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David Desharnais a legit #2 center. Part Deux

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03-17-2014, 06:29 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think in off-season we'll need to explore the opportunity for a quality upgrade(at D or wing) by packaging something like DD/Eller+Gorges/Emelin.
Today, between (a) Eller+Emelin; or (b) Desharnais+Gorges, which pair do you think would have the higher market value?

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03-17-2014, 06:31 PM
  #102
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Today, between (a) Eller+Emelin; or (b) Desharnais + Gorges, which pair do you think would have the higher market value?
Good question, I'm sure some team will take a chance that Eller may re-live last season(pay more) and Gorges is the safer bet over Emelin right now.

As for a or b, no clue. Depends team needs I guess? Why is it only a or b? there's 4 possible combinations.

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03-17-2014, 06:34 PM
  #103
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Meh, so Subban's word is literal when vindicating Desharnais, but full of hidden meaning when vilifying Therrien?
Ok you're right. Desharnais sucks. Subban loves everyone.

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03-17-2014, 06:38 PM
  #104
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Yeah don't need advanced stats because then you'd realise Eller is having a poor season.

Guess we should have traded for Tim Thomas. I mean he should have Price's spot. He's proven in the playoffs. So ****ing ridiculous.
Advanced stats would also show DD having a similar poor season before being given preferential treatment. Goaltending is not our issue and I wouldn't have gone out and signed Briere but now that he's here? His pedigree alone merits giving him a serious look. You know 109 playoff points > 48 regular season points. Just saying. It was fine to see you defend DD back in the day but we have better options now and if the plan is to have him back next season hogging all the best wingers and PP time over Galchenyuk then I want no part of it!

We have our two best wingers(one playing on his off-wing) centered by an under-sized pass-only center. How hard do you think it will be to shut that line down in the PO? Hate to break it to you but our two last wins have come from non-playoff teams, one of which took a miracle comeback. I'm starting to think that MB didn't go out and pick up Vanek as a vote of confidence in MT afterall but rather as an attempt to plug the whole that is making this team sink faster than the titanic. You better hope that the other lines find their scoring touch, and lots of it because the immediate future is not looking optimistic.


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Old
03-17-2014, 06:43 PM
  #105
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Advanced stats would also show DD having a similar poor season before being given preferential treatment. Goaltending is not our issue and I wouldn't have gone out and signed Briere but now that he's here? His pedigree alone merits giving him a serious look. You know 108 playoff points > 48 regular season points. Just saying. It was fine to see you defend DD back in the day but we have better options now and if the plan is to have him back next season hogging all the best wingers and PP time over Galchenyuk then I want no part of it!

We have our two best wingers(one playing on his off-wing) centered by an under-sized pass-only center. How hard do you think it will be to shut that line down in the PO? Hate to break it to you but our two last wins have come from non-playoff teams, one of which took a miracle comeback. I'm starting to think that MB didn't go out and pick up Vanek as a vote of confidence in MT afterall but rather as an attempt to plug the whole that is making this team sink faster than the titanic. You better hope that the other lines find their scoring touch, and lots of it because the immediate future is not looking optimistic.
They can put Vanek on Plekanec's wing, they didn't take him off for DD.

About pass-only: Gotta disagree. Pass first? Sure. Just during DD's streak there is only one player on the habs with more goals: Pacioretty. He's 2nd in goals during that span.

Vanek was added for the reason that we lack quality wing depth. Can't wait till it starts going in for him, it's an extra weapon.

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03-17-2014, 06:56 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
They can put Vanek on Plekanec's wing, they didn't take him off for DD.
So they just randomly started playing him on his off-wing AND with Desharnais?

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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
About pass-only: Gotta disagree. Pass first? Sure. Just during DD's streak there is only one player on the habs with more goals: Pacioretty. He's 2nd in goals during that span.

Vanek was added for the reason that we lack quality wing depth. Can't wait till it starts going in for him, it's an extra weapon.
An "extra weapon" on the exact same line as our (apparently) 2nd best sniper Desharnais. That's a great idea since obviously DD and Vanek can score simultaneously on the same play.


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03-17-2014, 06:56 PM
  #107
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Good question, I'm sure some team will take a chance that Eller may re-live last season(pay more) and Gorges is the safer bet over Emelin right now.

As for a or b, no clue. Depends team needs I guess? Why is it only a or b? there's 4 possible combinations.
Have to take you at your word that you are not sure if DD+Gorges might have higher market value than Eller+Emelin. You do know a number of hockey insiders have estimated DD's market value at zero, right? But I hope there would be takers this summer. I'd prefer DD+Gorges be traded over Eller+Emelin by a wide margin. But I think the return would be much better for Eller+Emelin. The other NHL teams simply aren't building their rosters with small players the way the Habs have.

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03-17-2014, 07:00 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
They can put Vanek on Plekanec's wing, they didn't take him off for DD.

About pass-only: Gotta disagree. Pass first? Sure. Just during DD's streak there is only one player on the habs with more goals: Pacioretty. He's 2nd in goals during that span.

Vanek was added for the reason that we lack quality wing depth. Can't wait till it starts going in for him, it's an extra weapon.
5th in goal scored, and Briere and Galchenyuk only have one less than DD...


but yeah, the first 20 games he didnt play, only the last 45 count.

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03-17-2014, 07:02 PM
  #109
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Have to take you at your word that you are not sure if DD+Gorges might have higher market value than Eller+Emelin. You do know a number of hockey insiders have estimated DD's market value at zero, right? But I hope there would be takers this summer. I'd prefer DD+Gorges be traded over Eller+Emelin by a wide margin. But I think the return would be much better for Eller+Emelin. The other NHL teams simply aren't building their rosters with small players the way the Habs have.
I believe they said this last season or beginning of this one correct? Things change.

Getting away from the DD vs Eller value for a minute. I'm not sure Emelin has higher value than Gorges. I think people would pay more for a gorges type but who knows.

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03-17-2014, 07:02 PM
  #110
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5th in goal scored, and Briere and Galchenyuk only have one less than DD...


but yeah, the first 20 games he didnt play, only the last 45 count.
And ONLY 2014 counts right?

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03-17-2014, 07:19 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
They can put Vanek on Plekanec's wing, they didn't take him off for DD.

About pass-only: Gotta disagree. Pass first? Sure. Just during DD's streak there is only one player on the habs with more goals: Pacioretty. He's 2nd in goals during that span.

Vanek was added for the reason that we lack quality wing depth. Can't wait till it starts going in for him, it's an extra weapon.
With DD and Pac hogging all the PP and O-zone starts it just comes down to that's where Vanek would best maximize his playing time. Simple as that. Not because of chemistry or some grand strategy. Ideally you'd want your two best goal scorers on separate lines in order to keep the other team from being able to just focus on shutting down one line similar to how you have malkin and crosby on separate lines even though they can come on the ice together when the team needs that extra offensive push.

DD obviously has skills in the shootout so I don't understand why he can't transfer those skill into the game. At the very least it would make him less predictable.

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03-17-2014, 07:26 PM
  #112
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With DD and Pac hogging all the PP and O-zone starts it just comes down to that's where Vanek would best maximize his playing time. Simple as that. Not because of chemistry or some grand strategy. Ideally you'd want your two best goal scorers on separate lines in order to keep the other team from being able to just focus on shutting down one line similar to how you have malkin and crosby on separate lines even though they can come on the ice together when the team needs that extra offensive push.

DD obviously has skills in the shootout so I don't understand why he can't transfer those skill into the game. At the very least it would make him less predictable.
I'm surprised you actually brought up max getting favourable minutes too, bravo(no sarcasm). Few people acknowledge it.

You're probably right but it opened the door to mixing up other lines and attempting an EGG line reunion(now still EGG but Gionta instead of Gallagher). Still, this isn't to please DD more than it is to get Vanek going and he's had chances.

Ideally habs should go into playoffs with at least 2 confident scoring lines, hopefully Vanek acquisition will provide that.

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03-17-2014, 07:27 PM
  #113
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He's put up PPG #'s if you take away his first twenty games, hes a good center for what were paying him.
The DD argument: 1/3 of his DD's season thus far didnt count! But that Eller kid with 1 point in 20+ games. He sucks!!!!

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03-17-2014, 07:31 PM
  #114
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Today, between (a) Eller+Emelin; or (b) Desharnais+Gorges, which pair do you think would have the higher market value?
For teams willing to go for potential: Eller+Emelin

For teams wanting known values: DD+Gorges

Always depends how much balls the GM has. My preference would be to trade DD+Gorges, since I believe in Eller and Emelin potential.

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03-17-2014, 07:42 PM
  #115
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The mythical West again...

Somehow they're more physical than the Atlantic division ??

Come on... Anaheim has one punch line and zero depth, SJ no leadership, Colorado no experience... Chicago is the team to beat, I admit while LA has a cup experience and STL, well... we'll see, but lacks a true offensive leader, they're build like Boston, But I say the original version is better than the copycat.
IF The Habs ever get that far, it will likely be due, in part, to Desharnais' strong playoff performance. The premise is ridiculous to start with…..

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03-17-2014, 07:44 PM
  #116
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I'm surprised you actually brought up max getting favourable minutes too, bravo(no sarcasm). Few people acknowledge it.

You're probably right but it opened the door to mixing up other lines and attempting an EGG line reunion(now still EGG but Gionta instead of Gallagher). Still, this isn't to please DD more than it is to get Vanek going and he's had chances.

Ideally habs should go into playoffs with at least 2 confident scoring lines, hopefully Vanek acquisition will provide that.
If Plekanec-brière-Gallagher can be a consistent offensive threat and DD's line keeps producing. Timely secondary scoring from Eller-galchenyuk-Gionta will be sufficient, provided the 4th line can eat up minutes in the offensive zone with a strong forecheck and cycling game like when Moore's line was in action not so long ago….

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03-17-2014, 07:50 PM
  #117
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IF The Habs ever get that far, it will likely be due, in part, to Desharnais' strong playoff performance. The premise is ridiculous to start with…..
Not to mention during last 3 years DD vs "Big teams"

Toronto: 15GP, 9 PTS
Boston : 13GP, 10 PTS
LA: 2GP, 1 PT
SJS: 3GP, 3 PTS

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03-17-2014, 07:50 PM
  #118
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And ONLY 2014 counts right?
you're making progress, that's a start.

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03-17-2014, 07:51 PM
  #119
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If Plekanec-brière-Gallagher can be a consistent offensive threat and DD's line keeps producing. Timely secondary scoring from Eller-galchenyuk-Gionta will be sufficient, provided the 4th line can eat up minutes in the offensive zone with a strong forecheck and cycling game like when Moore's line was in action not so long ago….
Big IFs really. I think if we're clicking we're a dangerous team. We're seeing some life from other lines and Subban seems to be in top form. It looks promising as long as we don't get cold at the wrong time.

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03-17-2014, 07:52 PM
  #120
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I think in off-season we'll need to explore the opportunity for a quality upgrade(at D or wing) by packaging something like DD/Eller+Gorges/Emelin.
why in hell would you want to trade such a great player ? seriously ?

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03-17-2014, 07:53 PM
  #121
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you're making progress, that's a start.
I try. I wish I could say same about you. C'mon ECW, you argue over DD like you're out to trick people. I've told you we'll use whatever metric you want but you never answer. You do this quite often so either choose a metric that YOU like or let it go because we aren't going anywhere with this unless we're talking the same language.

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03-17-2014, 07:55 PM
  #122
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why in hell would you want to trade such a great player ? seriously ?
So if I say DD is better than some guys like you give credit for I get comments like "DD FANBOY!!!"

If I say I'm open to trading him I get sarcastic replies like this.

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03-17-2014, 07:57 PM
  #123
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I try. I wish I could say same about you. C'mon ECW, you argue over DD like you're out to trick people. I've told you we'll use whatever metric you want but you never answer. You do this quite often so either choose a metric that YOU like or let it go because we aren't going anywhere with this unless we're talking the same language.
we wont, you're willing to trade a great player on an awesome contract... there's no logic to it. Wich is the metric you shoud try to use once in a while...

you put stats such as 40 pts in 50 games or something... and on one of the following posts you're willing to trade the guy with such great numbers who's making only 3.5M a year...

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03-17-2014, 07:58 PM
  #124
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we wont, you're willing to trade a great player on an awesome contract... there's no logic to it. Wich is the metric you shoud try to use once in a while...

you put stats such as 40 pts in 50 games or something... and on one of the following posts you're willing to trade the guy with such great numbers who's making only 3.5M a year...
Is this serious? You're not happy that I'm being objective? Been saying I'm open to trading DD since the beginning. I've argued timing and wing depth, that's all.

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03-17-2014, 07:59 PM
  #125
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So if I say DD is better than some guys like you give credit for I get comments like "DD FANBOY!!!"

If I say I'm open to trading him I get sarcastic replies like this.
it's not sarcastic, you talk about a guy who's producing at a 70 pts pace or so (cause well, YOU seem to forget all the games he was ineffective)...

and yet you want to trade him ?

really ?


70 pts pace or so for 3.5M a year... and you'd want to trade that ?

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