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Old
05-01-2014, 01:03 PM
  #151
Jtown
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
This is just flat out wrong. Johansen hadn't shown anything in the NHL in terms of offense before this year. He was actually used in a similar role to Couturier and produce even less offense in those minutes. This year he got to play with some better forwards in a more offensive role, and what do you know, he produced. Couturier stands just as good a chance to breakout like that if given the opportunity.
no he doesn't. Johansen had elite puck handling skills and speed. That along with his size is one of the reasons why he has so much potential. Coots is so slow and can't even get his shot off .

It doesn't matter if johansens production didn't show up on the statsheet. He had the tools that you could see that would develop into what he is right now. Coots does not possess that right now. He might get it but i'm confident in saying he will never score 30 goals in a season.

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05-01-2014, 01:04 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I like Couturier a lot, but he just doesn't have Johansen's goal scoring ability.
He has a good shot that's definitely worthy of 20/25 goals but he just struggles to create the separation to get it off enough because he doesn't possess the skating nor speed like Johansen does.

Couturier needs to get stronger & develop a power game if he wants to be successful offensively at this level.

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05-01-2014, 01:14 PM
  #153
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no he doesn't. Johansen had elite puck handling skills and speed. That along with his size is one of the reasons why he has so much potential. Coots is so slow and can't even get his shot off .

It doesn't matter if johansens production didn't show up on the statsheet. He had the tools that you could see that would develop into what he is right now. Coots does not possess that right now. He might get it but i'm confident in saying he will never score 30 goals in a season.
You can make all the bold claims you want about Couturier, but it doesn't mean you're right. Johansen accomplished **** all in this league, outside of being a defensive center, before this season. You were probably the same guys calling Johansen a bust about this time last year.

In terms of skill sets, Johansen isn't a burner. He's a good skater for his size, but he's not overly fast. You're throwing the term elite around, yet he doesn't do anything at an elite level. He is what he is right now, a young player that had a good to great breakout season. Couturier is a fine skater. He's got a long stride, so he looks slow on TV, but his speed is fine for the NHL. Couturier also has the higher hockey IQ level between the two. For all the crap Couturier gets, nobody is willing to just admit that he has one of the highest hockey IQ's of any young player in the game. Line up Couturier on the first line next year with two of the best wingers on the team and in an offensive role, I can promise you that he would have a similar season of ~60 points.

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05-01-2014, 01:29 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
You can make all the bold claims you want about Couturier, but it doesn't mean you're right. Johansen accomplished **** all in this league, outside of being a defensive center, before this season. You were probably the same guys calling Johansen a bust about this time last year.

In terms of skill sets, Johansen isn't a burner. He's a good skater for his size, but he's not overly fast. You're throwing the term elite around, yet he doesn't do anything at an elite level. He is what he is right now, a young player that had a good to great breakout season. Couturier is a fine skater. He's got a long stride, so he looks slow on TV, but his speed is fine for the NHL. Couturier also has the higher hockey IQ level between the two. For all the crap Couturier gets, nobody is willing to just admit that he has one of the highest hockey IQ's of any young player in the game. Line up Couturier on the first line next year with two of the best wingers on the team and in an offensive role, I can promise you that he would have a similar season of ~60 points.
There are many people on this board who think Couts has a very high hockey IQ. It has been said over and over when discussing his game. The only negative I have read about Couts is his speed. He seems to have the tools to be a great player in this league.

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05-01-2014, 01:53 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
You can make all the bold claims you want about Couturier, but it doesn't mean you're right. Johansen accomplished **** all in this league, outside of being a defensive center, before this season. You were probably the same guys calling Johansen a bust about this time last year.

In terms of skill sets, Johansen isn't a burner. He's a good skater for his size, but he's not overly fast. You're throwing the term elite around, yet he doesn't do anything at an elite level. He is what he is right now, a young player that had a good to great breakout season. Couturier is a fine skater. He's got a long stride, so he looks slow on TV, but his speed is fine for the NHL. Couturier also has the higher hockey IQ level between the two. For all the crap Couturier gets, nobody is willing to just admit that he has one of the highest hockey IQ's of any young player in the game. Line up Couturier on the first line next year with two of the best wingers on the team and in an offensive role, I can promise you that he would have a similar season of ~60 points.

Your comparison of Johansen is off. Im just going to leave it at that. It's a convenient comparison to make but the two players are very diffrent. Coots really struggles to get his shot off and is rarely able to beat a man 1 on 1. Those are important thing in becoming a good offensive player. I am fine with the player he is already, he is still a great and valuable player . The only way his offense increases is if he gets to play with a dominant puck possession winger like voracek, who can create space and time for coots to get his shot off.

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05-01-2014, 02:00 PM
  #156
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Foot speed tells all with Coots and Schenn. They take passes and barely get to center and their checked. Watch the good teams that can win it all and tell me where they would fit.

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05-01-2014, 02:18 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Your comparison of Johansen is off. Im just going to leave it at that. It's a convenient comparison to make but the two players are very diffrent. Coots really struggles to get his shot off and is rarely able to beat a man 1 on 1. Those are important thing in becoming a good offensive player. I am fine with the player he is already, he is still a great and valuable player . The only way his offense increases is if he gets to play with a dominant puck possession winger like voracek, who can create space and time for coots to get his shot off.
I never made the comparison between the two, nor did the poster who originally brought up Johansen. We both said Couturier is in a similar circumstance to Johansen last year, and that if Couturier were given the opportunities that Johansen has been given this year, he would break out offensively.

There are very few players in the game today that can beat a defenseman 1 on 1 off the rush. The defensemen are too good at standing guys up today. You act like Couturier's the only one that's not doing it. Sure, playing with a puck possession player like Voracek would help, but Johansen is getting similar help this year from his linemates. You think he didn't benefit from having Foligno and Jenner blowing everything up all year on the forecheck?

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05-01-2014, 02:22 PM
  #158
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Couturier's main focus should be adding 5 to 10 lbs and then working on his foot speed.

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05-01-2014, 02:44 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by hatcher View Post
Foot speed tells all with Coots and Schenn. They take passes and barely get to center and their checked. Watch the good teams that can win it all and tell me where they would fit.
I think a lot of this has to do with the team's inability to build speed through the neutral zone against tight checking, defensive teams. The only players that hit the opposing blue line with speed are Giroux and Voracek, and I think that has more to do with them being great puck handlers more so than their actual foot speed.

Couts also has an incredibly awkward skating style that I think makes him look slower than he actually is. I don't think Schenn is particularly slow either.

And count me in on wanting to see Hartnell on their wing.

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05-01-2014, 02:45 PM
  #160
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Couturier looked great offensively the 6 weeks are so Downie was healthy. Akeson or maybe Cousins down the road has that kind of playmaking ability that can feed Couturier the puck near the crease. Because im not really confident Downie will stay healthy if he is resigned.

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05-01-2014, 02:50 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by hatcher View Post
Foot speed tells all with Coots and Schenn. They take passes and barely get to center and their checked. Watch the good teams that can win it all and tell me where they would fit.
great observation . start posting more. Both need wingers who can enter the zone.

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05-07-2014, 08:45 AM
  #162
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Can someone explain something to me?

How are these guys considered locks to be future top six players:
Huberdeau - .40 PPG
Strome - .49 PPG
Scheifele - .53 PPG
Zibanejad - .48 PPG

But this guy isn't:
Couturier - .48 PPG

It's even more ridiculous when you look at the difficulty of his minutes.

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05-07-2014, 08:58 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Can someone explain something to me?

How are these guys considered locks to be future top six players:
Huberdeau - .40 PPG
Strome - .49 PPG
Scheifele - .53 PPG
Zibanejad - .48 PPG

But this guy isn't:
Couturier - .48 PPG

It's even more ridiculous when you look at the difficulty of his minutes.
Couturier is probably accumulating secondary assists, goals in blowouts, playing in those games where points only count 1/4 that Giroux plays in, any of the HF groupthink

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05-07-2014, 05:06 PM
  #164
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Maybe it's time for me to face it.. Couturier is nothing more than a 3rd liner, if even that.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1664835

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05-07-2014, 05:18 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Akanon View Post
Maybe it's time for me to face it.. Couturier is nothing more than a 3rd liner, if even that.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1664835
I like the guy saying that GA is flat out superior to GA/minute because you should be changing every time you clear the puck.

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05-07-2014, 05:36 PM
  #166
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Posted by Appleyard in this thread...
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1664835

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
1st in the NHL amongst forward for SH TOI. (7th amongst all players inc D.)

7th hardest QoC amongst PKers. (with over 2mins per night.)

1 of only 10 PKers with a + Corsi Rel. (with over 2 mins per night.) Almost a minute more a night than any of them.

2nd in the NHL for PK Corsi On. (with over 2 mins per night, After Grabner, who played 1.30 less a night on the PK)

5th best GF On/60 in the NHL on the PK. (over 2 mins per night.)

10th best GA On/60 in the NHL on the PK. (over 2 mins per night.)

4th best +/-On/60 in the NHL on the PK. (over 2 mins per night.)

Joint 4th in the NHL in SH points.

Joint 1st in the NHL in GF On while on the PK.

He was top 10 in almost every measurable PK statistic. Very few PKers in the NHL manage to be top 10 in 2 of those categories.

And as for Flyers fans 'talking him up'... ask most Flyers fans about Brayden Schenn, who had more points this year.

Couturier is going to likely be ~6-8th in Selke voting this year... when was the last time a player in their 20-21 season or younger was top 10 in Selke votes? It does not happen often, he is elite defensively already. He was arguably the Flyers best defensive forward the moment he walked through the door for his first training camp.

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05-07-2014, 06:04 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Posted by Appleyard in this thread...
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1664835
Very nice. There is no question couts will be a massive part of us winning a cup. It sucks that he was hurt this past series as he didn't have a opponent he really needed to key in on and could have shown us some offense

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05-07-2014, 06:29 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Funf View Post
I like the guy saying that GA is flat out superior to GA/minute because you should be changing every time you clear the puck.
Lol I know right? I guess if I step on the ice then dump the puck and get off I'm an elite penalty killer rofl

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05-11-2014, 04:16 PM
  #169
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For those who suffered through the Zibanejad polls, Z was courteous enough to prove all of us right in a big way.

33 points, -15. With much easier usage, more PP time, etc.

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05-11-2014, 04:18 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
For those who suffered through the Zibanejad polls, Z was courteous enough to prove all of us right in a big way.

33 points, -15. With much easier usage, more PP time, etc.
Which is exactly why we won't see another one of those polls until the exact second he starts out producing Couturier.

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05-11-2014, 04:24 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
For those who suffered through the Zibanejad polls, Z was courteous enough to prove all of us right in a big way.

33 points, -15. With much easier usage, more PP time, etc.
Just took a quick look back at the first poll. After the Flyers horrid start Couturier was just a 3rd line center on a terrible team. What does that make Zibanejad on his lottery team?

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05-11-2014, 04:33 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
For those who suffered through the Zibanejad polls, Z was courteous enough to prove all of us right in a big way.

33 points, -15. With much easier usage, more PP time, etc.
Speaking of which, am I allowed to start that poll yet? I got infracted last time I tried and was told to wait until the season was finished...

I really just want to hear back from the two or three trolls who took over that thread last time to see where they're at today.

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05-11-2014, 06:26 PM
  #173
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What were the polls asking? Looking at the point production, Couturier and Zibanejad were pretty close this year (Zibanejad with a slightly higher PPG), and this is with Couturier getting a lot more ice time (more than a third more). That +/- does look terrible for Zibanejad, though. So I think Couturier is definitely better defensively at this point and most likely better overall, as well. But I haven't seen Zibanejad much.

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05-11-2014, 09:35 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
Couturier looked great offensively the 6 weeks are so Downie was healthy. Akeson or maybe Cousins down the road has that kind of playmaking ability that can feed Couturier the puck near the crease. Because im not really confident Downie will stay healthy if he is resigned.
Downie was good at getting the puck to Couturier and every one else he was on the ice with. There is just no way the Flyers will re-sign him for the money he will get on the market. With that being said, Couturiers offensive numbers will come with time. I said it before the season that he won't put up huge numbers because of his competition but he is a huge part to this team. His offensive game will come around in a few seasons.

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05-11-2014, 09:54 PM
  #175
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Just Sens fans crying over picking Zibanejad instead of Couturier, same thing for Jets fans and Scheifele but it looks like Scheifele is playing really good so we won't hear from them for a while, next are the Isles and Strome.

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