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Canadian Politics Part VIII: The Nifty Extended Thread Title Edition

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Old
06-17-2014, 11:20 AM
  #576
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I'm not against progress and being totally anti-pipeline would seem Luddite and like someone being against railroads in the 19th century. But if I had been around and kicking in the 19th century, I'm pretty sure I would not have been pleased with the politics and corruption surrounding railroads either. In the same vein, I'm pretty much turned off by oil politics, the gutting of environmental standards by the current government and the ramming speed of development. I think government should be an honest broker and objective regulator and this government isn't. I will chuckle if anyone ever gets to poke a stick inside the wheels of a very powerful industry and lobby and this government's biased plans but my expectations are low.

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06-17-2014, 12:22 PM
  #577
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There's no option or person I like in this whole issue. The aboriginals and environmentalists are crazy idiots who don't have any solid ground to stand on. B.C. and the people are incredibly short-sighted. Harper is basically just a shill for the oil companies - unless it might cost him an election so he'll probably just delay it.

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06-17-2014, 05:02 PM
  #578
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I don't have that many problems with oil (I actually believe that a nationalized fossil fuel industry is key to any stable economy) but that sandy oil is impossible to clean up.

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06-17-2014, 05:39 PM
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubby Tuke View Post
There's no option or person I like in this whole issue. The aboriginals and environmentalists are crazy idiots who don't have any solid ground to stand on. B.C. and the people are incredibly short-sighted. Harper is basically just a shill for the oil companies - unless it might cost him an election so he'll probably just delay it.
Pretty much my thoughts on it as well.

Curious to see how Christy responds to this. Her "five demands" have yet to be met apparently. Although I thought her and Redford at ironed them out?

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Originally Posted by The Moose View Post
I am pro pipeline, as long as environmental concerns are addressed, sufficient contingency funds are set aside in case of a spill, and they fairly negotiate with First Nations. Oil will be moved and and I don't see how rail is safer than pipeline. It is not, and in case of a rejection, companies will make plans for even more oil to be transported by rail. To me the arguments against the pipeline are more emotional than rational, considering that there are already pipelines running to the west coast.

Plus, approval has the added bonus that will piss off BCers and they won't vote CPC in 2015 .
The ones that are against the pipeline already don't vote for Harper. They should be more worried about Justin's dreamy looks swaying voters.

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06-17-2014, 05:58 PM
  #580
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Northern Gateway pipeline approved with 209 conditions

Quote:
The federal government has agreed to let Enbridge build its Northern Gateway pipeline, subject to 209 conditions recommended by the National Energy Board and further talks with aboriginal communities.

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair called it "folly" and "pure madness" to think anyone can put supertankers in British Columbia's Douglas Channel.

Both Mulcair and Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau said they would reverse the decision to accept the National Energy Board's pipeline approval.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nort...ions-1.2678285

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06-17-2014, 06:03 PM
  #581
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What I don't understand is that Aboriginal groups on the land that the pipeline would go through are completely opposed to it. So shouldn't that be the end of it? I mean, really. If you don't want something on your land, do you not have the right to say no?

Oil politics. I don't care for it.

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06-17-2014, 06:03 PM
  #582
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So he delayed it... "Build the pipeline..... but do this stuff that's going to take years and years to the point where I won't be around anymore".

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06-17-2014, 06:15 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubby Tuke View Post
So he delayed it... "Build the pipeline..... but do this stuff that's going to take years and years to the point where I won't be around anymore".
Looks like it.

Hopefully that will allow for more scrutiny.

Not sure I like Trudeau and Mulclair coming out straight against it, though I understand it probably has a lot to do with politics.

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06-17-2014, 06:18 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
Pretty much my thoughts on it as well.

Curious to see how Christy responds to this. Her "five demands" have yet to be met apparently. Although I thought her and Redford at ironed them out?
The Government of Alberta is not the one building the pipeline. Christy should take her fight to Enbridge and the private companies that are shipping the oil. Asking for royalty share from GoA as she did was really laughable. There is really nothing to be "ironed out" between the two provincial governments, except rhetoric.

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06-17-2014, 06:20 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubby Tuke View Post
So he delayed it... "Build the pipeline..... but do this stuff that's going to take years and years to the point where I won't be around anymore".
I don't think it will take years and years to meet the conditions. However it might take quite long to bring First Nations on board, and they really can cause a lot of trouble.

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06-17-2014, 06:27 PM
  #586
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I don't think it will take years and years to meet the conditions. However it might take quite long to bring First Nations on board, and they really can cause a lot of trouble.
If they never get them on board, and if Enbridge starts to build it, it might get ugly.

I live in Northern BC and one of the First Nations invited a few BC Government officials and oil company members to their land to talk LNG. The First Nations kicked them all out of the meeting and told them that their land is not available for resource extraction.

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06-17-2014, 06:31 PM
  #587
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If I were a betting man (and I wouldn't bet against the oil industry), I'd say Enbridge starts construction on the Alberta parts of the pipeline before the end of this calendar year and the BC half is held up in court until my grandchildren are collecting their old age pensions.

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06-17-2014, 06:38 PM
  #588
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There's a lot of litigation ahead, and if the project gets out of all that, there's gonna be a lot of civil disobedience afterwards. This thing is gonna be in the news forever.

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06-17-2014, 06:43 PM
  #589
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Just my first impressions (maybe I should wait).

1) Harper might not suffer as much as we think in BC if the Liberals, NDP, Green all split the No vote.

2) Just my impression that Mulcair's No was more emotional and definitive than Trudeau's No. This thing won't be built for a long time anyway, but I think an NDP govt. might stall more in the future, Liberals would go along carefully if the BC govt. finally goes along.

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06-17-2014, 07:02 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Free Torts View Post
If I were a betting man (and I wouldn't bet against the oil industry), I'd say Enbridge starts construction on the Alberta parts of the pipeline before the end of this calendar year and the BC half is held up in court until my grandchildren are collecting their old age pensions.
Your grandchildren won't have old age pensions, quit being silly.

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06-17-2014, 07:07 PM
  #591
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lawy...-win-1.2676983



Quote:
On Monday in question period in the House of Commons, MacKay seemingly made a curious slip of the tongue, when he said Mainville's been "a member of the Quebec bar, Mr. Speaker, for 33 years and sat as a Federal Court judge for five years. I believe his wealth of legal knowledge will be welcome at the Supreme Court."

MacKay was responding to a barrage of questions from the NDP asking why the government was trying to "get around the rules" over Mainville's appointment.

In a later answer, MacKay seemed to correct himself, saying Mainville "was a member of the Quebec bar association for 33 years," referring to Mainville's bar experience in the past tense. And he further clarified that by "Supreme Court," he meant Quebec's court of appeal, which, he said, is "the supreme court of Quebec."

MacKay said the NDP should get behind Mainville and support him "in his good work as a judge on the appeal court of Quebec."

Nevertheless, the unusual move with Mainville is widely seen as the government's possible attempt to get around the Supreme Court ruling on Nadon in order to appoint Mainville to the high court, which is why ears perked up when MacKay seemed to say he would be welcome there.
The Supreme Court tells Stevie no, well he is about to try again. I thought the first paragraph was funny. Nice try Pete. Supreme court of Quebec? What?

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06-17-2014, 07:09 PM
  #592
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I'm not surprised Engridge passed, it was a done deal a long time ago. I will be interested how this will be seen in BC though, especially since the conditions mentionned by Clarke are said to not have been met. Is she going to stand firm on that?

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06-17-2014, 07:45 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by bombers15 View Post
What I don't understand is that Aboriginal groups on the land that the pipeline would go through are completely opposed to it. So shouldn't that be the end of it? I mean, really. If you don't want something on your land, do you not have the right to say no?

Oil politics. I don't care for it.
I could be entirely wrong but aren't the aboriginal lands legally owned by the Federal Government?

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06-17-2014, 09:52 PM
  #594
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Quote:
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Your grandchildren won't have old age pensions, quit being silly.
Good point. I probably won't have one either.

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06-18-2014, 01:00 AM
  #595
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Quote:
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Your grandchildren won't have old age pensions, quit being silly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Torts View Post
Good point. I probably won't have one either.
But you'll have a prosperous shiny new pipeline!

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06-18-2014, 01:15 AM
  #596
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I'm optimistic about the long term future (50+ years from now). People have taken a lot of abuse but eventually it will get to a point like in the 1930s where there will be push back and unlike the 1930s - I doubt companies, the elite and government have the stomach for bloodshed. They barely had the stomach for it then (1930s).

Something has to give - jobs are lost not only due to outsourcing but also through technological advance. There just isn't as much work to go around.

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06-18-2014, 01:27 AM
  #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post

But you'll have a prosperous shiny new pipeline!
And my a-hole brother to the east will get all the money, too! I'd be a sucker not to do it.

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06-18-2014, 07:39 AM
  #598
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Interesting ITAC report and how the Harper government's rhetoric on Iran can cause realy problems.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06...error-attacks/

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06-18-2014, 08:53 AM
  #599
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http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...litical-taboo/

Quote:
Indeed, Ms. Wynne’s coalition position was all over the shop. On June 4, it sounded like a no: “I have worked in a minority parliament for the last 16 months,” she said. “If [a majority] isn’t what the people of Ontario choose then we will continue to work in a minority parliament with whoever the government is.” She said the party with the most seats should get first crack at forming a government.

Then, five days later, she said she would under no circumstances “support a Tim Hudak government.” Pressed on the practical implications, she simply combined the two positions — “Whatever party gets the most seats in this election on Thursday has the right to form a government and I will not support a Tim Hudak government” — and dropped the mic.
I do like Selley quite a bit these days

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06-18-2014, 11:05 AM
  #600
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Interesting ITAC report and how the Harper government's rhetoric on Iran can cause realy problems.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06...error-attacks/
IMHO, the Harper government's M-E policy is insane. While we should move with caution, the current new Iranian government is less shrill than the last and it is giving the West a small window of opportunity for talks and bilateral discussion. I'm sorry for what happened in Moncton too but I have come around to Wetcoaster's opinion that there is a segment of the RCMP that is nuts; I read the line "The RCMP says the conspiracy was directed by Al Qaeda figures operating out of Iran". Any Sunni-based AQ operation in Iran would probably be doing so out of a jail cell. They really are throwing the terror PR around and using broad definitions of AQ. The CPC and RCMP have politically been using extremely strict and narrow interpretations to link anybody on their blacklist to terrorist fears reminiscent of the Bush era.

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