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Old
08-13-2005, 08:29 PM
  #1
RedHotChiliPanthers
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Luongo

I'm tired of all this negative talk lately around Luongo. The move made by Keenan was pure strategic (a loophole in the new CBA), the goal is to be able to take players to arbitration for underproducing not for ensuring they don't hold out (holding out is one of the only bargening chip the players have in negotiations) this is very disrespectful for any player who has played his heart out and has kept us from being the laughing stock of the league while we develop our young guns.

If anybody here thinks Roberto does not deserve 5M$+/year, then you're just plain nuts. He's the only reason why we have played any kind of respectable hockey over the last few years. I have a question for you guys, would you consider Luongo one of the top 25 players in the league? well if so, then he sure deserves the money he wants in a long term deal. Here's the list of highest paid players making more than 5M$ this year (not in order) : Naslund, Bertuzzi, Weight, Tkachuk, Pronger, Lidstrom, Guerin, Blake, Sakic, Khabibulin, Iginla, Niedermayer, Forsberg, Federov, Sundin, Nolan, Thornton, Brodeur, Yashin, Jagr and you can add Theodore, Hossa and St-Louis to that list when they eventually sign. If you don't think Roberto belongs with them, well do you think Roberto is one of the top 5 goalies in the league? Here's the list of highest paid goalies: Khabibulin (6.75), Brodeur (5.36), Theodore (5-6 when he gets signed), Kolzig (4.94), Belfour (4.56), Giguere (3.99), Nabokov (3.36), Turco (3.2), Kiprusoff (2.9).
Why do you guys think Luongo has played in front of Theodore for team Canada in last few years? cause he's better (I know it, the coaches know it, the GMs know it and even Gretzky knows it).
I understand completely what Luongo's agent is saying. I can understand Luongo getting around 4-5M$ this year but if he signs long term it must go up as Luongo would be a Free Agent in a couple of years. thus, for him to sign a long term deal with us now and make that kind of commitment, the panthers must open the wallet as one might consider Luongo a top 5 goalie at the moment but trust me in two years he will be a top 2 goalie if not the best in the entire league.

We have a lot to look for this year but it starts with an happy Luongo.

There goes my 1st post on this board (I guarantee the next ones won't be as long).

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08-13-2005, 08:47 PM
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Welcome to the boards. I totally agree with you. IMO, Luongo is one of the top 10 players in the league and deserves at least 5 million for the next 5 years.

I was thinking the Panthers should sign him to a 10 year deal or something long. Give him the max 7.8 for the first 3 years and a lot less over the rest (maybe 4-4.5). This gives him an average that is higher but when the Panthers will need the money, they will have it.

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08-13-2005, 09:39 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupFever
I'm tired of all this negative talk lately around Luongo. The move made by Keenan was pure strategic (a loophole in the new CBA), the goal is to be able to take players to arbitration for underproducing not for ensuring they don't hold out (holding out is one of the only bargening chip the players have in negotiations) this is very disrespectful for any player who has played his heart out and has kept us from being the laughing stock of the league while we develop our young guns.

If anybody here thinks Roberto does not deserve 5M$+/year, then you're just plain nuts. He's the only reason why we have played any kind of respectable hockey over the last few years. I have a question for you guys, would you consider Luongo one of the top 25 players in the league? well if so, then he sure deserves the money he wants in a long term deal. Here's the list of highest paid players making more than 5M$ this year (not in order) : Naslund, Bertuzzi, Weight, Tkachuk, Pronger, Lidstrom, Guerin, Blake, Sakic, Khabibulin, Iginla, Niedermayer, Forsberg, Federov, Sundin, Nolan, Thornton, Brodeur, Yashin, Jagr and you can add Theodore, Hossa and St-Louis to that list when they eventually sign. If you don't think Roberto belongs with them, well do you think Roberto is one of the top 5 goalies in the league? Here's the list of highest paid goalies: Khabibulin (6.75), Brodeur (5.36), Theodore (5-6 when he gets signed), Kolzig (4.94), Belfour (4.56), Giguere (3.99), Nabokov (3.36), Turco (3.2), Kiprusoff (2.9).
Why do you guys think Luongo has played in front of Theodore for team Canada in last few years? cause he's better (I know it, the coaches know it, the GMs know it and even Gretzky knows it).
I understand completely what Luongo's agent is saying. I can understand Luongo getting around 4-5M$ this year but if he signs long term it must go up as Luongo would be a Free Agent in a couple of years. thus, for him to sign a long term deal with us now and make that kind of commitment, the panthers must open the wallet as one might consider Luongo a top 5 goalie at the moment but trust me in two years he will be a top 2 goalie if not the best in the entire league.

We have a lot to look for this year but it starts with an happy Luongo.

There goes my 1st post on this board (I guarantee the next ones won't be as long).

Why doesnt Fleury get the max. After all he was a higher draft choice and he will be a great player one day. There were 29 teams that didnt want Khabby at 6.75, including Tampa, who only offered 5.5. Yes, Roberto will get his money in two years, if he performs. Whether or not its with the Panthers is up to the Panthers as well. Why not just trade him, like St Louis did with Pronger. Get all the talent back and sign a proven free agent for free. Many options with basically everyone a free agent these days. Look at the NFL. Stars are traded and switch teams routinely. Maybe the Panthers would be better off with a guy like Hejduk who signs for 3.9, to stay with his team when others would pay him 5. Thats respect. It works both ways.


Last edited by Optimist*: 08-13-2005 at 09:46 PM.
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08-14-2005, 11:36 AM
  #4
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With Luongo, we're not talking about potential, the guy has proven he's a top3 goalie and we've seen him get better from the time we got him to his actual status.
I know Khabby does not deserve what he got but he was an UFA so that's what happens and trust me as an UFA Luongo would get the max in two years. So for us to sign him long term it's give and take. Also, he's not basing his demand on what Khabby got, he's probably looking at 6 or 6.5 for 5 years. Do you know why both Luongo and Theodore have not signed yet, cause the're both looking at getting long term deals at about the same amounts. So it's a wait and see but then Keenan did his bonehead move thus putting an end to that approach leaving Luongo a bit unhappy.
I know with the new CBA, player movement is totally new game but I'd rather have a proven goalie signed long term has the franchise player than any other player. Tell me why does Roy and Brodeur have all those titles? Why have the Flyers and Sens been unable to win with all the talent they have? NO GOALIE

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08-14-2005, 11:41 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optomist
Why doesnt Fleury get the max. After all he was a higher draft choice and he will be a great player one day. There were 29 teams that didnt want Khabby at 6.75, including Tampa, who only offered 5.5. Yes, Roberto will get his money in two years, if he performs. Whether or not its with the Panthers is up to the Panthers as well. Why not just trade him, like St Louis did with Pronger. Get all the talent back and sign a proven free agent for free. Many options with basically everyone a free agent these days. Look at the NFL. Stars are traded and switch teams routinely. Maybe the Panthers would be better off with a guy like Hejduk who signs for 3.9, to stay with his team when others would pay him 5. Thats respect. It works both ways.
eticket, you might want to learn how to spell you new name. Its Optimist. And yeah, I know my name isn't spelled the way its supposed to be, but I got my reasons.

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08-14-2005, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupFever
With Luongo, we're not talking about potential, the guy has proven he's a top3 goalie and we've seen him get better from the time we got him to his actual status.
I know Khabby does not deserve what he got but he was an UFA so that's what happens and trust me as an UFA Luongo would get the max in two years. So for us to sign him long term it's give and take. Also, he's not basing his demand on what Khabby got, he's probably looking at 6 or 6.5 for 5 years. Do you know why both Luongo and Theodore have not signed yet, cause the're both looking at getting long term deals at about the same amounts. So it's a wait and see but then Keenan did his bonehead move thus putting an end to that approach leaving Luongo a bit unhappy.
I know with the new CBA, player movement is totally new game but I'd rather have a proven goalie signed long term has the franchise player than any other player. Tell me why does Roy and Brodeur have all those titles? Why have the Flyers and Sens been unable to win with all the talent they have? NO GOALIE
I can't argue with you. But, that was the old NHL. No salary cap. Teams that pay goalies that kind of money will be lacking in other areas. Not so sure if Roy or Brodeur would have won any cups if the team around them sucked. Also, the new NHL will be much more wide opened then the 90's. Less 2-1 games. However, i can't argue with you. But there is one fact missing. The sureity of Luongo being that goalie. Why would anyone pay before he proves it?

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08-14-2005, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ClashCitiRockr
eticket, you might want to learn how to spell you new name. Its Optimist. And yeah, I know my name isn't spelled the way its supposed to be, but I got my reasons.
Thx. I knew you would come in handy one day.

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08-14-2005, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist
Not so sure if Roy or Brodeur would have won any cups if the team around them sucked.
Quote:
The sureity of Luongo being that goalie. Why would anyone pay before he proves it?
Ah, there is your problem. The team around Luongo has sucked and he hasn't gotten paid. But he has proven everything he possibly could with such a bad team. He's top two in save percentage during the last season, last three seasons, and active careers. Kippy got $3.3 mil per for havin played HALF a season, even if he did go to the SCF, but with a far superior defensive team. Say bye-bye to Luongo. Oh and its pretty damn funny that Cohen was goin to spend to the max to insure he'd have a winner. Whether that was givin Luongo his contract now or in two years, he was goin to pay him the max regardless.

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08-14-2005, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Optimist
Thx. I knew you would come in handy one day.
Yeah, I guess your buddy Cohen couldn't afford spell check for you since he spent all his money on three old men instead.

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08-14-2005, 12:10 PM
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Clash, you're starting to bait...

It's not like they're any "3 old men" They're proven leaders and 2 are faceoff experts... Two areas this team deperately needed help in...

Yes, they're older than any of us would have hoped, but these particular 3 happen to be nearly the best in those areas and make up for their age with their skill...

They've all had a year off, so how "injury-prone" they are is an unknown until we see them on the ice... a year off does injuries alot of good.

I'm playing wait-and-see on those three, as it's the right thing to do... They've earned it over their years in hockey...

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08-14-2005, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist
I can't argue with you. But, that was the old NHL. No salary cap. Teams that pay goalies that kind of money will be lacking in other areas.
What about teams that pay big money for players like Pronger, Niedermayer, Jagr, Thornton, Lidstrom, Yashin, etc. the're going to be lacking in other areas as well. I'm more confident with Luongo in net making the big money than any of these players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist
The sureity of Luongo being that goalie. Why would anyone pay before he proves it?
Luongo is that goalie and he's proven it, what would he have done more to prove that to you (win the cup with the awful team we had ) If that's what it takes, well having Luongo and Martin as coach, we might be able to prove it to you pretty soon.

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08-14-2005, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madhatter73
Clash, you're starting to bait...

It's not like they're any "3 old men" They're proven leaders and 2 are faceoff experts... Two areas this team deperately needed help in...

Yes, they're older than any of us would have hoped, but these particular 3 happen to be nearly the best in those areas and make up for their age with their skill...

They've all had a year off, so how "injury-prone" they are is an unknown until we see them on the ice... a year off does injuries alot of good.

I'm playing wait-and-see on those three, as it's the right thing to do... They've earned it over their years in hockey...
Im just ignoring him anyway. If we signed young guys he'd say they were too young. If they were 34 he'd say they needed to be 36.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...56398-sun.html

I rest my case

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08-14-2005, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ClashCitiRockr
Yeah, I guess your buddy Cohen couldn't afford spell check for you since he spent all his money on three old men instead.

I came in here minding my business and as usual you attacked me. Leave me alone. If i want to root for the Panthers and you have a hard time with it. Go play on the highway.

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08-14-2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupFever
What about teams that pay big money for players like Pronger, Niedermayer, Jagr, Thornton, Lidstrom, Yashin, etc. the're going to be lacking in other areas as well. I'm more confident with Luongo in net making the big money than any of these players.



Luongo is that goalie and he's proven it, what would he have done more to prove that to you (win the cup with the awful team we had ) If that's what it takes, well having Luongo and Martin as coach, we might be able to prove it to you pretty soon.

And if he does, we can then pay as much as anyone. Why do it now? It doesnt make any sense.

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08-14-2005, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Optimist
Im just ignoring him anyway. If we signed young guys he'd say they were too young. If they were 34 he'd say they needed to be 36.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...56398-sun.html

I rest my case
I don't think an Adam Foote was anywhere near bein too old. Or Derian Hatcher. I'll give a example of what might happen to a near forty year old player after a year off. Dominick Hasek. There were much better options under the age of 35 that were signed inexpensively elsewhere that would have brought much of what this team needed.

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08-14-2005, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist
And if he does, we can then pay as much as anyone. Why do it now? It doesnt make any sense.
That's your problem, it does make sense now as we garantee that he stays with us (I'm sure he's not that attached to Miami as a lot of people seem to think, I'm sure he'd love to play in his hometown) and he can concentrate on winning for us and not think about Mad Mike Keenan, contract negociations and all that nonsense.

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08-14-2005, 02:21 PM
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Would it surprise anyone if Luongo was awarded Turco-type money?

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08-14-2005, 03:21 PM
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Would it surprise anyone if Luongo was awarded Turco-type money?
No, that'd be about right.

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08-14-2005, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sting_fan
Would it surprise anyone if Luongo was awarded Turco-type money?
I don't care for how much money, I just care for how long.

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08-14-2005, 08:14 PM
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I love Roberto, but this whining in the papers about being disrespected and threatening to jump ship as soon as possible is ridiculous. Arbitration is just part of the CBA. It's business. Crosby could whine about only getting the rookie cap. The owners could whine about having to consider Rick Nash's deal as a comparable in negotiations. But that's just how the CBA works.

Both sides get leverage at different parts of the process, and at this stage in his career, Roberto doesn't have as much leverage. In a system that is set up to reward people for age as much as talent, and accomplishments more than potential, let's not jump on Keenan for not handing out $5-7 mil / year deal to a great RFA goalie who has yet to play in a playoff game.

It hurts me to say this, because I'm such a huge Luongo fan. But I think the disrespectful thing here is Roberto trying to create leverage through public whining and threats. That said, I would love to get Roberto under contract before the arbitration case comes up. Get it done Mike!

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08-14-2005, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wint
I love Roberto, but this whining in the papers about being disrespected and threatening to jump ship as soon as possible is ridiculous. Arbitration is just part of the CBA. It's business. Crosby could whine about only getting the rookie cap. The owners could whine about having to consider Rick Nash's deal as a comparable in negotiations. But that's just how the CBA works.

Both sides get leverage at different parts of the process, and at this stage in his career, Roberto doesn't have as much leverage. In a system that is set up to reward people for age as much as talent, and accomplishments more than potential, let's not jump on Keenan for not handing out $5-7 mil / year deal to a great RFA goalie who has yet to play in a playoff game.

It hurts me to say this, because I'm such a huge Luongo fan. But I think the disrespectful thing here is Roberto trying to create leverage through public whining and threats. That said, I would love to get Roberto under contract before the arbitration case comes up. Get it done Mike!
You mentioned Rick Nash and his contract. Well what has he done in the playoffs so far? Did he set any NHL records last season? Did he deserve that contract right now...probably not. But his GM (and one of the best coaches FL ever had) believed that he'll earn that contract in his future play. That's the question that Panther fans should answer. Not is Luongo worth that big payday now...but in the near future. A think an approximate $5 mill/yr for 5 yr contract would keep Luongo happy and be fair to both sides (it could obviously be staggered so its less at the beginning where he's less likely to deserve it).

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08-14-2005, 10:34 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn
You mentioned Rick Nash and his contract. Well what has he done in the playoffs so far? Did he set any NHL records last season? Did he deserve that contract right now...probably not.
Are you forgetting he tied for the league lead in goals and a share of the Maurice Richards Trophy...as a rookie?

He's proven he can deliver the goods. The contract likely came as a realization that, even if he takes a step back, he'll still be ahead of 90% of the league.

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08-14-2005, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Acadmus
Are you forgetting he tied for the league lead in goals and a share of the Maurice Richards Trophy...as a rookie?

He's proven he can deliver the goods. The contract likely came as a realization that, even if he takes a step back, he'll still be ahead of 90% of the league.
And how are Luongo's numbers different cause they're for a goalie? Wins are really a reflection of the team's ability to score goals. Last time I looked, I never saw a goalie listed as a leader in points for any team. I did see Corey Schwab at one point a leader in PIMs when in the minors tho.

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08-14-2005, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadmus
Are you forgetting he tied for the league lead in goals and a share of the Maurice Richards Trophy...as a rookie?

He's proven he can deliver the goods. The contract likely came as a realization that, even if he takes a step back, he'll still be ahead of 90% of the league.
Rick Nash scored 17 goals as a rookie and 41 as a sophomore.

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08-15-2005, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by luongofan
Rick Nash scored 17 goals as a rookie and 41 as a sophomore.
2 years already? I thought he'd only played one...hockey's been gone a LOOONG time

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