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When is the last time the Penguins made life miserable for other teams' stars?

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03-15-2014, 01:54 PM
  #1
Shockmaster
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When is the last time the Penguins made life miserable for other teams' stars?

Probably 2009, right? They gave Tavares a rough ride in Game 1 last year, but let him run free after that for the rest of that series. We constantly see Crosby and Malkin get draped over in playoffs series by the other team, but no one on the Penguins ever does that to the other team's best players. Is it because that's not "their game"? Is it because Bylsma doesn't know how to match lines? Both? It just looks like soft, scared hockey from the Penguins in that regard.

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03-15-2014, 02:06 PM
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Hail Stannis
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I don't really think we have the personnel to do so but I agree with you and wish we did. If our bottom six can't score and grind it out they need to be physical and make life miserable for the other team when they are out there but they can't do either of those things right now.

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03-15-2014, 02:13 PM
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KTanger58
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Are you talking about this?

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03-15-2014, 02:15 PM
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Shockmaster
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Originally Posted by Hail Stannis View Post
I don't really think we have the personnel to do so but I agree with you and wish we did. If our bottom six can't score and grind it out they need to be physical and make life miserable for the other team when they are out there but they can't do either of those things right now.
You may have a point in regards to this season. But from 2009-2013 the Penguins had players that could have played that role, but didn't. It isn't just about who is playing, it's also about the mentality of the team and what they consider to be "their game."

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03-15-2014, 02:18 PM
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Are you talking about this?
Yes. Morrow laid out Tavares later in that game too. After that though, Tavares had free reign. They let Giroux have his way, and that guy is known to throw hissy fits when people get in his face or when things don't go his way.

The Penguins are just an easy team to play against.

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03-15-2014, 02:37 PM
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It was 2009.

Since then Sid and Geno have been forced to bend over and take it from other teams while the Pens stand by and let the other team's stars run free...

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03-15-2014, 02:39 PM
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Are you talking about this?
Ah the days we looked like a Cup contender

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03-15-2014, 02:40 PM
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It was 2009.

Since then Sid and Geno have been forced to bend over and take it from other teams while the Pens stand by and let the other team's stars run free...
It used to be before then that the Pens would troll the other team's stars right out the gate, and the other team would go nuts trying to get the Pens trolls and thus have less time to troll Sid and Geno.

It also used to be that Sid and Geno didn't have to stand up for themselves.

That probably changed after 2009. Still had some muscle, but the predatory nature went out the door once this became Bylsma's team and Shero began molding it accordingly.

Then, the Islanders debacle happened, and it just accelerated things. Better to cry about being punched it the mouth and build your team based on what you wish the league were instead of what it is.

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03-15-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Probably 2009, right? They gave Tavares a rough ride in Game 1 last year, but let him run free after that for the rest of that series. We constantly see Crosby and Malkin get draped over in playoffs series by the other team, but no one on the Penguins ever does that to the other team's best players. Is it because that's not "their game"? Is it because Bylsma doesn't know how to match lines? Both? It just looks like soft, scared hockey from the Penguins in that regard.
Nope, 2011.

That team was HELL to play against. Injured and healthy. Much more vicious at 100% than the 2009 team. Much more.

Talbot, Rupp and Cooke got hostile in everyone's little world, then Cooke, Orpik and Rupp (and even Kunitz and Godard...Hell, even Wallace used to destroy people) would put them through the wall. Kennedy had balls. Adams used to be able to play a little. I mean, Orpik cracked Stamkos' clavicle on the first shift of the playoffs.

If anybody had anything to say about it, good luck convincing Engo, Asham, Godard and Rupp to change what they're doing (well, the Islanders sort of did, but they needed ringers and the refs ejected our grit guys who weren't hurt or suspended and didn't eject theirs).

Management changed the strategy after the blowback in the Islanders game.

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03-15-2014, 02:45 PM
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Nope, 2011.

That team was HELL to play against. Injured and healthy. Much more vicious at 100% than the 2009 team. Much more.

Talbot, Rupp and Cooke got hostile in everyone's little world, then Cooke, Orpik and Rupp (and even Kunitz and Godard...Hell, even Wallace used to destroy people) would put them through the wall. Kennedy had balls. Adams used to be able to play a little.

If anybody had anything to say about it, good luck convincing Engo, Asham, Godard and Rupp to change what they're doing (well, the Islanders sort of did, but they needed ringers and the refs ejected our grit guys who weren't hurt or suspended and didn't eject theirs).

Management changed the strategy after the blowback in the Islanders game.
Without Sid and Geno, it was hell to play against . . . in the regular season.

You definitely are right about the Isles game. That was the turning point, but I think the culture shift started the day Bylsma made this his team. Ruutu, Roberts, Malone, early Cooke . . . those guys were predators out there, they were proactive about it, and they made sure to give the other team's top guys a little extra focus.

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03-15-2014, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Without Sid and Geno, it was hell to play against . . . in the regular season.

You definitely are right about the Isles game. That was the turning point, but I think the culture shift started the day Bylsma made this his team. Ruutu, Roberts, Malone, early Cooke . . . those guys were predators out there, they were proactive about it, and they made sure to give the other team's top guys a little extra focus.
They were a nightmare in the postseason as well.

They just couldn't score. I don't know if you're a big believer in advanced stats or not, but their fenwick and fenwick close differentials during that series was the highest of any recorded in a playoff series period. That basically means that we were having our way with the Lightning territorially, but lost anyway. This matches what I saw.

I still say if even Matt Cooke had been in the lineup we'd have had enough offense to get to the finals, despite Bylsma and Fleury's playoff foibles that year. That's a testimony to how difficult that roster made life for the opposition.

You just couldn't do anything to them 5 on 5. If you have the puck, you get crushed. If they have the puck, they were too big and strong to relinquish it (trying to get body position on Jordan Staal is one of Dante's circles of Hell). After the whistle, you're emasculated.

And they were running their mouth about all this constantly.

Edit: and as far as Bylsma's "mark on the team," I really think Rupp was the prototype for what you want from a fourth liner and he came in after Dan and shone very, very brightly, playing take no ****ing prisoners grind'em out puck.

This True Christian bull **** hockey is something I suspect to have come from Morehouse. Not Shero. Not Dan.

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Old
03-15-2014, 02:55 PM
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Honour Over Glory
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I think we have the player personnel to put out a line that can be a pain in the neck to play against, but Shero keeps them in the AHL and with injuries, some just aren't available because of that. Also a coach that just doesn't inspire that kind of intensity from the players, that's also huge. These guys can be better, but it also starts from the coach and the system/style he wants to implement. I mean, this "Grind them *****es down" mentality has been absent for years, it only ever rears its head when the big guns are out, then it's let's grind out wins! But when he has a full healthy roster, it's "Let's run and gun and forget playing a solid overall game!"

But a line of Sill, Vitale, Harry Z would be fun to watch and I thought Payerl was a guy that was high on the team's short list of guys that are ready for 4th line duty, he is big, hits often and plays a solid 2-way game, I would rather have seen guys like that get more time than plugs like Pyatt who let up on hits or idiots like Adams that hit for the sake of hitting when it has nothing to do with the play, Glass is with Adams in that regard as well.

The team definitely needs to cut a lot of fat and get back to having a bottom 6 that was just brutal to play against. I kind of miss Talbot as well.

I don't want to see Adams, Glass, and Pyatt back next year at all. I would rather see if Payerl and Sill are ready to be regulars as well as Harry Z.


Goc, Sutter, Megna
Sill, Vitale, Zolnierczyk

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03-15-2014, 02:59 PM
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Since they rehabbed Cooke and took the lead on trying to reduce head shots after Crosby's ordeal.

What a joke this team is. People can run around on us and take liberties with impunity. It's disgusting.

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03-15-2014, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Nope, 2011.

That team was HELL to play against. Injured and healthy. Much more vicious at 100% than the 2009 team. Much more.

Talbot, Rupp and Cooke got hostile in everyone's little world, then Cooke, Orpik and Rupp (and even Kunitz and Godard...Hell, even Wallace used to destroy people) would put them through the wall. Kennedy had balls. Adams used to be able to play a little. I mean, Orpik cracked Stamkos' clavicle on the first shift of the playoffs.

If anybody had anything to say about it, good luck convincing Engo, Asham, Godard and Rupp to change what they're doing (well, the Islanders sort of did, but they needed ringers and the refs ejected our grit guys who weren't hurt or suspended and didn't eject theirs).

Management changed the strategy after the blowback in the Islanders game.
Yeah, the Penguins need to realize the rest of the NHL doesn't want to change. They need to do what is right for themselves, not the rest of the league.

The reason I implied the Penguins haven't been as hard to play against since 2009 as opposed to 2011 is because of the Montreal series in 2010. Gil was constantly in Crosby's kitchen and no one did anything about it. Bylsma kept throwing Crosby out against Gil, and Kunitz and Guerin did nothing to help him on the ice. Not to mention Cammalleri was given a pass when he's been known to cause problems for the Penguins.

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03-15-2014, 03:03 PM
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Yeah, the Penguins need to realize the rest of the NHL doesn't want to change. They need to do what is right for themselves, not the rest of the league.

The reason I implied the Penguins haven't been as hard to play against since 2009 as opposed to 2011 is because of the Montreal series in 2010. Gil was constantly in Crosby's kitchen and no one did anything about it. Bylsma kept throwing Crosby out against Gil, and Kunitz and Guerin did nothing to help him on the ice. Not to mention Cammalleri was given a pass when he's been known to cause problems for the Penguins.
The 2010 team was indeed softer than both 2009 and 2011. Shero brought in a bunch of tough as nails bruisers in the offseason because of that and everybody on the roster stood a foot taller.

And yes. Just say "hey we tried to lead, nobody followed, so we'll do as everybody else does."

Next time James Neal knees somebody in a head pull a Julien and say he was protecting himself from the guy trying to headbutt his knee. The other guys' problems are the other guy's problems. Fight DPS tooth and nail on everything.

It's not right in a moral sense, but it's what works. When in Rome...

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03-15-2014, 03:05 PM
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Re-watch the '08 and '09 playoff runs again. Pens were basically today's version of the Bruins - worse in fact - and dared everyone to do something about it.

And if anyone, anyone doesn't see the difference between a Rinaldo and a Glass, today was exhibit A.

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03-15-2014, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Re-watch the '08 and '09 playoff runs again. Pens were basically today's version of the Bruins - worse in fact - and dared everyone to do something about it.

And if anyone, anyone doesn't see the difference between a Rinaldo and a Glass, today was exhibit A.
Imagine what the 2008 and 2009 Penguins teams would do to the current Flyers team. I personally think the 2008 and 2009 Flyers were better and deeper than the current Flyers, and the Penguins demolished the previous version of the Flyers.

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03-15-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Re-watch the '08 and '09 playoff runs again. Pens were basically today's version of the Bruins - worse in fact - and dared everyone to do something about it.

And if anyone, anyone doesn't see the difference between a Rinaldo and a Glass, today was exhibit A.
Worth noting that the Bruins are the way they are now due to an organizational decision brought about by too many of the softer sort of guys getting seriously hurt.

They circled the wagons and took care of their own. **** the other guy.

Out goes PJ axelsson in comes Milan Lucic (etc etc)

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03-15-2014, 03:13 PM
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Since they rehabbed Cooke and took the lead on trying to reduce head shots after Crosby's ordeal.

What a joke this team is. People can run around on us and take liberties with impunity. It's disgusting.
More or less this. And how much do the Pens' critics care about the wonderful "reform" of the Pens? Zero. None. Not at all.

Except that they are pleased the team is less good now.

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03-15-2014, 03:15 PM
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Bylsma believes that all NHL Players no matter the team should be given a chance to succeed.

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03-15-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Re-watch the '08 and '09 playoff runs again. Pens were basically today's version of the Bruins - worse in fact - and dared everyone to do something about it.

And if anyone, anyone doesn't see the difference between a Rinaldo and a Glass, today was exhibit A.
I would, but I don't want to make myself cry.

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03-15-2014, 03:19 PM
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Bylsma believes that all AHL Players no matter the team should be given a chance to succeed.
Fixed it for you.

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03-15-2014, 03:23 PM
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Darth Vitale
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Winner is the "New Matt Cooke" era comment IMO. I'm not knocking Cooke's turnaround (something for him to be proud of), but that timeframe is roughly when the last semblance of toughness and agitation left this team. If on his own though, had he not changed much, he couldn't have done it by himself.

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03-15-2014, 03:24 PM
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More or less this. And how much do the Pens' critics care about the wonderful "reform" of the Pens? Zero. None. Not at all.

Except that they are pleased the team is less good now.
Even though inwardly they probably saw the Thornton thing as a dick move, they still backed him up publicly. Not saying it's right from a moral standpoint, but from an organizational one? Absolutely.

Funny thing is, Mario's letter was like 3 years ago. Nobody would give a **** anymore if they went back to '09 feistiness, but it sounds like they're more interested in selling a brand now.

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03-15-2014, 03:25 PM
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Winner is the "New Matt Cooke" era comment IMO. I'm not knocking Cooke's turnaround (something for him to be proud of), but that timeframe is roughly when the last semblance of toughness and agitation left this team. If on his own though, had he not changed much, he couldn't have done it by himself.
And yet, he was awesome last spring. He sorta found that happy medium again and it was awesome to watch.

I hope the Pens lose tomorrow. That's how much this team has turned me off.

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