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Why was Snow so quick to get rid of Moulson

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Old
03-19-2014, 05:43 PM
  #76
Strome18
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Originally Posted by stranger34 View Post
lol that's quite the conspiracy theory. collude to drive down the price on Vanek so one team gets him for peanuts while the fans of the Islanders revolt and force out Wang?

this makes sense to you?
Look I did say I hate hypothetical, but the commissioner did come from the NBA and Stern was such a stooge.

This would not surprise me at all. That being said no one or no data would support this outlandish idea.

So I assume I am drinking again.

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03-19-2014, 05:51 PM
  #77
luki here
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
he dragged Tavares down? Is that why Tavares said in an interview that he would be devastated if Moulson was ever not an Islander? Sure sounds like someone who is being dragged down
that sounds so vague, link?

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Old
03-19-2014, 05:53 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Strome18 View Post
Look I did say I hate hypothetical, but the commissioner did come from the NBA and Stern was such a stooge.

This would not surprise me at all. That being said no one or no data would support this outlandish idea.

So I assume I am drinking again.
I am all for conspiracy theories, but I just don't see this one working. I don't see how a bad trade return is anywhere near a dynamic enough means to garner your stated endgame (ousting wang)

I think it's more likely our GM is a doofus.

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Old
03-19-2014, 07:48 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by luki here View Post
that sounds so vague, link?
here is the link, 2 weeks before the trade, it sounds like Tavares would not even want to be here if he saw his buddy was traded

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/97...-big-pay-raise

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Old
03-19-2014, 07:55 PM
  #80
YearlyLottery
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
here is the link, 2 weeks before the trade, it sounds like Tavares would not even want to be here if he saw his buddy was traded

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/97...-big-pay-raise
Once again, what did you expect him to say?

"Moulson is a good friend but he plays no defense and I carry him all game long"

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Old
03-19-2014, 08:03 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by YearlyLottery View Post
Once again, what did you expect him to say?

"Moulson is a good friend but he plays no defense and I carry him all game long"
in that article there is nothing but praise for Moulson, in Tavares's regular interviews it sounds like he is vague and is saying what everyone wants to hear, however in that article if you do not get that Tavares will pretty much be devastated if Moulson is gone I do not know what to say

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Old
03-19-2014, 08:28 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
here is the link, 2 weeks before the trade, it sounds like Tavares would not even want to be here if he saw his buddy was traded

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/97...-big-pay-raise
That isn't hockey journalism. Bunch of numbers with some sweet-heart quotes thrown in. No analysis of how moulson and tavares affect each other, no analysis of moulson's strengths and weaknesses. Total fluff piece, quite meaningless.

Basically: "We played hahd...but those bounces".

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Old
03-19-2014, 08:31 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
in that article there is nothing but praise for Moulson, in Tavares's regular interviews it sounds like he is vague and is saying what everyone wants to hear, however in that article if you do not get that Tavares will pretty much be devastated if Moulson is gone I do not know what to say
Does it? To me it sounds like someone saying what is expected of them. It also really isn't JTs decision at all, he would be the first to understand that.

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Old
03-19-2014, 09:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by YearlyLottery View Post
Once again, what did you expect him to say?

"Moulson is a good friend but he plays no defense and I carry him all game long"
Vanek was as close to one dimensional as it goes. I think josh bailey type really drags the team down. After 11 games they get rid of MM, it was too soon. Not sure why they are getting rid of guys wanting to stay in our organization since Snow's tenure thus far? It's beyond me! Glad I am able to catch the hawks on NBC sports...

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Old
03-20-2014, 05:08 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Potvinscup5 View Post
Vanek was as close to one dimensional as it goes. I think josh bailey type really drags the team down. After 11 games they get rid of MM, it was too soon. Not sure why they are getting rid of guys wanting to stay in our organization since Snow's tenure thus far? It's beyond me! Glad I am able to catch the hawks on NBC sports...
Moulson sucks... Get over it.

I bet PMB and DP wanted to stay in the organization too, why didn't we sign them?

Where does Moulson slot on a cup winner? If he doesn't slot in the top six he's useless, and he's WAY to unskilled to play on a top six of a cup contender. Would I have went after Vanek ahead of a goalie or top four defenseman? No, but whoever is crying for Moulson back, THIS DOES NOT CHANGE THE SEASON. Nabby and Vis changed the season by getting hurt. Snow not getting a goalie changed the season.

The Vanek trades are different discussions but just because a guy scores 30 goals playing with John Tavares does not make him good by any means.

Bailey might be having a bad year but he's not bringing the team down, look at our joke of a goalie playing.

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03-20-2014, 07:07 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by YearlyLottery View Post
Moulson sucks... Get over it.

I bet PMB and DP wanted to stay in the organization too, why didn't we sign them?

Where does Moulson slot on a cup winner? If he doesn't slot in the top six he's useless, and he's WAY to unskilled to play on a top six of a cup contender. Would I have went after Vanek ahead of a goalie or top four defenseman? No, but whoever is crying for Moulson back, THIS DOES NOT CHANGE THE SEASON. Nabby and Vis changed the season by getting hurt. Snow not getting a goalie changed the season.

The Vanek trades are different discussions but just because a guy scores 30 goals playing with John Tavares does not make him good by any means.

Bailey might be having a bad year but he's not bringing the team down, look at our joke of a goalie playing.
sucks is a strong word Moulson was a good player on the team and also a good teammate. He works hard in the offseason and to me he could have stayed. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. Forget about the number of goals scored,assists and comparisons sometimes you cannot compare the intangibles. To me he fit well on that first line. It would have been interested how this team panned out with vanek and moulson on the same roster...

As far as talking about players wanting to stay on this team/organization? PMB and DP? One was a cap fill-in (try out contract if ask me) and DP leave the guy alone...he was screwed up after knee/ hip surgeries. I'm sure both wanted to stay but you cannot put DP in this discussion when the guy had to be bought out due to all the injuries he had. But when you try to obtain a player Kirk muller,smyth,erhoff,vanek...they stay away from the islanders why because our owner/GM doesn't incorporate a winning culture. Big mistake when they got rid of Neil Smith and Ted Nolan (that's another story). Vanek said it in a polite way I would have signed here but you don't add more talent to this team. Things would have been different oh well.

Can't agree with you more about D and goaltending acquisitions.

And josh bailey wasn't worth 3.3 million a year...

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Old
03-20-2014, 07:15 PM
  #87
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And that vanek quote is not word by word but this is the quote:

Islanders: Vanek said if team was in "top echelon" he might stay. "I can tell you that winning does make a big difference."

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Old
03-20-2014, 07:21 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
in that article there is nothing but praise for Moulson, in Tavares's regular interviews it sounds like he is vague and is saying what everyone wants to hear, however in that article if you do not get that Tavares will pretty much be devastated if Moulson is gone I do not know what to say
Bro, what does that mean? Tavares praises Snow and Wang every chance he gets. Do you take him at his word with those comments, or do you figure he is just towing the company line? What makes you think he'd bash his friend in public? I am sure he liked Moulson and liked playing with him. Moulson was not the cancer that some are portraying him to be, but he was definitely holding Tavares back. We saw that in about half a season of play with Vanek (although it is difficult to disentangle Okposo's development with the impact of Vanek).

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Old
03-20-2014, 08:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
First of all the Islanders were a worse team with Vanek then they were with Moulson, so I do not care about that month stretch where they were clicking

Second of all, you are missing the point and that is the trade for Vanek was stupid because the Isles chances of signing Vanek were slim to nill, what GM will throw away a guy who wants to be here for a guy who probably does not want to be here, and that GM will also throw in a 1st and a 2nd rounder?
There you go again thinking the only difference between last years team and this years team was Vanek. How thick do you have to be to not have what others are telling you sink in. Wake up please if you want to continue the discussion...

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03-20-2014, 09:31 PM
  #90
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To answer the question on why Snow was quick to get rid of Moulson--Wang doesn't pay anyone what they are worth, if they have other options. We have the lowest paid coach, the lowest paid GM, the lowest paid scouts, the lowest paid players. We are unlikely to ever keep a top six forward past free agency age unless the player meets a long island girl and gets married, and she wont leave long island, or, if we draft a top 20 forward, we will then offer a great contract like Vanek, but anyone who is not a top 20 or 30 forward, we are not going to offer a going rate contract. So anyone not a all star wont be signed...unles....they have doubts they will get a contract as a free agent that's significantly more.

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Old
03-20-2014, 09:37 PM
  #91
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Can we please stop pretending that Matt Moulson is Jagr 1992

I liked the guy but in reality he is the equivalent of Mark Parrish.

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03-20-2014, 09:43 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by frankieboy View Post
Moulson was not the cancer that some are portraying him to be, but he was definitely holding Tavares back. We saw that in about half a season of play with Vanek (although it is difficult to disentangle Okposo's development with the impact of Vanek).
in their last years on the Isles( not counting the 11 games Moulson was on the team this year) both played 47 games and both had 44 points

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03-20-2014, 10:27 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
in their last years on the Isles( not counting the 11 games Moulson was on the team this year) both played 47 games and both had 44 points
Or you could say that in Vanek's first, disjointed, year on LI he produced 44 points in 47 games and Moulson produced 48 points in 82 games his first season.

Stop harping on that number because it's ridiculous to compare a player who played with the same player(s), in the same system for four years to a guy who was brought in mid-season and later knew he was going to be traded to a different team, mid-season.

It's not hard to grasp. Vanek > Moulson.

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Old
03-20-2014, 10:53 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by YearlyLottery View Post
Bailey might be having a bad year but he's not bringing the team down, look at our joke of a goalie playing.
I think Bailey's severe lack of scoring has been a huge detriment to this team. Think about how much better this team would have been if they potted some more goals at the beginning of the season.

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03-21-2014, 12:53 AM
  #95
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I think Bailey's severe lack of scoring has been a huge detriment to this team. Think about how much better this team would have been if they potted some more goals at the beginning of the season.
We're in the middle of the pack in terms of goals scored this season with current playoff teams below us/slightly above us, while we're dead last in goals against, scoring wasn't our issue this season. We're 17 points out of a playoff spot and have lost at least 12 games in which we had a 2 goal lead. Holding leads and our defensive play is the reason we aren't in the playoffs.

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03-21-2014, 04:50 AM
  #96
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Not sure if it was mentioned but the price Buffalo received for Vanek was enhanced due to the fact that a large chunk of his salary was retained.

There a number of comments regarding deadline day and the value received for Vanek versus Buffalo's return on Moulson. Buffalo certainly received an additional 2nd in large part due to Torrey Mitchell's inclusion in the trade. He will make 2.5mil next year and is on a 10pt pace. Someone could make the argument that (I won't) that Colberg is the equivalent of a very late first and this was as close to a first and second as Snow would get without taking salary back. When Toronto was queried after a day of inactivity they claimed that they were in on Vanek but NYI would not take back salary. Anaheim's trade of Penner the previous day seemed to indicate something was coming. I can't fathom how a trade was not made there and if they are regretting it?

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03-21-2014, 07:19 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by iLandHer View Post
Or you could say that in Vanek's first, disjointed, year on LI he produced 44 points in 47 games and Moulson produced 48 points in 82 games his first season.

Stop harping on that number because it's ridiculous to compare a player who played with the same player(s), in the same system for four years to a guy who was brought in mid-season and later knew he was going to be traded to a different team, mid-season.

It's not hard to grasp. Vanek > Moulson.
Going back 4 years to make a comparison? Laughable!

Bottom line is Moulson and Vanek are very similar players production wise. Defensively both are nothing to write home about. Both like to stay down low and clean up garbage, although I think Moulson gets more greasy goals than Vanek does and Vanek has a better shot that Moulson does. Vanek is bigger than and a better passer and is more to make the highlight reel. Vanek takes off more shifts than Moulson does. At the end of the da, they very similar players player but Vanek is more flashy while Moulson more understated.

The trade in itself crippled this team. Wrong move at the wrong time. Removing Moulson from the locker room had a profound effect on team chemistry and how they functioned as a group. By the time Vanek finally meshed in, it was too late. You have to remember that like it or not, Moulson was a huge, I cannot state that loudly enough, huge part of the team. Removing him from this equation took considerable time to get over it.

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03-21-2014, 07:33 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by crashthenet View Post
Not sure if it was mentioned but the price Buffalo received for Vanek was enhanced due to the fact that a large chunk of his salary was retained.

There a number of comments regarding deadline day and the value received for Vanek versus Buffalo's return on Moulson. Buffalo certainly received an additional 2nd in large part due to Torrey Mitchell's inclusion in the trade. He will make 2.5mil next year and is on a 10pt pace. Someone could make the argument that (I won't) that Colberg is the equivalent of a very late first and this was as close to a first and second as Snow would get without taking salary back. When Toronto was queried after a day of inactivity they claimed that they were in on Vanek but NYI would not take back salary. Anaheim's trade of Penner the previous day seemed to indicate something was coming. I can't fathom how a trade was not made there and if they are regretting it?
The first bolded needs to be repeated like a mantra around here for some to get it. MONEY is why this team gave up so much for Vanek and got so little in return for him.

As far as them regretting the non-trades, Snow should if he has even a shred of professional integrity, but Wanger definitely isn't losing any sleep over it. Again, MONEY.

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Old
03-21-2014, 07:41 AM
  #99
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in their last years on the Isles( not counting the 11 games Moulson was on the team this year) both played 47 games and both had 44 points
Are you pointing that out to say that Moulson is AS GOOD as Vanek? You are losing me there, because I watched both players play, too. Moulson is a good player; Vanek is a better player. Go hit the main list and ask unbiased people the same question. You are not going to like what you hear if you believe Moulson = Vanek. Now, if you are pissed that we gave up assets when "scoring forward" was not our main need, and you are also pissed about how much we gave me, well, I'm on-board with your argument.

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Old
03-21-2014, 08:18 AM
  #100
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Why not sign mm at $6million/year? Here's my argument for:

-we have to spend to reach the cap
-mm made 3.9 this year. An increase of roughly 2million
-re-signing mm to 6 increases our hit by less than 3million
-with the cap going up significantly next yeR that increase won't be a lot proportionally
-we need a 1st line winger to play with jt. Mm has proven he can be that player
-we're not going to spend anywhere near to the cap anytime soon.

Here's my biggest question to those saying no:

What's the point in having tons of cap space if it's never used?!

Ps:we heard the "we need it to re-sign the youngsters" since 05/06 and guess what? We haven't had any issue doing that.

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