a third liner there are plenty of big third liners that are just as good as Gionta if not better. I hate seeing him on the second line with Plekanec and Vanek, wasting their potential IMO...
That's what I thought but 1) Gomez out and Briere in; 2) Gorges out and Weaver in . . .

If the rumor that NJ offered a 2nd & prospect for Gio is true it's too bad MB declined. Effectively this means we are renting Gio for about the same price as we paid for Vanek.

JLP is offline  
Old
03-10-2014, 02:29 PM
  #57
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,259
vCash: 50
Hopefully not, his defensive ability is overrated from being stapled to Plekanec. He has not been shown as someone that can be mixed and matched onto different lines. There really shouldn't be any reason to bring him back. But hey, if Habs were willing to signed an older Briere to 2 year contract...Gionta likely will be back in the top 6 next season.

Habs already have a lot of non-versatility in the top 9, no need for more forced lines.

Watsatheo is offline  
Old
03-10-2014, 04:18 PM
  #58
FazChenyuk
Registered User
 
FazChenyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 968
vCash: 500
I guess Bergevin like the '' character'' in Brian. Like I said, I think he should be gone if we re-sign I better hope its for bottom 6 duties

FazChenyuk is offline  
Old
03-10-2014, 07:54 PM
  #59
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,080
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
In your assessment of Gio you wrote zero about the size issue, which strongly suggests you don't think it matters. So yeah while that opinion may reflect the Habs lineup it is out of whack with how the other 29 NHL teams are managing their rosters.
Just because I didn't write my opinion on ANOTHER subject, doesn't mean you're free to assume it as you wish.

We have a size issue but Gionta is still better than Bourque despite being smaller.

The reason we want to get bigger is so we can perform better as ES I'd imagine rather than relying on a PP with small skilled players. I brought up one guy who despite his size has very good ES numbers.

In my opinion people often forget the objective and skip towards the perceived solution.

The goal is to become a better team, one suggestion is to get bigger players who will make us better. On Hfboards we have decided to forget the goal of becoming a better team, skip towards the solution and then cut it down to "we need to get bigger". The goal always remains to get better. In my opinion, Bourque and another big guy addresses the size issue, but does it make us a better team? Remember the end goal, to become better and Gionta's ES numbers are part of the solution, not the problem.


Last edited by LyricalLyricist: 03-10-2014 at 08:24 PM.
LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
03-11-2014, 08:37 AM
  #60
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,625
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Just because I didn't write my opinion on ANOTHER subject, doesn't mean you're free to assume it as you wish.

We have a size issue but Gionta is still better than Bourque despite being smaller.

The reason we want to get bigger is so we can perform better as ES I'd imagine rather than relying on a PP with small skilled players. I brought up one guy who despite his size has very good ES numbers.

In my opinion people often forget the objective and skip towards the perceived solution.

The goal is to become a better team, one suggestion is to get bigger players who will make us better. On Hfboards we have decided to forget the goal of becoming a better team, skip towards the solution and then cut it down to "we need to get bigger". The goal always remains to get better. In my opinion, Bourque and another big guy addresses the size issue, but does it make us a better team? Remember the end goal, to become better and Gionta's ES numbers are part of the solution, not the problem.
The problem is Gionta is somehow nailed to Plekanec's hip by Therrien. Gionta has not been relegated to being a 3rd line winger (which he should be, especially now). He has no shot, he's a black hole offensively, and he just can't read the skill of high level players. The majority of his goals now come from the side of the net or scrambles.

WeThreeKings is offline  
Old
03-11-2014, 09:41 AM
  #61
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
And for those that think we can easily replace him on the FA market, how did replacing Ryder with Briere work out for us?
13-14

--------GP--G--A---P
Ryder: 65--16-13-29
Briere: 53--11-10-21

onice is offline  
Old
03-11-2014, 12:30 PM
  #62
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Just because I didn't write my opinion on ANOTHER subject, doesn't mean you're free to assume it as you wish.

We have a size issue but Gionta is still better than Bourque despite being smaller.

The reason we want to get bigger is so we can perform better as ES I'd imagine rather than relying on a PP with small skilled players. I brought up one guy who despite his size has very good ES numbers.

In my opinion people often forget the objective and skip towards the perceived solution.

The goal is to become a better team, one suggestion is to get bigger players who will make us better. On Hfboards we have decided to forget the goal of becoming a better team, skip towards the solution and then cut it down to "we need to get bigger". The goal always remains to get better. In my opinion, Bourque and another big guy addresses the size issue, but does it make us a better team? Remember the end goal, to become better and Gionta's ES numbers are part of the solution, not the problem.
I think a big disconnect in your posts about DD and Gionta is assessing players individually instead of looking at the the big picture, ie the team and the league.

The entire Western Conference has ONE player who is 5'9" or shorter out of 322 players. 1/322. Less than one-third of one percent of the Western Con players are that friggin tiny.

Meanwhile the Habs have FIVE such players. That's 22% of our roster. And most of our top-six forwards. This is a physical limitation that impacts what our squad can and cannot do on the ice.

Maybe the skill level of our midgets is good. But other teams don't want them, that's the message. No other team has built such a small roster. So any arguments about a small player's skill making up for his size to the degree that size does not matter, arguments to that effect are not endorsed by the rest of professional hockey.

If some of us here want Gio gone next year it is not because we want a crap big guy. No one is suggesting that would be a good idea. And arguing that we should keep Gio because he's "better" than out worst big guy (Bourque) is similarly flawed reasoning.

Of course if Gio skates through Chara's legs and scores the Game 7 GWG in May I'll admit that the smurf strategy is genius and I was wrong.

JLP is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 12:31 AM
  #63
Stripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 623
vCash: 500
A 2nd + prospect for Brian Gionta.... We basically would have traded Gionta for Vanek....

Stripper is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 06:40 AM
  #64
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
A 2nd + prospect for Brian Gionta.... We basically would have traded Gionta for Vanek....
Who plays right wing then? It'd be Gallagher and... ummm... Weise? We'd pretty much be trading Gionta for Bourque because he'd never leave the lineup if there was no Gionta.

No Team Needed is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 08:40 AM
  #65
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
I think a big disconnect in your posts about DD and Gionta is assessing players individually instead of looking at the the big picture, ie the team and the league.

The entire Western Conference has ONE player who is 5'9" or shorter out of 322 players. 1/322. Less than one-third of one percent of the Western Con players are that friggin tiny.

Meanwhile the Habs have FIVE such players. That's 22% of our roster. And most of our top-six forwards. This is a physical limitation that impacts what our squad can and cannot do on the ice.

Maybe the skill level of our midgets is good. But other teams don't want them, that's the message. No other team has built such a small roster. So any arguments about a small player's skill making up for his size to the degree that size does not matter, arguments to that effect are not endorsed by the rest of professional hockey.

If some of us here want Gio gone next year it is not because we want a crap big guy. No one is suggesting that would be a good idea. And arguing that we should keep Gio because he's "better" than out worst big guy (Bourque) is similarly flawed reasoning.

Of course if Gio skates through Chara's legs and scores the Game 7 GWG in May I'll admit that the smurf strategy is genius and I was wrong.
I agree the Habs need to get bigger, however the whole "Western conference is big" thing is overblow.

Anaheim has Cogliano, Koivu, Perreault, Palmieri, Vatanen who are all 5'10" and play regular minutes.

Chicago has Kane Shaw Leddy Kruger Oduya are well below average size.

Colorado has Duchene Parenteau Tanguay Benoit Talbot Barrie who are below average size players, all sub 6' or below 200lbs.

The Blues similarly have Oshie, Schwartz Roy and Sobotka are all below average sized regulars.

I think on the Habs if you let Gionta Briere and Bouillon walk and replace them with average or bigger players then it becomes a non issue. Bouillon has barely dressed the last 3 months so on defense it's not an issue, most nights Mrakov at 6' 207 or Gorges at 6'1" 203lbs are the smallest guys with behemoths like Murray and Tinordi there.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 09:01 AM
  #66
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I agree the Habs need to get bigger, however the whole "Western conference is big" thing is overblow.

Anaheim has Cogliano, Koivu, Perreault, Palmieri, Vatanen who are all 5'10" and play regular minutes.

Chicago has Kane Shaw Leddy Kruger Oduya are well below average size.

Colorado has Duchene Parenteau Tanguay Benoit Talbot Barrie who are below average size players, all sub 6' or below 200lbs.

The Blues similarly have Oshie, Schwartz Roy and Sobotka are all below average sized regulars.

I think on the Habs if you let Gionta Briere and Bouillon walk and replace them with average or bigger players then it becomes a non issue. Bouillon has barely dressed the last 3 months so on defense it's not an issue, most nights Mrakov at 6' 207 or Gorges at 6'1" 203lbs are the smallest guys with behemoths like Murray and Tinordi there.
Of course some other teams have some below-average-sized players -- but no NHL team has the number of players with the degree of smallness that the Habs do. Not even close. Tonight vs Boston we'll have SIX skaters who are 5'9" or shorter. I would guess that's an NHL record.

Back on topic I'm glad we agree letting Gionta walk would be a good thing, even though he's still got some skills looking at the big picture he's just not a good fit for our squad.

JLP is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 11:26 AM
  #67
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
13-14

--------GP--G--A---P
Ryder: 65--16-13-29
Briere: 53--11-10-21
Like I said it didn't work out, we lost a top-6 player and gained a top-9 player. That's a 30% loss in production for the player. Plus it's a potential reason our PP has suffered.

And it costs us more money.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 02:38 PM
  #68
Stripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Who plays right wing then? It'd be Gallagher and... ummm... Weise? We'd pretty much be trading Gionta for Bourque because he'd never leave the lineup if there was no Gionta.
Who cares? We can put Prust on the right of Plekanec for all I care. It's not like all the players on our roster are playing on their natural positions. Or you can just call up Andrighetto.. the kid is NHL ready and is a RW as well.

Stripper is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 02:42 PM
  #69
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
Who cares? We can put Prust on the right of Plekanec for all I care. It's not like all the players on our roster are playing on their natural positions. Or you can just call up Andrighetto.. the kid is NHL ready and is a RW as well.
Just don't expect to win hockey games then, that's all.

overlords is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 02:47 PM
  #70
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Who plays right wing then? It'd be Gallagher and... ummm... Weise? We'd pretty much be trading Gionta for Bourque because he'd never leave the lineup if there was no Gionta.
You joke but Weise at least can play a role he's fast and physical. Because Plex & Vanek are finesse players maybe he could complement them effectively, make some hits, open up some ice? His hands are not bad actually this season Weise has more 5-on-5 pts/60m than any Hab other than Briere.

On RW beside Vanek and Plex, what does Gionta bring that puts him ahead of Weise ?

JLP is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 02:48 PM
  #71
JusticeBeaver
Twitter: @gar****al
 
JusticeBeaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Charlottetown
Country: Canada
Posts: 695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
Who cares? We can put Prust on the right of Plekanec for all I care. It's not like all the players on our roster are playing on their natural positions. Or you can just call up Andrighetto.. the kid is NHL ready and is a RW as well.
Andrighetto is good, but he is still quite raw. He is not ready yet. Prust is a 4th liner who can fill in on the third when called upon, not top 6. If we do that, we don't make the playoffs, and its evident that the only goal this year is to make the playoffs. The point remains, there were no viable options to fill Gio's role.

JusticeBeaver is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 02:50 PM
  #72
Raimu
Registered User
 
Raimu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 410
vCash: 500
Brian Gionta is horrendously underrated on here...

I don't get the concept of trading your captain in a year where you're poised to make a pretty decent run for a pick and a prospect. Montreal wasn't looking to sell at the deadline.

Raimu is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 03:13 PM
  #73
Beendair Donedat
Registered User
 
Beendair Donedat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimu View Post
Brian Gionta is horrendously underrated on here...

I don't get the concept of trading your captain in a year where you're poised to make a pretty decent run for a pick and a prospect. Montreal wasn't looking to sell at the deadline.
I'll check back with you after the "pretty decent playoff run."

It may happen, but not if Therrien keeps making bonehead personnel decisions...

Beendair Donedat is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 03:16 PM
  #74
shamrun
Registered User
 
shamrun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimu View Post
Brian Gionta is horrendously underrated on here...

I don't get the concept of trading your captain in a year where you're poised to make a pretty decent run for a pick and a prospect. Montreal wasn't looking to sell at the deadline.
He is not being underrated. If anything Therrien is overrating him. I think Gionta would be better suited on the third line. Better for him and better for the team. That's just my opinion.

shamrun is offline  
Old
03-12-2014, 03:18 PM
  #75
Dagistitsyn
Registered User
 
Dagistitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Who plays right wing then? It'd be Gallagher and... ummm... Weise? We'd pretty much be trading Gionta for Bourque because he'd never leave the lineup if there was no Gionta.
Galchenyuk (His best plays have come off the RW)
Gallagher
Briere
Weise
Bourque (Can play both sides)

Dagistitsyn is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.