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Old
03-15-2014, 04:26 PM
  #101
Shockmaster
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
The defensemen he's hording have no value though because he continually brings in players to play over them, and extends the coach that institutes it all.
They have value, especially for teams that lack defensive depth. Just because the Penguins haven't played some of them in the NHL yet doesn't mean they don't have any value.

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03-15-2014, 04:26 PM
  #102
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Oh, and an organizational "We don't give a **** what the rest of the league thinks about how dirty we are" helped too.
The Pens used to be an organization like that.

People will say it changed because of the Isles game and Mario's reaction to it and all of the concussion stuff.

I wonder if the change didn't start the day this truly became Bylsma's team.

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03-15-2014, 04:27 PM
  #103
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They also had NO problems screaming at us over the Matt Cooke stuff, despite all of that.
But that's just it. They're gonna play the role of the heel to the bitter end, no matter how it makes them look.

And that right there, is the difference.

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03-15-2014, 04:27 PM
  #104
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It was a pretty predictable loss after hearing Kunitz was out.

Pens aren't a good team without Neal Kunitz BB Dupuis Martin, nothing really surprising about this game.

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03-15-2014, 04:28 PM
  #105
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Oh, and an organizational "We don't give a **** what the rest of the league thinks about how dirty we are" helped too.
Too bad Mario had to open his mouth after that Islanders game and then all of a sudden from then we became softer and softer every year. I loved it when Pens were tough to beat....now teams look forward to playing us because we are easy, even if they don't win.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:29 PM
  #106
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The Bruins are hypocrites, but they don't care. Maybe the Penguins should stop caring as well. What everybody else thinks hasn't helped this team in recent years.
The Pens won a cup by not caring.

In that regard, the Pens were EXACTLY like the Bruins.

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But that's just it. They're gonna play the role of the heel to the bitter end, no matter how it makes them look.

And that right there, is the difference.
Remember when WE were the heel. Each time, recently and in the past, it meant cups. And, then Mario would grow a conscience and care about something more than more cups.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:31 PM
  #107
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You guys have it all wrong.

The Pens DON'T care. They don't care what anyone thinks. That's why they continue to do the **** they do.

If outside perception had ANY effect on them, things would be different. They are arrogant nationally and well-insulated locally.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:31 PM
  #108
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It was a pretty predictable loss after hearing Kunitz was out.

Pens aren't a good team without Neal Kunitz BB Dupuis Martin, nothing really surprising about this game.
Pens don't beat the Flyers with all of those guys in, and definitely not in a seven game series.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:32 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
The Pens used to be an organization like that.

People will say it changed because of the Isles game and Mario's reaction to it and all of the concussion stuff.

I wonder if the change didn't start the day this truly became Bylsma's team.
Don't know about that. He certainly didn't discourage any of it during his first run.

In fact, he encouraged it. "Forecheck, hit, invest now and it pays off later" They led the league in fights right up until the Islanders brawl game.

No, it's pretty much a symbiotic relationship from the top all the way on down.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:33 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
You guys have it all wrong.

The Pens DON'T care. They don't care what anyone thinks. That's why they continue to do the **** they do.

If outside perception had ANY effect on them, things would be different. They are arrogant nationally and well-insulated locally.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:33 PM
  #111
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Boston picked three slots after the Pens in 2006.

Pittsburgh took Staal, Sneep, and Strait in the first three rounds.

Boston took Kessel, Lucic, and Marchand.

Better draft picks, and better long term asset management of the top pick for Boston, and it's not even close.
That's some nice 50/50 hindsight you've got there.

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03-15-2014, 04:33 PM
  #112
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Am glad I went back to playing video games after it was 2-0.

I said even before the game we were ****ed and yep....

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:34 PM
  #113
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Boston picked three slots after the Pens in 2006.

Pittsburgh took Staal, Sneep, and Strait in the first three rounds.

Boston took Kessel, Lucic, and Marchand.

Better draft picks, and better long term asset management of the top pick for Boston, and it's not even close.
It was brilliant of Chiarelli to have chosen the last of the consensus top 5 players available. Pure genius.

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03-15-2014, 04:34 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Too bad Mario had to open his mouth after that Islanders game and then all of a sudden from then we became softer and softer every year. I loved it when Pens were tough to beat....now teams look forward to playing us because we are easy, even if they don't win.
And that actually gets worse, because then they fill in those roles with "grit" guys like Glass, who's only good at agitating fans of the Penguins.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:34 PM
  #115
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This team sucks, and it's going to suck until big changes happen. Call a spade a spade. Our bottom six is the most laughably soft, easy to play against bottom six I've seen us have since Sid's been in the league. Our coach is an arrogant, stubborn idiot. Our generational talents have to play with the likes of Kobasew, Dupuis, Pyatt, Jokinen, Gibbons (and that's WHEN Kunitz and Neal are healthy). Our defense is riddled with aging vets who are awful, getting worse, and complacent.

The entire construction of this team is abysmal. Just for a second, forget we have Bylsma as a coach. He's a huge problem, but nobody could coach this team to a Cup as it's constructed right now. Shero's got a Hell of a lot of moves to make in order to fix all of the glaring issues, and I'm not sure he's got the guts or the brains to run the team as a business, and shift his focal point from a family oriented team to a team hell bent on winning Cups.

Guys like Rossi can call the fans who are pissed spoiled all they want. They have no idea what they're talking about when they spout off stats about Bylsma's winning record, the fact that we're atop a mind-numbingly bad division, and the fact that we've had a constant injury bug since we've won the Cup. None of those change the fact that Bylsma's a schmuck and Shero set this team up for consistent failure by throwing random pieces from a junkyard onto a roster with Sid, Geno, Neal and Kunitz. We're all gonna see the team golfing in April anyway.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:35 PM
  #116
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That's some nice 50/50 hindsight you've got there.
I would have taken Toews personally:

But taking Staal over Toews AND Kessel?

Go look at how many Shero draft choices played in today's game and then maybe you can rejoin the discussion.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:37 PM
  #117
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I would have taken Toews personally:

But taking Staal over Toews AND Kessel?

Go look at how many Shero draft choices played in today's game and then maybe you can rejoin the discussion.
Several teams had Staal as the 2nd overall, including Chicago. It was shown on a 2006 Caps draft special, they just didn't get the chance.

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03-15-2014, 04:37 PM
  #118
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Don't know about that. He certainly didn't discourage any of it during his first run.

In fact, he encouraged it. "Forecheck, hit, invest now and it pays off later" They led the league in fights right up until the Islanders brawl game.

No, it's pretty much a symbiotic relationship from the top all the way on down.
That part, yes. It didn't change until the Isles game.

But, how the team protected Sid and Geno. That changed. Guys like Ruutu would troll the other teams top guys, and they would be PROACTIVE about it. Early Cooke too. **** off the other team and take even limited attention away from Sid or Geno.

Guys like Asham and Rupp didn't do that. They checked. But, they protected REACTIVELY.

Subtle difference but IMO a big difference for Sid and Geno, even before that Isles game.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:38 PM
  #119
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Pens don't beat the Flyers with all of those guys in, and definitely not in a seven game series.
I disagree, i'd pick a healthy pens team in a 7 game series against the Flyers, pens can beat any team in the east if there healthy except Boston.

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03-15-2014, 04:39 PM
  #120
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That's some nice 50/50 hindsight you've got there.
The thing with 50/50 hindsight is that it's unfair as an isolated thing, but what about as an 8 year trend?

Look at 8 Shero drafts. Name 1 pick, save Maatta, where hindsight wouldn't be reasonable.

I get that you could do that more often than not. But, for every pick but ONE? C'mon.

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I disagree, i'd pick a healthy pens team in a 7 game series against the Flyers, pens can beat any team in the east if there healthy except Boston.
I don't see this team having the character or the coaching to beat anyone in a game 7.

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It was brilliant of Chiarelli to have chosen the last of the consensus top 5 players available. Pure genius.
Who had the better asset management of his top pick?

I see you ignored that emphasis, as well as Shero's brilliance in rounds 2 and 3 (or for pretty much every pick NOT named Olli Maatta over 8 drafts).

But, do go on . . .

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:39 PM
  #121
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And that actually gets worse, because then they fill in those roles with "grit" guys like Glass, who's only good at agitating fans of the Penguins.
Gone are the days of Rupp, Roberts, Ruutu, etc. We are in a new age, the age of the new grit, the age of the Tanner Glasses!






The fall of an empire.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:39 PM
  #122
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This team sucks, and it's going to suck until big changes happen. Call a spade a spade. Our bottom six is the most laughably soft, easy to play against bottom six I've seen us have since Sid's been in the league. Our coach is an arrogant, stubborn idiot. Our generational talents have to play with the likes of Kobasew, Dupuis, Pyatt, Jokinen, Gibbons (and that's WHEN Kunitz and Neal are healthy). Our defense is riddled with aging vets who are awful, getting worse, and complacent.

The entire construction of this team is abysmal. Just for a second, forget we have Bylsma as a coach. He's a huge problem, but nobody could coach this team to a Cup as it's constructed right now. Shero's got a Hell of a lot of moves to make in order to fix all of the glaring issues, and I'm not sure he's got the guts or the brains to run the team as a business, and shift his focal point from a family oriented team to a team hell bent on winning Cups.

Guys like Rossi can call the fans who are pissed spoiled all they want. They have no idea what they're talking about when they spout off stats about Bylsma's winning record, the fact that we're atop a mind-numbingly bad division, and the fact that we've had a constant injury bug since we've won the Cup. None of those change the fact that Bylsma's a schmuck and Shero set this team up for consistent failure by throwing random pieces from a junkyard onto a roster with Sid, Geno, Neal and Kunitz. We're all gonna see the team golfing in April anyway.
yup

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:41 PM
  #123
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You're right. If Yoda was part of the 2008 and 2009 Penguins teams, he would have ignored the guards and lunged right at the Emperor and stabbed him in the face.


"**** YOU SIDIOUS! MY EMPIRE THIS IS NOW!"

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:41 PM
  #124
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Imagine how the Pens would look? we would look so different and be extremly tough to beat. We would not have the depth the Bruins do, but we would have some tough SOB's on the roster like Lucic probably, probably would have drafted Kessel or Toews at the Staal draft.
Funny thing is that, back in '09, Shero wanted us to be tough to play against, he completely lost the plot after the Talbot incident + Cooke' suspensions.

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Old
03-15-2014, 04:41 PM
  #125
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That part, yes. It didn't change until the Isles game.

But, how the team protected Sid and Geno. That changed. Guys like Ruutu would troll the other teams top guys, and they would be PROACTIVE about it. Early Cooke too. **** off the other team and take even limited attention away from Sid or Geno.

Guys like Asham and Rupp didn't do that. They checked. But, they protected REACTIVELY.

Subtle difference but IMO a big difference for Sid and Geno, even before that Isles game.
I still remember after game 2 against the Rags in '08. Hall had just scored an empty netter to put the game away, and with a few seconds left Avery tried to troll Fleury. In 2 seconds Gill and Laraque jumped him and Avery went into the fetal position.

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