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Does anybody else wish Shero was more of a "cowboy"

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Old
03-16-2014, 07:58 PM
  #26
Jacob
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I'd rather he be a construction worker or indian.

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Old
03-16-2014, 08:02 PM
  #27
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I bet Shero feels great. Why change when you feel great?


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Old
03-16-2014, 08:05 PM
  #28
BrunoPuntzJones
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I'd rather he be a construction worker or indian.
I don't know, this team really needs a cop who isn't afraid of rough trades.

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Old
03-16-2014, 08:20 PM
  #29
Darth Vitale
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Originally Posted by QuesoFundido View Post
I would really like to see him exhibit some huge, hairy danglers and stop being everybody's surrogate mommy. Fire somebody!, make a deal without having hot cocoa and good cry with that player. Start fixing some things. He doesn't need to be a Paul Holmgren level of reckless a-hole, but, come on, hurt some feelings, step on a neck. Being a risk averse ninny clearly hasn't worked.
Queso Fundido... I'm not sure what's better, your name or your post.

"Hurt some feelings, step on a neck."

Especially if it's Dan Bylsma's feelings.

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:20 PM
  #30
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Freeptop View Post
I'm sorry, what? We can't give Shero credit for Neal because he traded a player that was drafted by Patrick for him? Does that mean we can't give Craig Patrick any credit for the Francis and Samuelsson trade, either?

If Shero won "Patrick's Cup", then how many players on the Cup Winning team do you think were acquired by Shero vs Patrick? Did you know that over half of that team had been acquired by Shero?

Staal, Kunitz, Guerin, Sykora, Satan, Cooke, Dupuis, Fedotenko, Adams, Boucher, Eaton, Gill, and Garon were all brought in by Shero. And those are just the significant names.

The players left over from Patrick were: Crosby, Malkin, Kennedy, Talbot, Orpik, Letang, Scuderi, Gonchar, Goligoski and Fleury. And Goligoski basically didn't play in the '09 playoffs. That's 10 players, including Goligoski.

Yes, those include some of the best players on the team, but if the contention is that they only won the Cup because of those players, well, most of those guys are still Penguins, so how the previous success belongs to Patrick and the current "failures" belong to Shero, I can't really follow.

Oh, and for the record, here is how Craig Patrick built a team in his last year:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000502006.html
He came out of the lockout and signed washed-up LeClair, washed up Thibault, and soon-to-retire Palffy. The only good signings he made out of the lockout were Gonchar and Recchi.
He thought Lasse Pirjeta, Tomas Surovy and Shane Endicott were NHL players.

Oh, and take a look at Patrick's drafts from 1995 through 2003. This is the guy who went into the 2003 draft and came out with Ryan Stone and Jonathan Filewich from the second and third rounds. (Some of the players drafted after Stone, in particular, are simply painful to look at from a "what if?" perspective).
Just a few points:

1. Carl Sneep says 'hi'.

2. I notice that you omitted later round picks from Craig Patrick's last two drafts. I am sure it has nothing to do with Letang (3rd, 2005), Vitale (7th, 2005), Alex Gologoski (2nd, 2004), and Tyler Kennedy (4th, 2004). Why, in just those four picks, Craig Patrick beats the non-first round picks Ray Shero has to show on his roster from the last 8 drafts.

3. Robert Bortuzzo, and Olli Maatta? Care to venture a guess as to what they've got in common. They are the only two Ray Shero picks from the 8 Ray Shero drafts to suit up tonight.

4. Looking at that 'who's who' above, two quick things pop to mind: One, the Patrick assets were and are the core. The Shero assets were expendable. They still are, despite what Ray Shero thinks. Two, Kunitz was acquired with a Patrick asset. Frankly, the only non-free agents on this team who can be tied into those 8 Ray Shero drafts are Sutter, Maatta, Bennett (when healthy), Despres (when everyone is hurt), Bortuzzo (when everyone but Despres is hurt). You can add Dupuis if you like, although he was swapped with Armstrong for all intents and purposes. So, add it all up, look at the guys playing when everyone is healthy, and only Sutter and Maatta can be tied to 8 Ray Shero drafts.

There are grounds to have criticized a lot of Craig Patricks draft work. Comparing it to someone's even less competent work isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by QuesoFundido View Post
The bolded part is kind of my point, the guys on the Shero list you have there (save kunitz) are all bottom 6 fodder or severely declining former top 6ers that are no longer on the team anyway. Shero has yet to build a quality core of his own, with a big ol' Shero stamp on it. This collective pile of hot trash is all Ray. By no means am I a Craig Patrick ball-washer, his time had come, but the truth is Ray Shero has yet to build anything of value around the embarassment of riches left at his feet. On top of that, he allows his "special needs" head coach get away with murder on a nightly basis.
Yeah, this.

One last thought: Greg Malone with his tight scouting budget did so much better a job of identifying NHL players than Ray Shero and his circle jerk of friends with far less limited resources has done.

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:24 PM
  #31
IcedCapp
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I don't want a Cowboy, but I wish - and maybe this has changed since he said it - he was more hands on. The coach should be allowed to use the players how he wishes, until his wishes are dumb, nonsensical, and actively hurting the team.

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:28 PM
  #32
vabm8
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Maybe like 5-10% more cowboy. Even then it's more me wanting the Shero that built the 2008, 2009 teams back than anything. More than anything I want him separated from Bylsma, they're a bad combination.

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:29 PM
  #33
Woodrow
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When the Penguins flame out in the playoffs hopefully Shero and Bylsma both get canned.
While I don't think Shero is necessarily a bad GM, I think his philosophy is wrong when it comes building this Penguins team. The Penguins have the two best forwards in the game today and instead of trying to maximize that strength he tries to build a defensive powerhouse by drafting and signing dmen. And what's the point of drafting all these dmen if you are just going to sign some vet that is going to play instead of them?? What a waste.

I think in general GMs around the league are way too risk adverse. Given the relatively short tenure most GMs have I think more should be taking huge risks and trying to hit a homerun especially if they are one of those playoff bubble teams.

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:44 PM
  #34
KIRK
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Originally Posted by vabm8 View Post
Maybe like 5-10% more cowboy. Even then it's more me wanting the Shero that built the 2008, 2009 teams back than anything. More than anything I want him separated from Bylsma, they're a bad combination.
That guy was a pretty good GM.

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:50 PM
  #35
KIRK
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I don't want a Cowboy, but I wish - and maybe this has changed since he said it - he was more hands on. The coach should be allowed to use the players how he wishes, until his wishes are dumb, nonsensical, and actively hurting the team.
Never before seen footage of IcedCapp communicating with Shero about ridding the Pens universe of Bylsma . . .


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Old
03-16-2014, 09:58 PM
  #36
Jules Winnfield
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Other than drafting forwards once every decade, it'd be nice if Shero would jump in Bylsma's or the team's ass once in a while. You can tell with the same **** going on over and over again, the country club is in full effect...just par for the course.

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:59 PM
  #37
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Other than drafting forwards once every decade, it'd be nice if Shero would jump in Bylsma's or the team's ass once in a while. You can tell with the same **** going on over and over again, the country club is in full effect...just par for the course.
I really don't see Emperor Shero putting down his fiddle to do that.

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Old
03-16-2014, 11:52 PM
  #38
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It really is a country club again and we have a coach who cant coach in big pressure games. Cup in 2009 with a hybrid Therrien system but ever since then its been choke after choke.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:04 AM
  #39
KIRK
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Originally Posted by ozpensfan View Post
It really is a country club again and we have a coach who cant coach in big pressure games. Cup in 2009 with a hybrid Therrien system but ever since then its been choke after choke.
Cutting through all of it, I don't see how anyone can dispute that either as fact or in terms of adverse impact.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:10 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
That guy was a pretty good GM.
This is what leads me to believe Shero just has blind faith in Bylsma. Shero lets Bylsma play the players he wants and how he wants and doesn't demand better from Bylsma after he keeps falling flat on his face. Shero got rid of Therrien's favorite guy Michel Ouellet, but he won't send Bilbo Gibbons back to the AHL or waive Craig Adams. It's like ever since 2009 Shero has been soft and has been more of a buddy than a boss.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:14 AM
  #41
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
This is what leads me to believe Shero just has blind faith in Bylsma. Shero lets Bylsma play the players he wants and how he wants and doesn't demand better from Bylsma after he keeps falling flat on his face. Shero got rid of Therrien's favorite guy Michel Ouellet, but he won't send Bilbo Gibbons back to the AHL or waive Craig Adams. It's like ever since 2009 Shero has been soft and has been more of a buddy than a boss.
Or maybe Chuck Fletcher was a good foil for Shero, like Fitzie and maybe Yeo were for Bylsma, and both now are surrounded by 'yes' men.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:16 AM
  #42
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I heard Mark Madden the other day - He mentioned that if he was the GM and we had another playoff failure no one on the team or coaching staff would be safe apart from #87.. No that im advocating everything that comes out of that guys mouth but after the fadeouts and a team who cant get up for big games and constantly outcoached, im kind of starting to agree.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:18 AM
  #43
Shockmaster
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Or maybe Chuck Fletcher was a good foil for Shero, like Fitzie and maybe Yeo were for Bylsma, and both now are surrounded by 'yes' men.
Any maybe Shero's relationship with Therrien was far more professional and less buddy-buddy then his relationship with Bylsma currently is. Probably easier to get a real evaluation of how the team is playing and the way the players are being used without looking through friend glasses.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:23 AM
  #44
Honour Over Glory
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Or maybe Chuck Fletcher was a good foil for Shero, like Fitzie and maybe Yeo were for Bylsma, and both now are surrounded by 'yes' men.
I think it's a bit of this, him and Bylsma have too strong of a bond and it's impaired Shero's judgment.

That and I think the scouting staff...they're too American happy, I mean I like the whole NCAA bound kids, education is important, but this is a hockey team, these guys are supposed to be future potential NHL'ers.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:24 AM
  #45
KIRK
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Originally Posted by ozpensfan View Post
I heard Mark Madden the other day - He mentioned that if he was the GM and we had another playoff failure no one on the team or coaching staff would be safe apart from #87.. No that im advocating everything that comes out of that guys mouth but after the fadeouts and a team who cant get up for big games and constantly outcoached, im kind of starting to agree.
That should've been the case two summers ago.

And, #71 is safe, no matter how much it irks Madden. A full NTC and the potential to pull a Kovalchuk (however remote) will do that.

EDIT: The GM should go before #71. The only one who shouldn't go before #71 is #87.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:25 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I think it's a bit of this, him and Bylsma have too strong of a bond and it's impaired Shero's judgment.
No, that's true. But, I was thinking more in the context of Shero's management style. I wonder if Fletcher was less of a yes man and more of an honest foil. I've always thought Fitzie and even Yeo were that for Bylsma before he got his hand picked stooges.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:29 AM
  #47
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If we fail this post season - The entire coaching staff should be sent packing. Closely followed by the GM

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:29 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No, that's true. But, I was thinking more in the context of Shero's management style. I wonder if Fletcher was less of a yes man and more of an honest foil. I've always thought Fitzie and even Yeo were that for Bylsma before he got his hand picked stooges.
Probably why Jacques Martin is being minimized. He's not a "yes man" and Shero doesn't want to upset Bylsma by telling him to start leaning on Martin more.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:32 AM
  #49
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Probably why Jacques Martin is being minimized. He's not a "yes man" and Shero doesn't want to upset Bylsma by telling him to start leaning on Martin more.
I'm not sure that Martin has a pulse at this point.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:34 AM
  #50
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Id say pending what Buffalo do with Ted Nolan - Id be gunning straight for him to be the new coach

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