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Old
03-18-2014, 01:29 PM
  #26
Dr Jan Itor
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Originally Posted by Billy Mays Here View Post
So the team generates some good chances two games in a row. . . . and Yeo still changes up the lines. Not sure if you're arguing for Yeo or against Yeo at this point.
I'd say I'm mildly annoyed at the change (Coyle back to center, Haula out) as I don't deem it to be necessary at the moment. In this case, I'm questioning the switch up, which I guess would be "against Yeo" if I had to make such a black and white distinction at the moment.

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03-18-2014, 01:35 PM
  #27
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We've let it "play out" for nearly ten years now, and we're still an awful team offensively.
FIFY.

To say that Yeo is the only problem on this team is being narrow-sighted. I think Lemaire would get more out of this team but that is only because he's Lemaire.

The problem with this organization goes deeper than just the coach. We have talent but the talent we have just doesn't work well with one another. They don't compliment one another well. And this isn't just this year. It was last year. And the year before that. And the year before that...

At some point, you got to start digging into the roots of the organization and pulling them out. This team never went through a proper rebuild (and can't now) and this team hasn't shaken off the defensive first mindset of the previous organization.

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03-18-2014, 01:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Billy Mays Here View Post
We've let it "play out" for nearly three years now, and we're still an awful team offensively.
And how many pieces of that offense have changed since then? Chemistry does not happen overnight, and in some cases can take years to develop. But excuse me if I'm not losing sleep over scratching a guy with roughly the same point per game level as Prosser.

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03-18-2014, 01:49 PM
  #29
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And how many pieces of that offense have changed since then? Chemistry does not happen overnight, and in some cases can take years to develop. But excuse me if I'm not losing sleep over scratching a guy with roughly the same point per game level as Prosser.
Boston changed up their offense a good bit this past off-season and they don't seem to be doing too bad. Dallas certainly isn't struggling to score goals after the changes they've made the past few seasons.

For Christ's sake we're scoring less goals then Calgary, Nashville and even FLORIDA!!!

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03-18-2014, 02:03 PM
  #30
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Its not a bad bounce or we ran into a tough Boston team. Its the collection of three season and getting way better on paper with few results.

We need to play great hockey against a lot of top teams just to get in the play offs.

Yeo is a first time head coach who is trying to figure it out. We are not an expansion team, we are not(shouldn't be) an up and comer team. Our windo is now.

Has a futrue in coaching. I just hope it is not with the wild.

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03-18-2014, 02:03 PM
  #31
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Yeo has boxed himself into a corner at this point with his lines.

Heatley
Brodziak
Coyle

The above players have zero accountability on an everyday basis within their games. Regardless, they're going to get their (high leverage) minutes. Which in of itself seems foolish as all are flat out not producing.

Heatley (who I actually do sort of like what he provides, more than most I guess) has no business playing on the 4th line. If you're willing to play him at that spot, you've got to take it the next step and show the seeds as a leader of this team and take him out of the line-up. He's going to give this team nothing that it needs out of the fourth line and with minimal touches that he'll receive throughout a game(s), how do you expect him to transition to what really is the top PP unit (Granlund & Parise)? Put simply, it's failing miserably.

Brodziak... Through his last 116 games (last season + this year), he's contributed 33 points. How that translates to being a guy who's impervious to any sort of accountability towards gaffs in the ONE area he's supposed to be dependable in is beyond me. This is a player who's never moved down the line-up and as been one of the top TOI players over Yeo's tenure. Which is baffling.

I'm not sure what more there is to say about Coyle that hasn't already been said at this stage. Put simply, this is a guy who's average more TOI per game and nearly as much TOI on the PP as Granlund. Why, exactly?


Then you have the top line of Parise, Granlund, and Pominville. Pretty hard to break up the ONLY line that creates consistent pressure AND production. But at this rate it's likely going to have to be done...

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:04 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Mays Here View Post
Boston changed up their offense a good bit this past off-season and they don't seem to be doing too bad. Dallas certainly isn't struggling to score goals after the changes they've made the past few seasons.

For Christ's sake we're scoring less goals then Calgary, Nashville and even FLORIDA!!!
So? All I care about is scoring one more than the opponent and I don't give a crap how it's done. We could be the worst offense in the NHL, if we win, I don't care. So all these teams did make changes and it is working better, that does not mean it should be working the same way here. The lineups are different, players are different, systems are different, nothing is the same from team to team and just because it can work quicker somewhere else does not mean it will be that quick here. Every time this stupid discussion gets brought up the same question is always who do you bring in? We have our Laviolette lovers out there because he is all offense but he is ZERO defense which with the players we have, may not work out so well. So really, is there anyone out there who is SO much better that we could actually get that it is actually worth it? IMO no.
Losing teams generally have one thing in common, they keep changing coaches all the time, every few seasons because the quick fix did not happen. Everyone wants to find the Hitchcock turnaround in STL or the Sutter one in LA but those are not as common as people may think they are, they are just the ones that get the publicity. I mean for god's sake there are actually people on here who wish Richards was still coaching this team. The grass is not always greener.
Fans are the most impatient, quick fix wanting, I deserve a title, I know so much more than this bozo people on tha planet and Minnesota fans are worse than most.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:07 PM
  #33
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I'm getting a little tired of the idea that "generating scoring chances" is a satisfactory result. There seems to be this widespread myth that shooting percentage is just a measure of luck, and that a team that generates lots of shots (or even attempted shots) will get lucky and "progress to the mean" eventually. But when the recurring theme of a coach's entire three-year tenure has been an inability to capitalize on scoring chances despite an obvious ability to frequently outwork opponents...yeah, something's very wrong there, and it's not luck.

Like I've said before, I think we have the highest effort-to-scoring ratio in the league. Most work put in for the least reward.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:11 PM
  #34
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Teams score the most when they generate odd man situations, whether in transition or small area.

When you have a team that collapses in the defensive zone as often as the Wild do and are as willing to abandon the offensive zone like we've seen, it's hard to expect them to score at a high rate. Which means they have to lean on an effective PP (which has been neutralized by attempting to "balance" each unit) and finding a bounce here and there.

Hard to win games that way. And as we seen last night, zero room for error.

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03-18-2014, 02:13 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
I'm getting a little tired of the idea that "generating scoring chances" is a satisfactory result. There seems to be this widespread myth that shooting percentage is just a measure of luck, and that a team that generates lots of shots (or even attempted shots) will get lucky and "progress to the mean" eventually. But when the recurring theme of a coach's entire three-year tenure has been an inability to capitalize on scoring chances despite an obvious ability to frequently outwork opponents...yeah, something's very wrong there, and it's not luck.

Like I've said before, I think we have the highest effort-to-scoring ratio in the league. Most work put in for the least reward.
When you have the quality of scorers on this team + the quality of prospective scorers we should have * playmaking centers as this team should have on the 1st and 2nd lines, we should be seeing a progression of better scoring. But we don't. As a friend of mine said, this is a team where 30 goal scorers go to die. We may have 2 this year. If we are lucky.

Truly wish they would figure out what to do with the blueline to even out the minutes. Suter has looked so exhausted out there in the later stages of games as of late.

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03-18-2014, 02:16 PM
  #36
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The big question I have is how do teams like Phoenix or Columbus score more goals then us?? This baffles me. There are so many bad teams that score more then us. I don’t think its a system thing. Everyone talks about most systems on a team to team basis aren't that different from each other. Everytime I watch the Wild I see us generating chances but we can't bury the puck.

This organization has never had a team that can score goals. Its crazy. I feel like we could crosby malkin getzlaf perry etc on this team and we would still struggle to score more then 2 goals a game. I just don't get it.

Edit: I didn't mean Phoenix or Columbus is bad. I just mean teams with lineups that are worse then us on paper


Last edited by MNjens: 03-18-2014 at 02:23 PM.
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Old
03-18-2014, 02:19 PM
  #37
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I said at the beginning of the year I'd be happy if we could have at least one 30 goal scorer, but I never thought the team overall would still struggle to score so mightily. When only two guys are scoring the majority of your goals, there's a problem.

Why is Boston so darn good? Because their team as a whole is scoring, not just a couple players. They have six, yes, SIX different players with 20+ goals.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:37 PM
  #38
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If we don't make it past the first round this year, he's getting fired.

Have patience, restless Wild fans.

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03-18-2014, 02:44 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
I'm getting a little tired of the idea that "generating scoring chances" is a satisfactory result. There seems to be this widespread myth that shooting percentage is just a measure of luck, and that a team that generates lots of shots (or even attempted shots) will get lucky and "progress to the mean" eventually. But when the recurring theme of a coach's entire three-year tenure has been an inability to capitalize on scoring chances despite an obvious ability to frequently outwork opponents...yeah, something's very wrong there, and it's not luck.

Like I've said before, I think we have the highest effort-to-scoring ratio in the league. Most work put in for the least reward.
This is pretty much how I'm feeling right now.

Like I said before, I don't think Yeo is totally to blame as there are many parts that make an organization sink or swim, but Yeo is supposed to be the rudder of the ship and I'm not sold that he's effective or that anything will improve during the rest of his tenure. Yeo was obviously on the hot seat a couple months ago, but I doubt he makes it to the draft.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:44 PM
  #40
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If Yeo does get canned, I assume it's going to go down something like this:



"You fire his ass right now or you're gone too"

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Old
03-18-2014, 03:44 PM
  #41
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Can I ask a question to the group:

Chara was always out there basically for all of PGP and MKC lines because Yeo was running them right after one another. Why didn't he change it up to try to get Chara (and Hamilton was his linemate IIRC) to bench and then get the scoring lines out there and either make Boston change their lines on the fly and have them in mid rest mode, or get a mismatch?

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Old
03-18-2014, 03:44 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
I'm getting a little tired of the idea that "generating scoring chances" is a satisfactory result. There seems to be this widespread myth that shooting percentage is just a measure of luck, and that a team that generates lots of shots (or even attempted shots) will get lucky and "progress to the mean" eventually. But when the recurring theme of a coach's entire three-year tenure has been an inability to capitalize on scoring chances despite an obvious ability to frequently outwork opponents...yeah, something's very wrong there, and it's not luck.

Like I've said before, I think we have the highest effort-to-scoring ratio in the league. Most work put in for the least reward.
Don't forget the little collapses that happen at random and often turn into catastrophic collapses at just the right time to really **** things over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by this providence View Post
Teams score the most when they generate odd man situations, whether in transition or small area.

When you have a team that collapses in the defensive zone as often as the Wild do and are as willing to abandon the offensive zone like we've seen, it's hard to expect them to score at a high rate. Which means they have to lean on an effective PP (which has been neutralized by attempting to "balance" each unit) and finding a bounce here and there.

Hard to win games that way. And as we seen last night, zero room for error.
And speaking of the transition game, despite getting two on ones, we never get any speed past that one last defender, nor do we manage to force the defender to defend one player or the other, and almost always we try to force some cute pass as we approach the crease that gets stick checked away by the lone defender.

Our transition game is garbage because we literally don't know what to do in those situations. We almost never take the shot like we should when the defender is between you and the other player on the rush with you. Shoot the damn thing. Go low if you have to. If you're gonna try a pass try to pass it off the goalie for the rebound.

And the grinding...I should just find one of my old posts about the god damn grinding. I really did have high hopes for the team earlier this year when we were playing hockey that was Red Wings-esque. Our possession game was strong as hell. All we lacked was scoring. Yeo panics and drops us back to the grinding system and we started getting really flukey goals.

What we should have done is kept with the possession game and just worked on shooting the puck in better. This team constantly shoots the puck into the goalies crest, or fails to elevate the puck with an open net and the goalie doing the splits, or we just miss the net completely on a close attempt. It's infuriating. These are all little things that a coach should be trying to tweak in practice. Buy people used dryers to destroy, Crosby style, to get people to learn how to shoot accurately if you need to.

And of course the effort....and dont get me started on the god damn powerplay.

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03-18-2014, 03:45 PM
  #43
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I thought it was more of a Bergeron vs. Granlund and Chara vs. Koivu.

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03-18-2014, 03:53 PM
  #44
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...

And the grinding...I should just find one of my old posts about the god damn grinding. I really did have high hopes for the team earlier this year when we were playing hockey that was Red Wings-esque. Our possession game was strong as hell. All we lacked was scoring. Yeo panics and drops us back to the grinding system and we started getting really flukey goals.

What we should have done is kept with the possession game and just worked on shooting the puck in better. This team constantly shoots the puck into the goalies crest, or fails to elevate the puck with an open net and the goalie doing the splits, or we just miss the net completely on a close attempt. It's infuriating. These are all little things that a coach should be trying to tweak in practice. Buy people used dryers to destroy, Crosby style, to get people to learn how to shoot accurately if you need to.

And of course the effort....and dont get me started on the god damn powerplay.
Thank you. Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking as well. Possession teams can vary their game so much more than grinding teams. It's really hard to grind yourself consistent success. Skill beats will etc.

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03-18-2014, 04:07 PM
  #45
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I thought it was more of a Bergeron vs. Granlund and Chara vs. Koivu.
We were watching the encore at work today, Chara was out there against both 1 and 2 lines of ours. Chara and Hamilton were around the 24 minute mark for TOI. Koivu and Granlund were around 20 minutes. Appeared they followed what you're saying later in the game when Koivu and the 2nd line dropped off a bit to limit as much shooting time for the PGP line

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03-18-2014, 04:07 PM
  #46
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I thought it was more of a Bergeron vs. Granlund and Chara vs. Koivu.
That's when we unleash the McCormick line

I actually forgot McCormick was on the team when they were talking about him on the broadcast. "WHO?"

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03-18-2014, 04:34 PM
  #47
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Yeo has boxed himself into a corner at this point with his lines.

Heatley
Brodziak
Coyle

The above players have zero accountability on an everyday basis within their games. Regardless, they're going to get their (high leverage) minutes. Which in of itself seems foolish as all are flat out not producing.

Heatley (who I actually do sort of like what he provides, more than most I guess) has no business playing on the 4th line. If you're willing to play him at that spot, you've got to take it the next step and show the seeds as a leader of this team and take him out of the line-up. He's going to give this team nothing that it needs out of the fourth line and with minimal touches that he'll receive throughout a game(s), how do you expect him to transition to what really is the top PP unit (Granlund & Parise)? Put simply, it's failing miserably.

Brodziak... Through his last 116 games (last season + this year), he's contributed 33 points. How that translates to being a guy who's impervious to any sort of accountability towards gaffs in the ONE area he's supposed to be dependable in is beyond me. This is a player who's never moved down the line-up and as been one of the top TOI players over Yeo's tenure. Which is baffling.

I'm not sure what more there is to say about Coyle that hasn't already been said at this stage. Put simply, this is a guy who's average more TOI per game and nearly as much TOI on the PP as Granlund. Why, exactly?


Then you have the top line of Parise, Granlund, and Pominville. Pretty hard to break up the ONLY line that creates consistent pressure AND production. But at this rate it's likely going to have to be done...
I honestly think Haula is getting scratched because Yeo doesn't want to show up Brodziak by having him get replaced by someone "below" him.

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Old
03-18-2014, 04:39 PM
  #48
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Thinking about it, I could understand Haula getting scratched if he had committed the 2-3 turnovers that Brodziak did, but he didn't, Brodziak did. Just a very odd and illogical decision.

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03-18-2014, 05:43 PM
  #49
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If we don't make it past the first round this year, he's getting fired.

Have patience, restless Wild fans.
And what about Fletcher? This team with the talent it has, should be able to make it past the 1st round.

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03-18-2014, 05:54 PM
  #50
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We ask for 3 scoring lines, Yeo gives us 3 scoring lines. I love Haula, but I see no problem with this line up.

Three scoring lines with one large defensive line, this is what fans have asked for, but now they are mad

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