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Shoalts on Expansion: At least 3 years away; Imbalance favors Seattle, Vegas

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03-19-2014, 07:50 AM
  #1
Mightygoose
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Shoalts on Expansion: At least 3 years away; Imbalance favors Seattle, Vegas

Late yesterday's post from Mr. Shoalts from G & M

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle17560340/

Conference inbalance is a priority. Seattle and Las Vegas appaers to be 2 highest on the wish list. Mentions 2 potential groups for Las Vegas

Quote:
There are also two groups competing to land an NHL expansion franchise for Las Vegas, and both are well-heeled: The Maloof family (former owners of the NBA’s Sacramento Kings), and a group led by television/movie producer Jerry Bruckheimer, former MGM chairman Harry Sloan and David Bonderman, co-founder of TPG Capital LLP.
Quebec seems to be # 3 on the priority list but with a long time frame, their chances are all not lost. PKP's political move has nothing to do with anything and is playing his cards right.

Markham/GTA 2 - Not in the conversation.

It's more than 2 weeks


Last edited by Mightygoose: 03-19-2014 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Article was from March 18
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03-19-2014, 07:53 AM
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A priority for Bettman is eliminating the imbalance between the Eastern Conference, which has 16 teams, and the Western Conference, which has 14.
Hasn't Bettman stated precisely the opposite?

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03-19-2014, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
I think there is a mix of media fantasy, league misinformation / distractions, private positionings and actual expansion considerations.

Quebec isn't talking much, but they are building an arena and the rumoured owners gave the NHL a huge truck of cash for a tv deal. I consider them an actual possibility

Hartford and Hamilton seem to fall into the positioning category. Whether its the local government shilling for a team or having clauses written into arena naming rights, reinforces my belief that expansion is coming and suitors are lining up.

Las Vegas seems to fall into distraction, maybe to drive up expansion fees or simply to get people discussing the merits of Vegas hosting a major franchise.

Seattle is the confusing one, they are obviously the centre of expansion theories but also have someone desperate to build an arena, many of the leaks are related to the proposed arena and personally, I feel Hansen is planting the leaks to take advantage of a misunderstanding about Portland.

Portland appears to have been the landing spot for relocation, whether it was the Sabres a decade ago or the Coyotes last summer, but as the owner has Seattle ties, it created confusion.

So I guess I agree it is mostly hype, but not media driven exclusively.

(for the record I live in the Seattle area and want a team)
The rumoured owners didn't give the NHL anything for a TV deal. They gave Rogers money for a portion of the TV rights Rogers obtained from the NHL.

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03-19-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
Hasn't Bettman stated precisely the opposite?
Yes.

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03-19-2014, 08:49 AM
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A hype that could end up burning badly those who keep it growing.

Lets not forget that in 2014, with social media and the impact it can have...it's dangerous to blabla about something you don't want to do right now. You'll end up paying a steep price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
The rumoured owners didn't give the NHL anything for a TV deal. They gave Rogers money for a portion of the TV rights Rogers obtained from the NHL.
In reality that is true. Contract wise, its goes further down the road. TVA Sports (owner : Quebecor) is the OFFICIAL broadcaster of NHL in Canada for French-language.

Just like RDS was/is while BELL Media had the contract.

Basically Rodgers paid for both English and French broadcasting rights and resold French to TVA, but that could not have been done without league's consent.


Last edited by powerstuck: 03-19-2014 at 08:58 AM.
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03-19-2014, 09:06 AM
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I doubt that it's just media hype, but I could very easily believe that the notion that it's impending or a top priority for the league has been overstated in the media and on social networks. At the very least, the league's realignment and their seeming willingness to actually talk about the subject beyond immediate denials suggests that it's at the very least in the back of their minds, in no small part to Quebec City, Seattle, and Portland having been apparently interested in the Coyotes, I'm sure.

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03-19-2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Robot View Post
Im sure there was some discussion and plans for expansion in the same way schools have plans for what happens during an earthquake. It's probably sitting in a manilla envelope in a filing cabinet in Bettman's office somewhere collecting dust. I do think though that expansion will happen but in a very structured way 5-6 years down the line with clear transparency as opposed to what happened when Atlanta moved and we just all woke up one morning and the Thrashers were gone. We will hear rumors about Bettmann and the league talking to business man X. They will talk to the city then the board of governers, then there will be a vote, then we will say "alright guys in x years when stadium Y gets built, city Z will have a team."
I'd argue for the exact opposite in terms of transparency.

The league does not like internal affairs to get out. They'll do the back room dealings (the last thing the NHL wants to do is run it like the olympics with open expansion bids, leaving all but one or two cities disappointed), and one day, they'll come out and say "a team has been approved for X city to start in 2-4 years". The new team's creation will be conditional upon a proper venue being built and such.

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03-19-2014, 09:38 AM
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Expansion isn't a "short term" thing in this day and age, it requires a lot of strategy and preparation.

I would imagine that it's being talked about and is on the front burner, but is not imminent in the short term.

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03-19-2014, 10:18 AM
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Shoalts is Bettman's mouth to threaten Quebecor, he wants the best price possible. THAT IS if its not already done deal.

IMHO, nobody seriously thinks about Las Vegas and Seattle still have hurdles in front of them.

Late june, commish is in Quebec city, at least I hope.


Last edited by QcBlizzard: 03-19-2014 at 10:28 AM.
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03-19-2014, 10:30 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
Hasn't Bettman stated precisely the opposite?
Daly or Bettman said something like "our geography is what it is" if I do recall.

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03-19-2014, 10:41 AM
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There are also two groups competing to land an NHL expansion franchise for Las Vegas, and both are well-heeled: The Maloof family (former owners of the NBA’s Sacramento Kings), and a group led by television/movie producer Jerry Bruckheimer, former MGM chairman Harry Sloan and David Bonderman, co-founder of TPG Capital LLP.

This makes Vegas seem like its completely fabricated. The Maloofs, who have a sordid history as NBA owners and the fabled saviour of the Thrashers.

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03-19-2014, 11:09 AM
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Is NHL expansion just media hype?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...155937497.html
Puck Daddy: NHL expansion just a media driven distraction?

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03-19-2014, 11:37 AM
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Ouch!

http://sportspressnw.com/2181588/201...one-for-hockey

How can we make both text work together?

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03-19-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
Ya, and if Art Thiel there has the right end of the stick on this, would explain further why Hansens delaying the submission of the requisite inf required to complete the EIS to the late summer. Some serious lobbying required if indeed there is no interest nor appetite to change the MOU to NHL 1st.

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03-19-2014, 12:04 PM
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There are two groups competing to build an arena in Las Vegas: MGM Resorts International and AEG (owner of the Los Angeles Kings) are proposing to do it with $350-million (U.S.) in private money, while The Cordish Companies want to partner with the city and use public money to build a $390-million playpen.

You'd have to think the NHL would favor the AEG venture.


Quote:
There are also two groups competing to land an NHL expansion franchise for Las Vegas, and both are well-heeled: The Maloof family (former owners of the NBA’s Sacramento Kings), and a group led by television/movie producer Jerry Bruckheimer, former MGM chairman Harry Sloan and David Bonderman, co-founder of TPG Capital LLP.
Bruckheimer’s group poked around an NHL team for Las Vegas several years ago, but backed off when the TV producer thought the league was asking for too much money and no new arena was in sight.
After the NBA fiasco (and there are crossover owners), would the BOG really want to depend on the Maloofs? Bruckheimer's name has always come up, but I'm not convinced an asking pricing of $270 MM is viable for Vegas. Bruckheimer was wise to back off the first time. He's not getting any younger either, 71 right now. In three years, 74.

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03-19-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, and if Art Thiel there has the right end of the stick on this, would explain further why Hansens delaying the submission of the requisite inf required to complete the EIS to the late summer. Some serious lobbying required if indeed there is no interest nor appetite to change the MOU to NHL 1st.
Burgress made the same comment during the Coyotes situation. He is one VOICE of 9 on the council. And the headline of the art article is misleading as hell.

Hansen has said he is open to modifying it if the NHL group picks up some of the risk and well my guess that agreement with NHL group and hansen hasn't happened yet.

They won't change it unless there is the NHL group involved in funding the arena with less city risk.

Art Thiel is anti seattle arena and has been writing like that for quite some time.

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03-19-2014, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
Ouch!

http://sportspressnw.com/2181588/201...one-for-hockey

How can we make both text work together?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, and if Art Thiel there has the right end of the stick on this, would explain further why Hansens delaying the submission of the requisite inf required to complete the EIS to the late summer. Some serious lobbying required if indeed there is no interest nor appetite to change the MOU to NHL 1st.

My guess is that they want more of the actual cost shared, if this is the case. It makes sense for them to have a new arena. If the NHL has some super-rich billionaire involved, the thinking might be justifiable.

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03-19-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
My guess is that they want more of the actual cost shared, if this is the case. It makes sense for them to have a new arena. If the NHL has some super-rich billionaire involved, the thinking might be justifiable.
That is a good guess, and if I were them, I'd do exactly the same.

That said, we can't say confidence reigns.

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03-19-2014, 12:14 PM
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Yeah, I think Seattle has a team within the next 2-3 years. Quebec City should as well but right now I think Las Vegas or Houston would get a team first.

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03-19-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
My guess is that they want more of the actual cost shared, if this is the case. It makes sense for them to have a new arena. If the NHL has some super-rich billionaire involved, the thinking might be justifiable.
I always thought in regards to Seattle and NHL first, its a no go until there is a proposal that reduces city of seattle's risk. Its also a no go if its just Hansen seattle and king county involved.

The NHL group has to be involved in funding and has to pick up significant amount for the arena to happen and it makes sense.

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03-19-2014, 12:16 PM
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Bruckheimer was wise to back off the first time. He's not getting any younger either, 71 right now. In three years, 74.
Ya. I think that boat mightve sailed back in 2007 or so. In 06 he was rumored to be part of a consortium who wanted to buy the Penguins, actually made an offer. He grew up in & is a native of Detroit, Red Wings fan, loves his hockey, attended the Stadium Game in LA recently, is good friends with former AEG CEO Lieweke etc, but Id think its a long shot he'd be seriously looking at owning in Vegas at this stage in his life.

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03-19-2014, 12:19 PM
  #22
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Yeah, I think Seattle has a team within the next 2-3 years. Quebec City should as well but right now I think Las Vegas or Houston would get a team first.

I still have no idea why they're so keen on Vegas. The city couldn't be more unlike Seattle, which if you look at NHL fan demographics in general (highly educated, affluent, tech savvy) seem to make Seattle the perfect partner. Vegas evokes the image of Leisure Suit Larry's and Lounge Lizards, chasing after young women who's only asset is their body; and retirees sitting at One-armed Bandit machines. Then a whole mess of tourists.

Like what the hell? It's akin to a split personality disorder, or one of those Sci Fi parallel universe stories.

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03-19-2014, 12:23 PM
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Vegas seems like a bluff more than speculation. Also, you would have two teams in the PST you would think to keep the Time zone balance you would put Seattle in and then Houston or KC.

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03-19-2014, 12:26 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You'd have to think the NHL would favor the AEG venture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya. I think that boat mightve sailed back in 2007 or so. In 06 he was rumored to be part of a consortium who wanted to buy the Penguins, actually made an offer. He grew up in & is a native of Detroit, Red Wings fan, loves his hockey, attended the Stadium Game in LA recently, is good friends with former AEG CEO Lieweke etc, but Id think its a long shot he'd be seriously looking at owning in Vegas at this stage in his life.
Agreed, It's strange to think he would have been hanging in the weeds all this time. The name that jumps at me more is Harry Sloan as far as that group goes. If he still has good ties with MGM, I think his group can get a favourable lease at the MGM arena.

I see the Maloofs tied more to the Cordish proposal. Public $$$ tied to that one and perhaps I'm just linking their later days in Sacramento incorrectly. But I just don't see them having the resources to owna team without city help.

If Vegas happens, I would hedge my bet on the MGM/Bruckheimer/Sloan party.

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03-19-2014, 12:35 PM
  #25
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Seattle is an oversaturated Sports market and no one will put an major pro sports franchise in the home of gambling. Quebec City and if the league can get it right, I say Houston takes the other expansion team to help the Dallas Stars, which is probably at least 5 years away.

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