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Can Goc, Stempniak solve Penguins’ depth problem?

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Old
03-13-2014, 04:13 AM
  #26
tinkezione
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Isn't Sutter as center as they come? Sure, Goc is perhaps a better faceoff man, but can play also wing.

Also, I don't understand the Glass hate. At least he hits and forechecks, and a question between playing Glass and Adams shouldn't really be a question to begin with. I want Adams gone - and appointing him as an assistant coach wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. He's a smart guy, just not any sort of an useful hockey player any more.

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03-13-2014, 07:45 AM
  #27
GlennTheFrog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkezione View Post
Isn't Sutter as center as they come? Sure, Goc is perhaps a better faceoff man, but can play also wing.

Also, I don't understand the Glass hate. At least he hits and forechecks, and a question between playing Glass and Adams shouldn't really be a question to begin with. I want Adams gone - and appointing him as an assistant coach wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. He's a smart guy, just not any sort of an useful hockey player any more.
The problem is neither Glass nor Adams retain possession enough to validate their ice time. Sure they chase the puck, but they never seem to get it on their sticks. I don't see how you can like one and dislike the other. They're basically the same player.

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03-13-2014, 07:59 AM
  #28
tinkezione
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Originally Posted by GlennTheFrog View Post
The problem is neither Glass nor Adams retain possession enough to validate their ice time. Sure they chase the puck, but they never seem to get it on their sticks. I don't see how you can like one and dislike the other. They're basically the same player.
I can't for the best of my abilities see Glass and Adams as the same player. (Or basically maybe, if that means that both wear a pair of skates and a stick.) Together they are Duo Disaster, but one of them might be bearable, if the other links of the line function.

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03-13-2014, 08:02 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by tinkezione View Post
I can't for the best of my abilities see Glass and Adams as the same player. (Or basically maybe, if that means that both wear a pair of skates and a stick.) Together they are Duo Disaster, but one of them might be bearable, if the other links of the line function.
Alas we'll never find out.

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03-13-2014, 08:30 AM
  #30
IcedCapp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkezione View Post
Isn't Sutter as center as they come? Sure, Goc is perhaps a better faceoff man, but can play also wing.

Also, I don't understand the Glass hate. At least he hits and forechecks, and a question between playing Glass and Adams shouldn't really be a question to begin with. I want Adams gone - and appointing him as an assistant coach wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. He's a smart guy, just not any sort of an useful hockey player any more.
Glass is horrible at puck possession.

And, if you'll recall, his horrible puck possession numbers actually carry some heavy weight because he HAS been separated from Adams a good portion of the year. Whether it's random shifts on the top-two lines or long stints on the 3rd line, Glass' numbers are significantly worse than Adams and he's been in "better" situations.

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03-13-2014, 08:53 AM
  #31
Newfy IceCapd
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I'll go one better.

Kunitz, Crosby, Stempniak
Jokinen, Malkin, Neal
Bennett, Sutter, Gibbons
Glass, Goc, Pyatt
Vitale/Adams/Engelland

Pyatt brings the size factor on the 4th line and he and Engelland can be there when they need that. But if they face a speedy team put Vitale on Goc's RW.

Best Possible Lineup we can ice with this roster, not sure how it stands in playoff hockey though. Still seems like a soft group

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03-13-2014, 09:05 AM
  #32
wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by tinkezione View Post
I can't for the best of my abilities see Glass and Adams as the same player. (Or basically maybe, if that means that both wear a pair of skates and a stick.) Together they are Duo Disaster, but one of them might be bearable, if the other links of the line function.
They are different kinds of terminal cancer. Does it matter which one you have? I don't see anything in either that indicate that they (can or will) positively contribute to a contending team.
  • Both can't stick handle.
  • Both can't take the puck away from anyone.
  • Both have poor shots.
  • Both can't get into position to take their poor shots.
  • Both are bad on the wall during break outs.
  • Both are usually on the ice when we are forced to use our timeout
  • Both block lots of shots (because they never have the puck)
  • Both give lots of hits (because they never have the puck)

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03-13-2014, 10:56 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by tinkezione View Post
Together they are Duo Disaster, but one of them might be bearable, if the other links of the line function.
I agree with this completely...if DB even decided that, due to his man crush on both Adams and Glass, that he was going to rotate them in the lineup each night, Glass tonight, Adams tomorrow night, etc., that this would be a HUGE improvement...

PERHAPS that is the best we can hope for, from DB?

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03-13-2014, 11:00 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
They are different kinds of terminal cancer. Does it matter which one you have? I don't see anything in either that indicate that they (can or will) positively contribute to a contending team.
  • Both can't stick handle.
  • Both can't take the puck away from anyone.
  • Both have poor shots.
  • Both can't get into position to take their poor shots.
  • Both are bad on the wall during break outs.
  • Both are usually on the ice when we are forced to use our timeout
  • Both block lots of shots (because they never have the puck)
  • Both give lots of hits (because they never have the puck)
Sadly, this pretty well summarizes both players...people see the shot blocks and the hits, because these are obvious/visible to the casual fan. And, of course, in and of themselves, shot blocks and hits are a good thing. BUT -- when you look deeper into these two players, you end up with a list much like what wgknestrick laid out...

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Old
03-13-2014, 11:07 AM
  #35
Rectify
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We have a chance at having a pretty deep forward corps going into the playoffs. We all know it will never turn out the way we want, and Glass and Adams will be in over Vitale, even against teams where we need speed to win.

What we should use:

K-C-S
Bennett-M-N
Jokinen-Sutter/Goc-Goc/Sutter
Glass-Vitale-Engo

Punishing 4th line, also gives us a crazy advantage on face-offs for the 3rd line. With Sid playing well with Stemps, hopefully Bennett can look good on Malkin's line, if not switch Beau with Jokinen.

Very simple, very effective offense.

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Old
03-13-2014, 01:01 PM
  #36
billybudd
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Glass is horrible at puck possession.

And, if you'll recall, his horrible puck possession numbers actually carry some heavy weight because he HAS been separated from Adams a good portion of the year. Whether it's random shifts on the top-two lines or long stints on the 3rd line, Glass' numbers are significantly worse than Adams and he's been in "better" situations.
He was separated from Adams to play with Sutter. In terms of puck possession--and just puck possession--that's like upgrading from a severed head to a severed spine.

Sutter's a terrible possession player and always has been.

Glass is never going to be a good possession player, but he has, at least, been serviceable in the past (particularly when paired with Wellwood). In the right situation (as the slowest, worst player on his line and team, for example), you can make a fair tradeoff between what he lacks in driving the play and what he gives you in size, shotblocking and physicality.

We just happen to not have that kind of roster, barring more Goc miraclework on the fourth and Adams doing the right thing and retiring.


Last edited by billybudd: 03-13-2014 at 01:07 PM.
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Old
03-13-2014, 01:11 PM
  #37
radapex
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Solve the depth problem? No, but it's a step in the right direction.

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Old
03-13-2014, 02:58 PM
  #38
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Bobby Ro just said that BB will likely have to Earn a spot in the top six and is gonna have to start on the 3rd line when he comes back. He suggested that the coaching staff doesn't want to just hand him a top six role due to the fact that he's missed so much time. Can't say I disagree. Until Bennett can prove he can stay healthy in more than just a handful of games, it's best to not throw too much responsibility his way. Bobby RO also suggested that the coaching staff is very happy with Stempniak on Sid's wing.

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03-13-2014, 03:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Michael8771 View Post
Bobby Ro just said that BB will likely have to Earn a spot in the top six and is gonna have to start on the 3rd line when he comes back. He suggested that the coaching staff doesn't want to just hand him a top six role due to the fact that he's missed so much time. Can't say I disagree. Until Bennett can prove he can stay healthy in more than just a handful of games, it's best to not throw too much responsibility his way. Bobby RO also suggested that the coaching staff is very happy with Stempniak on Sid's wing.
I'm not entirely against Bennett starting off on the third line being that he's missed so much time. My concerns are this idea that Bennett should "carry" the third line with Sutter and Pyatt/Glass - as if he should turn them into regular goal-scorers. If he doesn't, will all the knee-jerk yinzers call him a bust? Will the coaching staff scratch Bennett and put Brian Gibbons of the Shire in the line-up instead because it's Bennett's fault Sutter, Pyatt, and Glass don't score?

Another concern I have is with Jokinen and Stempniak. Jokinen can be a very streaky player and disappear for long periods of time. Stempniak has done well with Crosby so far, but it's only been a small sample size. He's been an average player for most of his career. If one of Jokinen or Stempniak go cold and lose effectiveness in a top 6 role, will Bennett at all be considered to replace one of them, or will the coaching staff stubbornly continue to role with an ineffective line because "Bennett gotta earn it! HURR!"

Bennett is still rather unproven in the NHL, but what happens if other veteran players prove what they can't do? At some point, talent and pedigree needs to be given a chance.

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03-13-2014, 03:22 PM
  #40
IcedCapp
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the only people on this team who have to earn their spot on this team are the people who should actually have a spot on the team.

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03-13-2014, 03:36 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
the only people on this team who have to earn their spot on this team are the people who should actually have a spot on the team.
Sadly, you are right...

...and to add to that, some of the people who DO NOT have to earn their spot on the team are among the people who SHOULD actually have to earn a spot on the team...

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03-13-2014, 03:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by steveg View Post
Sadly, you are right...

...and to add to that, some of the people who DO NOT have to earn their spot on the team are among the people who SHOULD actually have to earn a spot on the team...
Not happy with Sid or Geno huh?

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03-13-2014, 03:46 PM
  #43
steveg
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Originally Posted by Michael8771 View Post
Not happy with Sid or Geno huh?
Say what? I was thinking more of the never-can-be-taken-out-of-the-lineup-because-they-are-vets-and-DB-loves-them Adams and Glass...

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03-13-2014, 03:46 PM
  #44
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Not happy with Sid or Geno huh?
Yup. They haven't proven anything unlike the great Craig Adams and Taylor Pyatt!

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03-13-2014, 03:50 PM
  #45
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Say what? I was thinking more of the never-can-be-taken-out-of-the-lineup-because-they-are-vets-and-DB-loves-them Adams and Glass...
Well, you didn't explain yourself well enough.

There are many players who this could be said about. I mean you'd have to be a mind reader to assume it's Adam's or Glass in particular. You could have meant Kunitz and Neal, the possibilities are almost endless!

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03-13-2014, 03:52 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Yup. They haven't proven anything unlike the great Craig Adams and Taylor Pyatt!
Sweet sassy Molassi!

Yeah, he could have meant Pyatt also. There's no way to cover every possible combination of players he could have been talking about.


For future reference please be clear, concise and direct on such matters, so as not to confuse everyone (me).

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03-13-2014, 03:54 PM
  #47
steveg
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I'll try to be more clear, next time...

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03-13-2014, 03:57 PM
  #48
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I'll try to be more clear, next time...
Thank you, for a minute there I thought I was taking craZY PILLS!

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Old
03-14-2014, 02:14 AM
  #49
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Stempniak's early returns show hope for being Duper's replacement.
This frees Bennett up to bolster the 3rd line with Sutter and Gibbons
4th line?...mix and match with Goc at center....but I just don't see Pyatt dressing in the playoffs.

Leave Engo at defense...we will need the depth depending on the futures of Letang and Martin

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03-14-2014, 05:17 AM
  #50
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Solve? No, but it's a major improvement. When BB returns our third line should actually be fairly decent, and Stempniak has made a huge improvement on Sid's line so far. Goc will make either the 3rd or 4th line much, much better. The problem is that injuries will likely strike and once that happens we're right back to the same situation we were in previously with guys in the top 9 who are barely qualified to get regular shifts on the fourth line.

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