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Brian Gionta (negotiations w/Habs are underway)

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Old
06-24-2014, 10:51 PM
  #826
Beendair Donedat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Kings have one player on their roster under 6'0.
Yeah and we have about 5.

But if you listen to the Kool Aid drinkers, we are "okay" and it's nothing to worry about.

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06-24-2014, 11:09 PM
  #827
JLP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Kings have one player on their roster under 6'0.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Yeah and we have about 5.

But if you listen to the Kool Aid drinkers, we are "okay" and it's nothing to worry about.
Actually we have eight players under 6', and we have six under 5'9". Under different circumstances I'd consider retaining Gionta but given that Gallagher is a valuable top-minutes RW and tiny Andrighetto is a possible callup, I'd like at least regular-sized RWers on our other lines.

Tough reality is that Gio is banged up and past his best-before date, honestly in what skills do people think he still exceeds even Dale Weise?

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06-25-2014, 04:27 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Actually we have eight players under 6', and we have six under 5'9". Under different circumstances I'd consider retaining Gionta but given that Gallagher is a valuable top-minutes RW and tiny Andrighetto is a possible callup, I'd like at least regular-sized RWers on our other lines.

Tough reality is that Gio is banged up and past his best-before date, honestly in what skills do people think he still exceeds even Dale Weise?
that got to be a joke...

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06-25-2014, 05:45 AM
  #829
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Gionta watch 2014!

Will he sign? Will he walk? Will I get hauled into the ever lasting size debate? Never!

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Old
06-25-2014, 06:03 AM
  #830
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that got to be a joke...
Do you think Gionta has more puck skills than Weise?

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06-25-2014, 06:18 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Do you think Gionta has more puck skills than Weise?
outside size, there isnt much (well yeah, maybe speed) Weise has over Gionta... even with both biceps ****ed Gionta is still the better passer and the better scorer of the two.

Weise, as well as he played for us so far, is a career 4th liner.

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06-25-2014, 06:23 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
outside size, there isnt much (well yeah, maybe speed) Weise has over Gionta... even with both biceps ****ed Gionta is still the better passer and the better scorer of the two.

Weise, as well as he played for us so far, is a career 4th liner.
I don't disagree, but I think the difference is in their heads and not their actual tangible puck skills. Lapierre was rather good with the puck but he's pretty stupid and is thus a 4th liner. Gionta is more experienced and a savvy player but he simply cannot play any better than his stumpy arms allow him.

And it's not good.

We need to move on from the clownery of having 8 players under five-foot-dick.

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06-25-2014, 06:34 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
We need to move on from the clownery of having 8 players under five-foot-dick.
dont disagree, but we wont get better by using worse players (Weise for example) simply cause they're bigger.

Gionta can play on a 3rd line, can be used on the 1st unit of a good P.K., can also be used late in games to protect a lead and stuff like that...

gimme the same in a bigger body, fine... but a worse player ? no thanks.


Moen used to be the guy Gionta is now, was used on the 3rd line with Eller/Kostystin and they were solid, was on the 1st PK unit with Plekanec, was reliable in every situation (except offense). Dont think he will, but if he can play like he was before this season (with the concussion and al') I'd be fine with letting Gionta go and give his spot next to Eller/Bourque.

I'd be fine with a Bourque/Eller/Bournival line as well.

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06-25-2014, 06:48 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
dont disagree, but we wont get better by using worse players (Weise for example) simply cause they're bigger.

Gionta can play on a 3rd line, can be used on the 1st unit of a good P.K., can also be used late in games to protect a lead and stuff like that...

gimme the same in a bigger body, fine... but a worse player ? no thanks.


Moen used to be the guy Gionta is now, was used on the 3rd line with Eller/Kostystin and they were solid, was on the 1st PK unit with Plekanec, was reliable in every situation (except offense). Dont think he will, but if he can play like he was before this season (with the concussion and al') I'd be fine with letting Gionta go and give his spot next to Eller/Bourque.

I'd be fine with a Bourque/Eller/Bournival line as well.
We have Moen at 1.5 who can play 3rd line and be 1st unit PK, otherwise there's Winnick and a bunch of other FAs. We don't need a frail Gionta for those duties.

People who want to keep him want him for his "Two-way" play which is valid, but I think harmful to the bigger picture.

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06-25-2014, 06:54 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
We have Moen at 1.5 who can play 3rd line and be 1st unit PK, otherwise there's Winnick and a bunch of other FAs. We don't need a frail Gionta for those duties.

People who want to keep him want him for his "Two-way" play which is valid, but I think harmful to the bigger picture.
If he's back in top shape (considering he had a concussion) absolutely, if not, he can't.

I wouldnt mind trying him though as we have enough bodies for the 4th line anyway so he wont be missed there, plus he did it (and was good) before.

Worst case scenario, if he's changed too much after being concussed, we can rotate him, Prust and Bournival on that 3rd line.

and we'd be saving about 3Mil a year.

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06-25-2014, 08:47 AM
  #836
JLP
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that got to be a joke...
Not entirely. Weise fell out with Torts because he believed he was more than a 4th liner, and coach didn't. Let's not make the same mistake by pigeon-holing Weise.

So looking at some skills:

Skating = Weise
Shooting = Weise
Passing = Gionta
Positioning = Gionta
Hitting = Weise
Speed = Weise
Size = Weise
Experience = Gionta

I'll add that Gionta's smart defensive play is, imho, an experienced player simply making the safe play almost all the time -- sort of like what Gorges does with his dump ins from the point. Nothing to get all excited about there.

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06-25-2014, 08:51 AM
  #837
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Weise does not have a better shot than Gionta. Even in a down year Gionta scores more goals at the NHL level than Weise does in juniors.

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06-25-2014, 08:54 AM
  #838
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Yeah and we have about 5.

But if you listen to the Kool Aid drinkers, we are "okay" and it's nothing to worry about.
Only "kool aid drinkers" think that the La Kings way is the only way to win a cup.

NYR is smaller than the Habs and they got to the cup final. Chicago won the cup with a less than gigantic team.

If you look at the last 3-4 drafts, a pile of big players have been drafted and are on the way.

I would hope MB would look at what else is out there and the cost before re-signing Gionta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Not entirely. Weise fell out with Torts because he believed he was more than a 4th liner, and coach didn't. Let's not make the same mistake by pigeon-holing Weise.

Skating = Weise
Shooting = Weise
Passing = Gionta
Positioning = Gionta
Speed = Weise
Size = Weise
Hitting = Weise
I'm a big fan of Weise, but giving him the edge over Gionta in terms of Shooting has to be a joke right?

Plus there are a lot of things that are not on your list...defensive play, PK, work ethic, leadership...that all have value.

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06-25-2014, 08:55 AM
  #839
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Gionta had 40 points last year. Weise has 30 in his career.

The guy is a 4th liner. He is not a replacement for Gionta.

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06-25-2014, 08:56 AM
  #840
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Seriously people are defending Gionta's shooting?

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06-25-2014, 08:58 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
If he's back in top shape (considering he had a concussion) absolutely, if not, he can't.

I wouldnt mind trying him though as we have enough bodies for the 4th line anyway so he wont be missed there, plus he did it (and was good) before.

Worst case scenario, if he's changed too much after being concussed, we can rotate him, Prust and Bournival on that 3rd line.

and we'd be saving about 3Mil a year.
I'd rather trade Moen than pencil him into the 3rd line.

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06-25-2014, 09:04 AM
  #842
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Seriously people are defending Gionta's shooting?
For one thing the board behind the net isn't...

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Old
06-25-2014, 09:05 AM
  #843
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Seriously people are defending Gionta's shooting?
Call it whatever you want, the guy had 249 goals in under 800 NHL games. Had 18 gain last year despite a poor start coming off bicep surgery.

He's scored 97 goals in 303 career games with the Habs and some are constantly crapping on him.

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06-25-2014, 09:07 AM
  #844
JLP
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Gionta had 40 points last year. Weise has 30 in his career.

The guy is a 4th liner. He is not a replacement for Gionta.
Respectfully, what sort of argument is that? Who decided he's a 4th liner? He's 25 what's to lose by trying him where he thinks he can succeed. A big gritty right winger is just what we need on the 3rd line. Yes better than Gionta in that role for sure.

And back to shooting, on the Habs in S% on the season and in the playoffs Weise ranked 1st (small sample) and 4th respectfully. Gionta was 9th and 11th. In Points/60m in the playoffs Weise ranked 4th on the team more than doubling Gionta with no PP time and worse linemates etc. Seriously in shooting Gionta is feckless probably due the surgeries on his arms we all know that.

And maybe we don't know Weise better than Weise does?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Call it whatever you want, the guy had 249 goals in under 800 NHL games. Had 18 gain last year despite a poor start coming off bicep surgery.

He's scored 97 goals in 303 career games with the Habs and some are constantly crapping on him.
Looking forward instead of backward, which player is on the downswing and which has potential to improve? Or, just look at the last playoffs: Weise totally outperformed Gionta.


Last edited by JLP: 06-25-2014 at 09:14 AM.
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06-25-2014, 09:23 AM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Call it whatever you want, the guy had 249 goals in under 800 NHL games. Had 18 gain last year despite a poor start coming off bicep surgery.

He's scored 97 goals in 303 career games with the Habs and some are constantly crapping on him.
Yeah, but, at his salary, he needs to pot more than 40points and some more than 20 goals, at the very least. The day i will have to change my nickname on these forums will be the greatest day in recent Habs history, IMO. i will support this team year in and out, but this has got to be a joke that my championship winning midget team had me at 5'10" the smallest player (in other words we had a bigger team than the Canadiens of the last few years, just ridiculous). And i simply cant stand being a fan of the smallest team the NHL has ever seen on ice. Still im a fan and surprisingly the team did well, but that has to do with key players at key positions more so than the forwards group or defensive depth. Bouillon, gone, Gionta, gone, Briere, 13th forward, enough is enough, the farce of Gainey / Gauthier has got to be over. Now Bergevin has to go and get more size, and stop hiring smurfs like Briere, even if hes a local boy. This team has to toughen up and add muscle. Without Price and Subban, this team doesnt make the playoffs.

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06-25-2014, 09:27 AM
  #846
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Gionta isn't a good 3rd liner. With our smaller guys on our top 2 lines (which I have no problem with), we need to balance that out on our bottom 6.

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06-25-2014, 09:46 AM
  #847
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post



Looking forward instead of backward, which player is on the downswing and which has potential to improve? Or, just look at the last playoffs: Weise totally outperformed Gionta.
You still can't build a team on what you "hope" will happen. The best and safest way is to pencil Weise onto the 4th line, if he proves to be a 3rd liner that's a bonus...instaed of expecting him to be a 3rd liner and being disappointed and having to go out and acquire somebody.

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06-25-2014, 09:46 AM
  #848
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Other teams are calling Gionta!

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06-25-2014, 09:49 AM
  #849
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Other teams are calling Gionta!
source?

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06-25-2014, 09:51 AM
  #850
Monctonscout
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Yeah, but, at his salary, he needs to pot more than 40points and some more than 20 goals, at the very least. The day i will have to change my nickname on these forums will be the greatest day in recent Habs history, IMO. i will support this team year in and out, but this has got to be a joke that my championship winning midget team had me at 5'10" the smallest player (in other words we had a bigger team than the Canadiens of the last few years, just ridiculous). And i simply cant stand being a fan of the smallest team the NHL has ever seen on ice. Still im a fan and surprisingly the team did well, but that has to do with key players at key positions more so than the forwards group or defensive depth. Bouillon, gone, Gionta, gone, Briere, 13th forward, enough is enough, the farce of Gainey / Gauthier has got to be over. Now Bergevin has to go and get more size, and stop hiring smurfs like Briere, even if hes a local boy. This team has to toughen up and add muscle. Without Price and Subban, this team doesnt make the playoffs.
Without Doughty and Quick the Kings don't make the playoffs...does that make them too small?

If you can get a Gionta at 6'2" for the same price, you do it, but the UFA market is littered with fat contracts and dusapointment. Look no further than Clarkson and what Bolland is looking for.

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