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Michel Therrien knows more about hockey than you do.

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Old
03-15-2014, 12:57 AM
  #351
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If ever there was a case where it was apparent this is it. Look at what happened in Vancouver too... Torts has destroyed that franchise.

Coaching has a huge, huge impact. You think the team wants to play this style? Of course not. But you can't just defy the coach. You HAVE to play the system if you want to play.

And that's not even getting into the ice distribution question (who gets what icetime when, with who etc...)
I think it's a two way street. In some cases, coaching can have a huge impact. In some others, it's minimal. Give team Canada any half decent coach and I'm sure they still win the gold.

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03-15-2014, 02:46 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If ever there was a case where it was apparent this is it. Look at what happened in Vancouver too... Torts has destroyed that franchise.

Coaching has a huge, huge impact. You think the team wants to play this style? Of course not. But you can't just defy the coach. You HAVE to play the system if you want to play.

And that's not even getting into the ice distribution question (who gets what icetime when, with who etc...)
I don't think it's Tort's who's destroyed the franchise..... Gillis has completely mishandled three (if not more) very valuable assets. Management could have put the whole thing to bed by firing Gillis after the Schneider trade thereby showing confidence in Lou.... Gillis is now doing the same thing with Kesler ..... Torts literally has nothing to do with that part of the circus...

As for our situation.... it's pretty clear the players aren't on the same page as the coach, and if they are their reading it in a different language. MT may know more about hockey than me, but I'm not sure he knows more than some of his players, and that, is a giant problem. If the players don't respect you or your message they tune it out.

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04-23-2014, 12:56 AM
  #353
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Good job MT. You definitely outcoached Jon Cooper. As one Tampa fan brilliantly told me to, I removed my #FireTherrien tag. Keep up da good work Michel.

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04-23-2014, 01:00 AM
  #354
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Michel is going to have some rispek. At least until the first loss of the next series (if loss there is?!? ).

He did a good job IMO. Great use of the time-out today, it really set the team back on it's footing. Is he a top of the line coach like Julien or Babcock? No. But he's a decent coach, and IMO a much better pick than the other 2 choices that were talked about a lot at the time of the signing (Hartley and *shiver* Crawford).

He also did learn from last year.

Edit -oh, nice necro there.

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04-23-2014, 01:09 AM
  #355
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I applaud MT for what he's done. I don't think he's outcoached Cooper by any stretch, not sure what MT might have done more if he had been coaching a very young team like Tampa.

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04-23-2014, 01:23 AM
  #356
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The whole team is good, the Org is looking good. Tampa did not play a physical series though to be sure so our squad has yet to be tested in that way. Anyway into the second round this is great!
Go MT !! Go Habs Go !!!

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04-23-2014, 01:43 AM
  #357
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I don't like Therrien's coaching style and surely never will but he made some good decisions in this first round. The four lines have a good makeup and he's got them playing more aggressively (finally). He also brought good adjustments after the first game. So kudos to him for that.

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04-23-2014, 01:50 AM
  #358
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Tampa bay was an playoff inexperiened young team with a terrible goalie.


Expect the real challenge to be next series.

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04-23-2014, 02:00 AM
  #359
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The team hasn't quit on him despite the whole regular season being one in which he forced a "grinding style" on the team. I'm not sure, because my "hockey eyes" really aren't good at discerning what systems a team is actually playing, if we're just running the same system with minor tweaks or if he's radically changed things up.

Probably his best success is Ryan White, who has changed from a loose cannon with off-and-on reliability to being a solid 4th liner.

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04-23-2014, 02:44 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Madam Kadri View Post
The team hasn't quit on him despite the whole regular season being one in which he forced a "grinding style" on the team. I'm not sure, because my "hockey eyes" really aren't good at discerning what systems a team is actually playing, if we're just running the same system with minor tweaks or if he's radically changed things up.

Probably his best success is Ryan White, who has changed from a loose cannon with off-and-on reliability to being a solid 4th liner.
When was White's last game? MT might want him in the lineup if boston . ..

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04-23-2014, 06:14 AM
  #361
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What good is White against Boston?

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04-23-2014, 06:35 AM
  #362
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I applaud MT for what he's done. I don't think he's outcoached Cooper by any stretch, not sure what MT might have done more if he had been coaching a very young team like Tampa.
Not so sure about that one. The bar is so low.

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04-23-2014, 08:42 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by The Russian General View Post
Good job MT. You definitely outcoached Jon Cooper. As one Tampa fan brilliantly told me to, I removed my #FireTherrien tag. Keep up da good work Michel.
Therrien should have won easily and he did. Great job by him for sure, team played great to top bottom at even strength and didn't roll over and die when the opponents pushed. It was clear which was the better team on the ice and that's how good team should play.

I think people are putting too much in the 'outcoached Cooper' basket though. Just have to take a look at their starting lineup: Stamkos, Callahan, Purcell, Filppula, Hedman, Carle, then literally a bunch of AHLers/late round and undrafted rookies. It's unreal how young that team is and goes to show inexperience with talent can still win with a good coach (*cough* Lefebvre*cough*). People here said Habs are bad on paper, imagine having that team.

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04-23-2014, 09:00 AM
  #364
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Rookies + Back-up goalie + Injuries VS Depth + Healthy + Top goalie

One thing i will give to Therrien. He did spread a little the offensive game situations to get all lines going. He did turned back to his old playbook....offensive, 2 man agressive forecheck with the D allowed to pinch in many times.

And just like last year.....like in the first 20 games.

We saw the same players that looked good back then, looking good right now and
just like back then, we got 3 lines that can scores goals.

But the real test is coming.

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04-23-2014, 09:38 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
What good is White against Boston?
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
When was White's last game? MT might want him in the lineup if boston . ..
The White observation has nothing to do with these playoffs in particular, just an observation that the guy become a better hockey player than he was a couple years ago.

Although, if we do sustain significant injuries, White can fill in on the 4th line while one our more skilled bottom liners slots in on a higher line.

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04-23-2014, 09:46 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Therrien should have won easily and he did. Great job by him for sure, team played great to top bottom at even strength and didn't roll over and die when the opponents pushed. It was clear which was the better team on the ice and that's how good team should play.

I think people are putting too much in the 'outcoached Cooper' basket though. Just have to take a look at their starting lineup: Stamkos, Callahan, Purcell, Filppula, Hedman, Carle, then literally a bunch of AHLers/late round and undrafted rookies. It's unreal how young that team is and goes to show inexperience with talent can still win with a good coach (*cough* Lefebvre*cough*). People here said Habs are bad on paper, imagine having that team.
Cooper did decided to roll with Pauqutte over Tom Pyatt. For all of Paquette's physicality and agitating, Pyatt would have been the steadier, safer player.

And of course, his biggest lineup error was sticking with Lindback for way too long.

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04-23-2014, 09:47 AM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think people are putting too much in the 'outcoached Cooper' basket though. Just have to take a look at their starting lineup: Stamkos, Callahan, Purcell, Filppula, Hedman, Carle, then literally a bunch of AHLers/late round and undrafted rookies. It's unreal how young that team is and goes to show inexperience with talent can still win with a good coach (*cough* Lefebvre*cough*). People here said Habs are bad on paper, imagine having that team.
Easy to say in hindsight - "oh the roster is bad, they're so young, they didn't have their starting goalie" - yet all that was true before the series started and it still didn't stop people from predicting Cooper would coach circles around Therrien, or that we wouldn't be able to crack their defensive style of play, or that we wouldn't be able to contain Stamkos, or that we wouldn't be able to score 5-on-5.

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04-23-2014, 10:38 AM
  #368
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At one point in the game they said something along the lines that Therrien could have coached this team from a rocking chair because all he was doing was sitting back and rolling his lines. There's some truth to that, Therrien didn't have to do a lot of "coaching" because his team was firing on all cylinders and the other team wasn't playing good.

That being said he deserves credit for getting his team all on the same page and playing the way they can. He also didn't get caught up in the war of words like he did last playoffs which is good.

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04-23-2014, 10:57 AM
  #369
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At one point in the game they said something along the lines that Therrien could have coached this team from a rocking chair because all he was doing was sitting back and rolling his lines. There's some truth to that, Therrien didn't have to do a lot of "coaching" because his team was firing on all cylinders and the other team wasn't playing good.

That being said he deserves credit for getting his team all on the same page and playing the way they can. He also didn't get caught up in the war of words like he did last playoffs which is good.
I'm not a Therrien fan at all, and I'd still cut him loose after this season, but it was clear they did their scouting on the Bolts. The Tampa defence didn't know what hit 'em, and ours, in turn, adapted to the speedy yet weak Tampa forwards.

He gets my kudos for that. Also this team, at all times, is very well motivated. I just wish Therrien's general tactical acumen was a notch or two higher - he doesn't seem to trust his players enough to play a skill generally.

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04-23-2014, 11:32 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
What good is White against Boston?
White could center a traditional 4th line for us, something like Moen White Weise. Boston should be about four times more physical than TB.


Anyway we just won four games against a non-physical team that's great but do you put the success on Therrien? What did he do?

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04-23-2014, 11:35 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Easy to say in hindsight - "oh the roster is bad, they're so young, they didn't have their starting goalie" - yet all that was true before the series started and it still didn't stop people from predicting Cooper would coach circles around Therrien, or that we wouldn't be able to crack their defensive style of play, or that we wouldn't be able to contain Stamkos, or that we wouldn't be able to score 5-on-5.
People thought Therrien was that bad due to how mediocre the team looked in the regular season relative to roster. Easy to suggest in hindsight that people thought Tampa would walk the Habs with Cooper's coaching when that wasn't really the entire story. The question was whether Therrien will lose despite the fact he should win based on all circumstances surrounding each roster. Based on regular season, this was a legitimate concern because of how poorly the Habs played relative to the roster on paper while Cooper had his team playing much better relative to roster on paper. Turns out, Therrien wasn't as bad as many like myself thought going in and when given a better lineup than the opposition, he didn't have any issues winning. I said going in Habs should win this season and there was no excuse to losing especially with Bishop out. That's why I give Therrien credit, he should have won and the team won looking like the better team. I'm more impressed than I was in 12/13.

Before people bring it up, indeed Habs got 40 ROW wins and 100 points but to put this in perspective the 2011 playoff Habs had 41 ROW with 96 points with better numbers in almost every category outside the shootout. How you win matters IMO. Take the Senators 4-1 playoff win last playoffs for example and compare it to the Habs 4-0 win this playoffs. You can suggest both are the same since they won easily. Yet, it was pretty clear then that the Sens won despite looking pretty bad in game relying on Anderson a lot while the Habs essentially dominated the play every game and looked significantly better than the opposition throughout the series. One team looks like it can maintain success while the other looked like it will fall on its face eventually. To me this is what it feels like when people point out the Habs 100 points as playing great in the same sense as say the 12/13 Habs team that actually played great just because both won games. The Habs current roster is likely the best Habs team we'll see in a while and it should be playing closer to what we saw in 12/13 and this playoffs IMO. The way they played during the season, despite winning IMO largely relying on the back of vezina caliber goaltending, doesn't reflect the team's quality on paper. In playoffs, they're still winning and doing it in a way I think can be sustainable and I'm very impressed with the way he's managed the bench.

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