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How many points does erik karlsson have to beat duncan keith by to win the norris????

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Old
03-17-2014, 06:49 PM
  #126
Stephen
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
If you honestly believe this, I feel bad for you.
I've literally never watched a Leaf Sens game and worried about what Karlsson might do. He'll score some nice goals but he gives away the puck like candy on Halloween. Casual, cocky and not Norris caliber.

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03-17-2014, 07:23 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Blitzkrug View Post
Chara hasn't been himself this season. As someone who campaigns against giving the Norris out based more on offensive stats, i would find it hypocritical to award a Bruin it based on setting a career high in goals when his defensive play has been less up to his standard.

It should go to Keith or Pietrangelo. As far as i'm concerned, Karlsson isn't even in the discussion.
His standard is the best defensive defenseman in the NHL though. I agree he hasn't been as good this year and I'd give it to Pietrangelo or Keith as well, but I think he could be in contention to be a finalist.

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03-17-2014, 07:29 PM
  #128
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I don't get how a foward (EK) can be eligible for best defenseman.

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03-17-2014, 07:36 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Magnifique View Post
I don't get how a foward (EK) can be eligible for best defenseman.
This is still a joke people use?

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Old
03-17-2014, 07:53 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by WantEggRoll View Post
This is still a joke people use?
It isn't much of a joke. It is more of an observation.

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Old
03-17-2014, 08:08 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Magnifique View Post
It isn't much of a joke. It is more of an observation.
Paul Maclean and Bryan Murray must be a couple of idiots calling this guy a defensemen. I'm surprised you don't have a job in the league yet!

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03-17-2014, 08:18 PM
  #132
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Don't see how it can be Weber when he's only +2 better than Karlsson, and is considered a defensive defenseman. It's going to Keith.

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03-17-2014, 08:19 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Karlsson is a compiler who does nothing to really control the game. He puts up numbers and makes flashy rover type plays but he's more like a Sandis Ozolinsh in his prime than a classic Norris calibre defenseman who can control a game at both ends. He plays the game like the NBA, generate a goal and just as easily let the other team come back with one of their own.
This post just proves that you dont watch Karlsson play

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03-17-2014, 08:20 PM
  #134
Erik Alfredsson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I've literally never watched a Leaf Sens game and worried about what Karlsson might do. He'll score some nice goals but he gives away the puck like candy on Halloween. Casual, cocky and not Norris caliber.
He's a pretty big dick then considering he takes away the third most candy out of all defesneman.

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Old
03-17-2014, 08:22 PM
  #135
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To answer the OP...

EK had a terrible start. To truly be "favored" he would have to finish with over 80pts, 20+ ahead of Keith, and likely be top 10 in NHL scoring.

That will not happen.

It's been Keith's for a pong time now.

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03-17-2014, 08:22 PM
  #136
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I love Duncan Keith and hold him in very high regard, but Karlsson is a much better offensive player.

Chicago is 1st in scoring and Ottawa is 14th. Karlsson is 1st on the Sens in points, Keith is 5th on the Hawks in points.

Now, Keith is a better defensive player than Karlsson, obviously, but the gap between the two is not very large. I'd say Keith should get the Norris, but Karlsson is elite.

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Old
03-17-2014, 08:24 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnifique View Post
I don't get how a foward (EK) can be eligible for best defenseman.
Well one won it last year.

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Old
03-17-2014, 08:26 PM
  #138
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Sens fan here also saying that the chance of Karlsson winning is very small and personally I dont believe he deserves it. Yes he is a minus player but so is most of Ottawa players. I do believe however that he deserves quite a bit of that minus rating especially early in the season where he just seem lost defensively or the effort was not there. He isnt much as a turnover machine lately and been much better defensively but I still get nervous when he is stuck in the ottawa, zone. For me personally that is not a norris winner.

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03-17-2014, 08:29 PM
  #139
Erik Alfredsson
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
I love Duncan Keith and hold him in very high regard, but Karlsson is a much better offensive player.

Chicago is 1st in scoring and Ottawa is 14th. Karlsson is 1st on the Sens in points, Keith is 5th on the Hawks in points.

Now, Keith is a better defensive player than Karlsson, obviously, but the gap between the two is not very large. I'd say Keith should get the Norris, but Karlsson is elite.
I don't think anyone is disputing karlsson as worse than Keith offensively, I'm pretty sure that he's considered the best Offensive Dman in the NHL. I agree with your post though, karlsson gets too much hate.

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Old
03-17-2014, 08:34 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nifty zdeno View Post
the last game vs the Bruins, Karlsson was minus 4. On one play he stood in front of his keeper and froze, he thought Bergeron was going shoot. bergeron skated slowly around him and tucked it in. It was hilarious how bad Karlsson looked on that play, he is no defenceman, he is a 6th forward.
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Originally Posted by JFG View Post
We've all seen it. It wasn't like you described it.
His description was certainly pretty close though..


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Old
03-17-2014, 08:34 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Well one won it last year.
Bahahah somebody doesn't watch the habs.

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Old
03-17-2014, 08:40 PM
  #142
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if he finishes strong AND Ottawa makes the playoffs, he has a strong chance at the Norris.

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03-17-2014, 08:41 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
As much as people here realize it's a dumb stat, voters still use +/- so I really doubt Karlsson or Weber will win it with +/- that bad
Agree +/- is a bit dated and the media voting is a joke, I believe that is the same crew that had Ovi at two different positions last season

Let the coach's, GM's, or the players vote then the award would have credibility. To be clear I would kill to have any of the Norris trophy winners on my team but I am not a fan of the media voting.

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03-17-2014, 08:53 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Well one won it last year.
I guess Oilers fans must think everyone's a forward as they haven't seen a good defenseman since Chris Pronger


Last edited by SB164: 03-17-2014 at 09:11 PM.
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Old
03-17-2014, 09:12 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
Bahahah somebody doesn't watch the habs.
If you replace your lw with a dman your defensive transitions would be much more fluid as you wouldn't have a lw on defence when pk rushes the ozone from behind the his own net

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03-17-2014, 10:16 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
Ottawa fan here that agrees on both counts.

Karlsson should not win or be nominated for the Norris. The first half of his season was too shaky in his own end. He was less than a year off of a surgically repaired achilles for that period of time, so to dismiss him as serious Norris contender isn't all that shocking; it should have been expected from the outset, really.

Now, Giordano. The guy is scoring on pace with the lead pack of defensemen (minus Karlsson) despite suffering a difficult injury during the season. And to boot, he's been on the positive side of the plus/minus ledger, on an awful team. He doesn't have a single statistical blemish. I think he's right up there with Pietrangelo, Subban, Hedman, Niskanen, and Doughty for contention.

If Suter, or Keith were to actually score goals in the home stretch, they would vault up to the top of the leaderboard. They're clearly in contention with the aforementioned, but I have a real hard time getting past such mediocre goal totals for guys that log the ice time that these two do. History shows that you should score ten goals at the very least to win a Norris.
English is not my first language so its funny how wrong it can be sometimes. Its sounded to me as you actually mentioned Niskanen as a contender for the Norris Trophy haha.

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Old
03-17-2014, 10:21 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
Bahahah somebody doesn't watch the habs.
To be fair, he's an Oiler fan. Not sure he remembers what an NHL defenseman actually looks like.

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Old
03-17-2014, 11:32 PM
  #148
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I don't think there's a realistic chance he'll win because of his -15.

That isn't to say I think that that should be a (muchless the) deciding factor, but there's no way the voters are going to give the Norris to a guy who is -15, regardless of the validity of the arguments behind why he is a -15, it just isn't going to happen.

I will also emphasize that I am not suggesting Karlsson should win the Norris (though to be honest, I'm not sure who I would pick), rather that I just don't think there's a chance that he will for the wrong reasons.

EDIT: This guy said it very well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeySens View Post
Sens fan here also saying that the chance of Karlsson winning is very small and personally I dont believe he deserves it. Yes he is a minus player but so is most of Ottawa players. I do believe however that he deserves quite a bit of that minus rating especially early in the season where he just seem lost defensively or the effort was not there. He isnt much as a turnover machine lately and been much better defensively but I still get nervous when he is stuck in the ottawa, zone. For me personally that is not a norris winner.
It's tough to argue against this statement. Watching the Sens in their own zone this year when Karlsson is on the ice does make me nervous, and I agree that that alone should come pretty close to disqualifying a defenseman from the Norris.

His defenseman game has taken a step back this year - whether due to injury or not I can't say for sure - there's no doubt about that.

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Old
03-17-2014, 11:39 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by AJRAYMOND View Post
That's because they watch the guy play. Great offensively but soft defensively. Even yesterday when he appeared to actually lay a body check it was proven to be a cheap shot to the face. There's a reason the Hawks put Oduya and Hjalmarsson out in big time defensive sitiuations.
Like when Keith and Hammer played equal competition during the Hawks cup run?

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Old
03-17-2014, 11:45 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Wedenmark View Post
English is not my first language so its funny how wrong it can be sometimes. Its sounded to me as you actually mentioned Niskanen as a contender for the Norris Trophy haha.
Well, Rob Rossi certainly won't be voting for Letang, so...

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