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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Peter Forsberg was the most complete hockey player who ever lived.

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Old
03-15-2014, 01:25 AM
  #1
Lemons
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Peter Forsberg was the most complete hockey player who ever lived.

Well, of at least this generation and Barring his battle with injuries.


Elite Passing
Elite Scoring Ability
Elite "gritty intangibles"
Elite forward oriented defensive ability
Elite Skating
Elite IQ

Finished Amazing ppg and in playoffs overall


Won Hart. Won Art Ross. Won 2 Gold medals. Won 2 stanley cups.

He has highlights like no other.


Imo Peter Forsberg > Evgeni Malkin



He does not get enough praise and credit.

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Old
03-15-2014, 01:36 AM
  #2
Fugu
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Sure, but could he also play defense? Mario couldn't play defense. Gretzky couldn't play defense. Missing a Selke there to be called the most complete ever.



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Old
03-15-2014, 01:49 AM
  #3
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
Well, of at least this generation
Because this is the only one that counts, amirite?

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Old
03-15-2014, 01:52 AM
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Ivan13
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Wasn't even the most complete forward on his own team.

Anyway, this does bring up a good question, who was the most complete player in NHL's history? Was it Harvey? Or Beliveau? Lidstrom? Bourque?


Last edited by Ivan13: 03-15-2014 at 02:04 AM.
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Old
03-15-2014, 02:39 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Anyway, this does bring up a good question, who was the most complete player in NHL's history? Was it Harvey? Or Beliveau? Lidstrom? Bourque?
I like that you are including defensemen as candidates. But I think the answer has to be Gordie Howe, right?

Among players I've seen, I'd probably say Mark Messier. Scoring, passing, physical game. Pretty good defensively. Forsberg wasn't a good enough goal scorer and that's an important part of being "complete" IMO, and that's before getting into the injuries.

Lidstrom and Bourque aren't bad answers either, but they are both limited to the amount of goals they could score as defensemen.

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03-15-2014, 02:48 AM
  #6
Plural
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It's Howe. Got to be. I don't think there was any "flaws" in his game.

6X Point leader
5X Goal leader
3X Assist leader
Physical
Fast
Durable
Good defensively, although I am not sure how good he really was.
Wasn't afraid to play the game "dirty" if necessary.

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Old
03-15-2014, 03:26 AM
  #7
Boom Boom Bear
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Denis Potvin had it all
young whippersnappers, imagine an unholy hybrid of Lidstrom & Pronger

best passing blueliner ever
meanest & tuffest d-man ever
best shutdown d-man ever
best puck possession d-man ever
hardest hitting d-man ever
best blueline shot ever
best PPQB ever
catalyst for one of the best offensive attacks ever
best d-man not named Orr ever

captained his team to four straight Stanley Cups

name one thing he couldn't do

he had the broadest elite skillset of any elite d-man i've ever seen, 7 he pulled everything off with such grace, ease & supreme confidence.

Potvin had wimps like Messier for brunch & still had room left over for cantaloupe

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03-15-2014, 03:29 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post
Denis Potvin had it all
young whippersnappers, imagine an unholy hybrid of Lidstrom & Pronger

best passing blueliner ever
meanest & tuffest d-man ever
best shutdown d-man ever
best puck possession d-man ever
hardest hitting d-man ever
best blueline shot ever
best PPQB ever
catalyst for one of the best offensive attacks ever
best d-man not named Orr ever

captained his team to four straight Stanley Cups

name one thing he couldn't do

he had the broadest elite skillset of any elite d-man i've ever seen, 7 he pulled everything off with such grace, ease & supreme confidence.

Potvin had wimps like Messier for brunch & still had room left over for cantaloupe

I find it hard to believe Potvin was a better passer, better at puck possession, or a better PP QB than Orr.

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Old
03-15-2014, 03:40 AM
  #9
ricky0034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post
Denis Potvin had it all
young whippersnappers, imagine an unholy hybrid of Lidstrom & Pronger

best passing blueliner ever
meanest & tuffest d-man ever
best shutdown d-man ever
best puck possession d-man ever
hardest hitting d-man ever
best blueline shot ever
best PPQB ever
catalyst for one of the best offensive attacks ever

best d-man not named Orr ever
captained his team to four straight Stanley Cups

name one thing he couldn't do

he had the broadest elite skillset of any elite d-man i've ever seen, 7 he pulled everything off with such grace, ease & supreme confidence.

Potvin had wimps like Messier for brunch & still had room left over for cantaloupe
let's assume everything I just bolded is true

considering he was apparently the best ever at everything why is he worse than Orr?

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:18 AM
  #10
Reindl87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
Well, of at least this generation and Barring his battle with injuries.


Elite Passing
Elite Scoring Ability
Elite "gritty intangibles"
Elite forward oriented defensive ability
Elite Skating
Elite IQ

Finished Amazing ppg and in playoffs overall


Won Hart. Won Art Ross. Won 2 Gold medals. Won 2 stanley cups.

He has highlights like no other.


Imo Peter Forsberg > Evgeni Malkin



He does not get enough praise and credit.
Amazing player no doubt.
However, neither did he have elite scoring ability, nor amazing PPG. Of course he's 7th overall in PPG. He was a very consistent scorer. In order to call him an amazing PPG player he would have had to crack 1,5PPg at least one, imo. He was a very consistent scorer but he never really stood out that much.
As for goal scoring, he simply cannot be called elite.
Topped out at 30 goals twice. His best GPG is 0.46, average 0.35 Sorry that's not good enough to call him an elite goal scorer.
Don't get me wrong waht an amazing player he was. But imo he gets a little overrated in terms of offensive production.


Last edited by Reindl87: 03-15-2014 at 04:42 AM.
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Old
03-15-2014, 04:28 AM
  #11
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would go with howe here AINEC

theres not a single flaw in his career

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03-15-2014, 04:39 AM
  #12
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Neither did he have elite scoring ability, nor amazing PPG
Huh? Not amazing PPG?

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:51 AM
  #13
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Huh? Not amazing PPG?
His career average is very good. No doubt. But frankly you have to put it a little into perspective. He was a very consistent scorer but he never had really outstanding years. He was never clearly the best scorer in the leauge. His career average certainly benefits of his small number of total games, too.

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Old
03-15-2014, 05:15 AM
  #14
Plural
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Originally Posted by Reindl87 View Post
His career average is very good. No doubt. But frankly you have to put it a little into perspective. He was a very consistent scorer but he never had really outstanding years. He was never clearly the best scorer in the leauge. His career average certainly benefits of his small number of total games, too.
Agreed on many counts. I didn't see your edited post at first.

Forsberg was definitely a great offensive player. Not among the best ever tough.

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Old
03-15-2014, 08:58 AM
  #15
the edler
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
It's Howe. Got to be. I don't think there was any "flaws" in his game.

6X Point leader
5X Goal leader
3X Assist leader
Physical
Fast
Durable
Good defensively, although I am not sure how good he really was.
Wasn't afraid to play the game "dirty" if necessary.
Ambidextrous too.

But to OP, it's Valeri Bure, or Berezin.

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Old
03-15-2014, 09:16 AM
  #16
Dennis Bonvie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post
Denis Potvin had it all
young whippersnappers, imagine an unholy hybrid of Lidstrom & Pronger

best passing blueliner ever
meanest & tuffest d-man ever
best shutdown d-man ever
best puck possession d-man ever
hardest hitting d-man ever
best blueline shot ever
best PPQB ever
catalyst for one of the best offensive attacks ever
best d-man not named Orr ever

captained his team to four straight Stanley Cups

name one thing he couldn't do

he had the broadest elite skillset of any elite d-man i've ever seen, 7 he pulled everything off with such grace, ease & supreme confidence.

Potvin had wimps like Messier for brunch & still had room left over for cantaloupe
Thanks for the input Mr. Potvin.

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Old
03-15-2014, 09:31 AM
  #17
Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
Imo Peter Forsberg > Evgeni Malkin
This cinches it, since everyone knows that Malkin is generally considered the most complete hockey player ever. Also, two Stanley Cups? Wow, no one's ever won two Stanley Cups before.

Howe is a very good suggestion for the title. I think Orr would have to be considered as well. And if Potvin can only be called the best defenceman not named Orr, how can he be in the running? If he's less complete than Orr, then he cannot be the most complete ever.

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Old
03-15-2014, 09:37 AM
  #18
Theokritos
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I find it hard to believe Potvin was a better passer, better at puck possession, or a better PP QB than Orr.
Additionally, even at his peak he wasn't considered the best shutdown defender in the league by NHL coaches.

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Old
03-15-2014, 10:09 AM
  #19
Darth Yoda
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Bobby Orr was more complete than Gordie Howe as far as i'm concerned. But maybe it's though to compare forwards with defencemen here, so the answer could be both.

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03-15-2014, 10:16 AM
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Bobby Orr was more complete than Gordie Howe as far as i'm concerned. But maybe it's though to compare forwards with defencemen here, so the answer could be both.
only reason i picked howe over orr was longlivety

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Old
03-15-2014, 10:16 AM
  #21
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Wasn't even the most complete forward on his own team.

Anyway, this does bring up a good question, who was the most complete player in NHL's history? Was it Harvey? Or Beliveau? Lidstrom? Bourque?
Orr.

/thread.

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Old
03-15-2014, 10:24 AM
  #22
Bear of Bad News
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Orr.

/thread.
I find the "end thread" meme to be insulting to those who have actually put together quality arguments for other players.

Do you have an argument to add?

We won't be ending the thread, so feel free to elaborate.

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Old
03-15-2014, 10:32 AM
  #23
IMLACHnME
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Fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
It's Howe. Got to be. I don't think there was any "flaws" in his game.

6X Point leader
5X Goal leader
3X Assist leader
Physical
Fast
Durable
Good defensively, although I am not sure how good he really was.
Wasn't afraid to play the game "dirty" if necessary.
Glad to see someone use the "F" word in reference to Gordie Howe. My fear is that the image of him is that of an older guy getting by on his elbows and his know-how. Whatever doubts I may have had about him as far as skating ability and speed were dispelled when I saw a classic game between the Leafs and Howe's Wings from the 1957-58 season. He was easily the best skater on the ice, for either team, and he seemed to always have the puck. You could not miss him when he was on the ice.

As for his defensive ability, his teammates vouch for him. He knew where to be and what to do when the puck was in Detroit's end. Apparently, dealing with him in that end was no more fun than dealing with him in the opposition's end.

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Old
03-15-2014, 10:35 AM
  #24
King Forsberg
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Yeah I'd go with Howe or Beliveau

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Old
03-15-2014, 10:35 AM
  #25
IMLACHnME
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Ambidextrous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the edler View Post
Ambidextrous too.

But to OP, it's Valeri Bure, or Berezin.
As you can imagine, it was no fun for Howe - back then - going through life like that.

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