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Michel Therrien knows more about hockey than you do.

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Old
03-10-2014, 12:15 PM
  #51
MathMan
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
And I'll go out on a limb here but maybe, "This team hasn't been playing well" because it doesn't have the horses to play any better.
We know for a fact that this is untrue, because they played much, much better last year with more or less the same roster.

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03-10-2014, 12:17 PM
  #52
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Didn't the blue jays hire a guy with no league experience? Just saying, it isn't always about having played the game. There are good minds in all of sports who did and didn't play the game, just like there are bad ones who did or didn't.

Therrien having played the game and coached in the NHL probably does mean he'd be a better coach than anyone here, he has experience we don't have. However, that doesn't necessarily mean a poster or two here couldn't become a better coach had they been given the opportunities Therrien has been afforded.

Not saying that's the case though, just saying we can't ever know for certain. Still though, I think insulting the mans intellect etc is a really low blow. If anything, the guy is passionate about our team and wants all the same things we do. Implying that he has a double digit IQ because he doesn't coach the way you want him to is a jab between the legs.

Who are you to judge how smart the guy is, you don't even know him. All you see is what the team wants you to see, you don't see Therrien the human being, you just see the coach and frankly like it or not, the results speak for themselves.

I'm in the camp that believes the team wins in spite of Therrien, not because they're an overly talented squad, but because they play well together as a team, despite a system that imo hampers them. But until I see another coach come in and do a better job, or I see Therrien drive this team out of a playoff position, I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt despite my gut feeling that this team is winning in spite of him, not because of him.

Why? Because I can't know for certain. He does deserve the benefit of the doubt, despite what all his detractors here, including myself, might think. To take a jab at his IQ cause of coaching related decisions is laughable. You can be a total idiot or a complete genius and still be a good or terrible coach. The last time we won a cup, our coach was illiterate. Does that mean he was also an idiot with a double digit IQ who can't coach?

The two are separate and have no bearing on one another. There are people who have practically no social skills, zero linguistic skills, zero skills in pretty much anything, but who are geniuses at math, and so on. A person can be a savant. Not saying Therrien is, but to judge his intellect based on some interviews and coaching is as disingenuous as judging his coaching based on his intelligence. The two have no bearing on one another.
A very well written post! I wish more people would think this way! This post goes beyond coaching the Montreal Canadiens!!

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Old
03-10-2014, 12:19 PM
  #53
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Wayne Gretzky

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Old
03-10-2014, 12:19 PM
  #54
Habs Icing
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Even if the Habs were an average-talented club (and I think they're better than that), an average team benefitting from goaltending like Price is offering should be in a dogfight with Boston, or at least within striking distance.
From that ridiculously funny comment and observation I gather that you think Price is heads and shoulders above Rask. Not slightly better but miles and more miles ahead of Rask. When it comes to the goaltending Boston & Montreal are practically tied. So move on and compare the rest of the team positions.

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03-10-2014, 12:20 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Really? You want a mulligan on that ridiculous post?

They are 3 wins and 4 losses playing 7 games in 11 nights where 4 of the games are out west on an 6 day roadtrip.

The only thing that is getting stale is your lack of honesty and objectivity. the rest of your comments in your post are on par with that 0 wins since the Olympic break.
I meant 0 regulations wins since the Olympic break. 24 goals conceded over 7 games.

As for lack of honesty? Here you are invoking the record in order to overlook the actual details of the games this season and the under-performance of 90% of the roster.

.500 hockey outside of the 10 game point streak. Which means that for 85% of the season the habs have been playing .500 hockey.

Also, I knew you'd pick on the littlest of errors to avoid actually substantiating any of you opinions. What is your argument outside of "lol 3rd in the east"?

This is the most talented and deep roster since 07-08, yet the Canadiens struggle to win games convincingly and consistently, not just against a stronger western conference, but a weak eastern one as well, requiring their goalie to stand on his head most nights.


Last edited by Andy: 03-10-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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03-10-2014, 12:30 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I have no doubts Therrien is more knowledgeable about the game than basically everyone on HFboards.

That being said, having knowledge and being able to understand and use it wisely while in a position of authority is completely different.
Doesn't mean anything some of us have played for a long time. Some of us also played very competive hockey. I'm sure he has some good points but the bad points out weigh the good points. He is not a people person and it's 2 years he here and he's had at least 7 to 8 players lose their confidence. Sorry but that's not good coaching.

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03-10-2014, 12:38 PM
  #57
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Great thread.

Cunneyworth knows more about hockey than most of us. Jacques Martin does as well even though he never did nor never will win a Cup as a head coach.

Knowledge of does not equate to effectiveness.

Again.

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03-10-2014, 12:39 PM
  #58
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Therrien did not invent the lightbulb, but he is a pro hockey coach, as good or as bad as 75% of his fellow NHL headcoaches.

My question is about the whole coaching staff and management team. I am guessing everone of them - all of them almost have played NHL hockey, some were headcoach and even GM -has a word to say. . I am sure these guys are talking and making decisions together about players and game strategies. I doubt Therrien is alone at the wheel. It seems only Waite knows what he is doing.

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Old
03-10-2014, 12:40 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Bruins are probably a worse team this year than they were last year and they're 12 points up with 2 points in hand. We should not be comparing this team to the Toronto ****ing Maple Leafs, it should be Boston.
Before we got Vanek we were not in the same league as Boston. Look at their roster for crying out loud.

I know it's the cool thing to ridicule the Leafs on this board but the leafs have a decent team. I would even say they have a good team for the East.

When compared in nets the Habs have the advantage but the Leafs completely put the Habs forwards to shame. the Leafs forwards are head and shoulder above ours.

Defence I would say it's a tie maybe with the advantage to the Habs.

With Vanek the game has changed. If the Habs continue to be fighting with the leafs then I would agree with you that Therrien is not getting the best out of the team.

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03-10-2014, 12:42 PM
  #60
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wayne gretzky knew hockey
wayne gretzky played in the NHL
wayne gretzky is considered by many the greatest of all time
wayne gretzky was a horrible coach

knowing hockey does not make you a good coach

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03-10-2014, 12:45 PM
  #61
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I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he has a grand strategy for the playoffs. I do not like the way he has treated PK though. And Bouillon on the powerplay is ridiculous. I agree with that lengthy list below.

This is the same guy who upset the #1 Bruins back in 2002 and took a group of kids to the final in 2008. So, we'll see...

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03-10-2014, 12:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post


Great thread.

Cunneyworth knows more about hockey than most of us. Jacques Martin does as well even though he never did nor never will win a Cup as a head coach.

Knowledge of does not equate to effectiveness.

Again.
Keep laughing. You're missing my main point.

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Old
03-10-2014, 12:49 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBubbleRaincoat View Post
You know why? This man at least played in the AHL. Come at me you AHL players posting out there. This man has had three NHL coaching gigs. Does anyone ever think of pinning any blames on the assistant coaches, video coaches, general manager (well that has happened) and anyone else who has any input when it comes to on ice adjustments.

My main point of this thread is to damper the obsessive blame/hate/disgust towards just one man. I'm no fan of this 'grinding' system either.... and yes I sometimes long for the structure they played last year.... BUT REMEMBER they faltered before that grueling 48 game schedule was done with.

I started a thread a couple months back still supporting Therrien, citing that beautiful opening round series in 2002 vs the Bruins. Therrien coaching a team on the tail-end of the 'Dark-Age''. Yeah, the game was different then. Therrien didn't do us any favors in the end with the Hurricanes series either... yeah, yeah, I know.

Still, you think you know more about the game of hockey than Michel Therrien does? Give me a bloody break.
Wayne Gretzky says hello.

Actual hockey experexperience means absolutely nothing.

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03-10-2014, 12:52 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by GreenBubbleRaincoat View Post
Keep laughing. You're missing my main point.
If you have a valid point, then every message board on the internet needs to be shut down.

Besides, with your post, you are assuming you know more than a lot of other people. Just what you are accusing others of.

See what I did there?

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Old
03-10-2014, 12:54 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by GreenBubbleRaincoat View Post
So he is pretty much the dictator with what you're saying. I'm pretty sure Gallant, Therrien and J.J. confide on what's the best way to roll. Once again this brings me to my point... it's a collective process...
If MT is such a great hockey mind then their concensus should be bringing better results than they are your point is of no value. MT oversees the coaching staff not the other way around.

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03-10-2014, 12:55 PM
  #66
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I meant 0 regulations wins since the Olympic break. 24 goals conceded over 7 games.
They also did it without their starting goaltender. Now I know you guys want to declare that Therrien is riding on Price's coattails but would you say the same about Bylsma riding on Crosby's & Malkin's coattails, or Quenneville riding on Toews' and Kane's coattails, or Babcock or Julien.

Therrien picked up 6 out of a possible 14 points with a schedule that was devised by Marquis de Sade and they did it without their starting goal tender.

As I have mentioned on a number of occasions, Last year I wasn't a big fan of Therrien and I know he is not an elite coach but he has proven to me the last two years that he's a damn fine coach - once you exclude the two or three elite coaches in the league, Therrien is among the top.

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03-10-2014, 12:55 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by compile View Post
Wayne Gretzky says hello.

Actual hockey experexperience means absolutely nothing.
Well scheise, Gretzky should have been given one more chance in this league. I mean, between all the GM's and owners, one would've thought he'd live to coach one more game in this league. He was nothing more than a novelty coach in a novelty hockey market. Enough with the protected 'Great One'.

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03-10-2014, 12:56 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
From that ridiculously funny comment and observation I gather that you think Price is heads and shoulders above Rask. Not slightly better but miles and more miles ahead of Rask.
It's a point of contention. There are certainly people who would claim that, and they have data to back it up.

But ultimately, the reason the Bruins are ahead is twofold: they allow fewer shots on the same save percentage, hence fewer goals against, and they score way more goals.

But Boston's goal-scoring this year is comparable to Montreal's goal-scoring last year. Montreal went from taking 30.6 shots a game to taking 28.2; that accounts for a fair amount of their offensive woes.

Montreal's defense also took a nosedive: they went from allowing 26.9 shots per game to allowing 30.5. Given such a defensive skid, it's no surprise that despite their goalie going from worst-year-in-career to Vezina-contender, their goals-against barely improved.

While expecting Montreal to duplicate last season's goal-scoring might be unrealistic (they were lucky), a possession game somewhat similar to last year's would have the Habs, if not in a dogfight against the Bruins, at least within shooting distance.

Or, if you're obsessed with records and all those decidedly non-fancy stats are too much for you. Last season, they were in a dogfight with the Bruins, and even finished ahead, despite Rask being head and shoulders above Price that year. This year Price's numbers are comparable, and yet the Habs are far behind. What gives?

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03-10-2014, 12:59 PM
  #69
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Most people in the NHL are hired because of who they know, not what they know. Furthermore knowing more things doesn't make you a good coach. I'm sure Therrien's knows more practice drills than me. Does that mean he's better at evaluating whose the better defensive player Subban or Markov? If I know more hockey trivia than Therrien does that make me more capable of coaching?

Besides the argument that we have to put complete faith in anyone simply because they are in power is just dumb. Maybe we should give up this whole Democracy thing and simply let whoever's in charge name their successor, after all they know more about leading a country then any of us voters.

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03-10-2014, 01:01 PM
  #70
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Then hire the "right" coach finally, which probably requires that the ability to "parlez-vous" should not be a factor.
I agree 100% screw the spoken language and get the BEST coach available regardless of his ability to speak french.

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03-10-2014, 01:03 PM
  #71
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He likely does know more than most, if not all on this board, but level of playing experience is not proportional to coaching expertise. If it were, we probably never would have heard of this guy

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=528

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03-10-2014, 01:03 PM
  #72
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If MT is such a great hockey mind then their concensus should be bringing better results than they are your point is of no value. MT oversees the coaching staff not the other way around.
My point in this thread was to say that there is a lot of hockey minds around Therrien that most likely offer their input. It's my guess Therrien values their input, therefor not every decision that seems like Therrien's is Therrien's.

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03-10-2014, 01:06 PM
  #73
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Anyhow,the question is not whether Therrien know's more or less than
posters on these boards. The question is, how does he compare to other
NHL coaches.

I didn't want him. But I didn't mind much, because I saw him as temporary
while the team was rebuilt. And as such I think he has done his primary job
well. I think he has done an excellent job of managing the inexperienced
young players.
And yet, with two somewhat more experienced but still young players
(Subban and Eller), I'm less certain.

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03-10-2014, 01:09 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Habaddict View Post
Anyhow,the question is not whether Therrien know's more or less than
posters on these boards. The question is, how does he compare to other
NHL coaches.

I didn't want him. But I didn't mind much, because I saw him as temporary
while the team was rebuilt. And as such I think he has done his primary job
well. I think he has done an excellent job of managing the inexperienced
young players.
And yet, with two somewhat more experienced but still young players
(Subban and Eller), I'm less certain.
I agree completely with Eller and somewhat Subban. We've seen some of Subby's best and most uninspired play under Therrien. Obviously this thread has been blown outta proportion in true Hab's style.

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Old
03-10-2014, 01:10 PM
  #75
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Yes he does.

Chances are we would gripe about 95% of the coaches.

Some coaches are better than others in terms of making in game decisions, strategies, matching lines etc.

Some coaches have personal biases, beliefs, philosophy which can get in the way of making good decisions You know, putting a player on a line he doesn't belong on ( 4th liner on 1st or onto PP because he follows coaches direction to a T and 2nd line scorer on the 4th because he free wheels it a bit ).

We are just fans but even though we might not be bird experts, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, we can say it is a duck. As others have said, I can say Houle was a bad GM, Trembly a bad coach and Martin was too rigid. So I think we are capable of making valid observations.

I haven't been flaming MT but his in game line-ups seem odd at times. He has overplayed guys and has put players where they don't belong. He has been off on PK at time which clouds times that he may have been right to ride PK. He seems to take unjustifiable dislikes to some guys and perhaps too accommodating of other guys.

Do I think MT should go ? Not saying that, but he has to figure it out as he does have talent on the team.

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