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Old
03-26-2014, 01:00 PM
  #26
SnowblindNYR
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I've always hoped that Miller can be better than Dubinsky, whom I consider a solid 2nd line player, but not a high level one. No knock on Dubi, as he was drafted to be a 4th-line pest (remember his post-draft growth spurt?), but I've always thought of him as the kind of player who makes the absolute most out of what he has.

Miller, to my mind, is a better skater and better stickhandler - if he can match Dubi's determination, he still could pan out to be a borderline 1st liner. It's a tall order, though.
I remember Dubinsky when he came up looking a lot like Miller. Good stickhandling but a lack of production. But after his first call up he did well playing with Jagr. The guy really did have good stickhandling skills. Miller seems like he's a faster version. I'm not sure if his stickhandling skills are better though. I think he like Jagr also tried to do too much. I really liked Millers goal on Rask though who is possibly the best goalie in the NHL this year. One thing Miller unequivocally has over Kreider is stick handling.

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03-26-2014, 01:01 PM
  #27
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I think Miller and Kreider on the same line have a chance to be a special line honestly. Don't know who the 3rd would be. Miller-Kreider-Zucc or any of our RWs will be of the better 3rd lines in the league and very difficult to play against.

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03-26-2014, 01:03 PM
  #28
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*Opens can o'worms*

You're not wrong he could be, but with all due respect to Miller, that would mean Kreider is a disappointment.
Why? Because this board has been pumping the tires on Kreider for years? Miller was actually drafted higher.

Anyway, Im not about to call Kreider a disappointment - hes still young. But hes been a fixture on that 1st line LW spot all season and, outside of a great month earlier in the season, doesnt have all that much to show for it. His compete level needs to increase, period.

Miller? I think part of the problem is the organization has no idea how they want to employ him. Hes been a fill-in at wing/center, and has been shuttled back and forth from Hartford. Does he have the size, speed, and shot of Kreider? No. But I think he has much better hands and an infinitely better motor. Time will tell. But I think its funny that people envision this slam dunk scenario where Kreider will be better.

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03-26-2014, 01:07 PM
  #29
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A little trip down memory lane.


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03-26-2014, 01:08 PM
  #30
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Nothing against Miller, but I think I'd like to get a look at Haggerty playing LW on the same line as MSL.
Haggerty is really a right wing with a right shot. Judging by the video of his goals this year he likes to set up and snipe from the left wing circle--still he's a right wing and I don't think it's a good idea to force him into the lineup or move him to his off wing in his first pro game.

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I am not convinced that right now Kreider is better than Miller. Guess we will find out soon enough.
As of now Kreider is definitely the better player. Whether that continues to be the case in future years is another question. You might be right then--you're wrong now.

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Originally Posted by 007 View Post
I've always hoped that Miller can be better than Dubinsky, whom I consider a solid 2nd line player, but not a high level one. No knock on Dubi, as he was drafted to be a 4th-line pest (remember his post-draft growth spurt?), but I've always thought of him as the kind of player who makes the absolute most out of what he has.

Miller, to my mind, is a better skater and better stickhandler - if he can match Dubi's determination, he still could pan out to be a borderline 1st liner. It's a tall order, though.
Dubinsky was drafted somewhat with the hope that he'd become a Darcy Tucker like player. Tucker was not a 4th line pest. He was more like a 2nd line skilled pest. Dubinsky growth spurt forced him to change his style to more like a 2nd line power forward.

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03-26-2014, 02:11 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Why? Because this board has been pumping the tires on Kreider for years? Miller was actually drafted higher.
I know Miller was drafted higher, but you're comparing a boom/bust, "raw" potential top-line pick (Kreider) with a 3rd-line minimum safe pick with very good upside (Miller). They're different types of player. If Miller ends up being the better player, so be it, but it'll mean that by the end of Kreider's Ranger career, he hasn't panned out as they had hoped.

In a way, it's more of a knock on Kreider, because he needs to produce points in order to fulfill his expectations. He's of limited use on the bottom two lines, unless he develops into a defensive specialist with his speed and size. Miller is a guy in whom no-one will be overly disappointed if he ends up as a highly-skilled, energetic 3rd liner.

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Dubinsky was drafted somewhat with the hope that he'd become a Darcy Tucker like player. Tucker was not a 4th line pest. He was more like a 2nd line skilled pest. Dubinsky growth spurt forced him to change his style to more like a 2nd line power forward.
Good point on the Tucker comparison.

And just on a personal note: I am very high on Miller, I think he could be the kind of player other teams' fans are jealous of.

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03-26-2014, 02:18 PM
  #32
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A little trip down memory lane.


the Mason Raymond comparison is not a good one.. i think more the lines of Mike Richards/ Ryan Kesler type forward.

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03-26-2014, 02:24 PM
  #33
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I know Miller was drafted higher, but you're comparing a boom/bust, "raw" potential top-line pick (Kreider) with a 3rd-line minimum safe pick with very good upside (Miller). They're different types of player. If Miller ends up being the better player, so be it, but it'll mean that by the end of Kreider's Ranger career, he hasn't panned out as they had hoped.

In a way, it's more of a knock on Kreider, because he needs to produce points in order to fulfill his expectations. He's of limited use on the bottom two lines, unless he develops into a defensive specialist with his speed and size. Miller is a guy in whom no-one will be overly disappointed if he ends up as a highly-skilled, energetic 3rd liner.



Good point on the Tucker comparison.

And just on a personal note: I am very high on Miller, I think he could be the kind of player other teams' fans are jealous of.
The Rangers don't have a prototypical defensive 3rd line. Hell I don't even know what's considered the 3rd line on this team. They all are pretty offensive minded lines with good players on them. Stepan's line with the way it's been playing has sort of distinguished themselves as a 1st line, but then again when the Brassard line was killing it they were still referred to as the 3rd line. We don't have a 3rd line like Philly.

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03-26-2014, 02:25 PM
  #34
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Dubinsky is still a very good player...he has 44 points in 66 games this season and plays a very physical, agitating game, and also is very good at hanging onto the puck. That last thing alone makes him a valuable player...I'd say if he can stay healthy and put in around 50 points per year then he's about as high level a 2nd line player as you can get without actually being a 1st line player forced to play second line minutes because of the lineup.

The way the NHL is going it's incredibly important to maintain possession of the puck and have guys who are hard to desperate from the puck and who can use that ability to create offense, and that's generally what Dubinsky does.

If Miller can become that then I'll be thrilled, he seems to have the tools for it

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03-26-2014, 02:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Dubinsky is still a very good player...he has 44 points in 66 games this season and plays a very physical, agitating game, and also is very good at hanging onto the puck. That last thing alone makes him a valuable player...I'd say if he can stay healthy and put in around 50 points per year then he's about as high level a 2nd line player as you can get without actually being a 1st line player forced to play second line minutes because of the lineup.

The way the NHL is going it's incredibly important to maintain possession of the puck and have guys who are hard to desperate from the puck and who can use that ability to create offense, and that's generally what Dubinsky does.

If Miller can become that then I'll be thrilled, he seems to have the tools for it
Of all the players and the first rounder in that deal for Nash Dubinsky is the one I hated to give up. He was always chomping on the bit to move up in the Rangers hierarchy. If he were still here he might be wearing an A. A very (almost too) emotional player--one who sticks up for his teammates all the time. People always wanted more goals from him but he tends to look to pass more. He's physical and can grind, penalty kill. Apart from face-offs he's not particularly great at anything but above average to good at everything and very flexible for any number of situations. He's become a real leader on his new team.

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03-26-2014, 02:44 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
The Rangers don't have a prototypical defensive 3rd line. Hell I don't even know what's considered the 3rd line on this team. They all are pretty offensive minded lines with good players on them. Stepan's line with the way it's been playing has sort of distinguished themselves as a 1st line, but then again when the Brassard line was killing it they were still referred to as the 3rd line. We don't have a 3rd line like Philly.
I'm just using the usual shorthand for the type of player he is, not the breakdown of the Rangers system. If Kreider is only good for 15 goals and 35 points, he won't be seen as having worked out for the Rangers (though he might move to another team, where they don't have high expectations and they would love him). My point is that Miller brings more to the table if he can't score in the NHL, in that he's more energetic out on the ice.

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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Dubinsky is still a very good player...he has 44 points in 66 games this season and plays a very physical, agitating game, and also is very good at hanging onto the puck. That last thing alone makes him a valuable player...I'd say if he can stay healthy and put in around 50 points per year then he's about as high level a 2nd line player as you can get without actually being a 1st line player forced to play second line minutes because of the lineup.

The way the NHL is going it's incredibly important to maintain possession of the puck and have guys who are hard to desperate from the puck and who can use that ability to create offense, and that's generally what Dubinsky does.

If Miller can become that then I'll be thrilled, he seems to have the tools for it
I'll admit, I had for some reason thought Dubi was not scoring at that pace this season -- I should have checked. I've thought he's looked good, not great in the games I've watched him in. Either way, that's the sort of guy I'm hoping Miller will be.

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03-26-2014, 02:54 PM
  #37
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Of all the players and the first rounder in that deal for Nash Dubinsky is the one I hated to give up. He was always chomping on the bit to move up in the Rangers hierarchy. If he were still here he might be wearing an A. A very (almost too) emotional player--one who sticks up for his teammates all the time. People always wanted more goals from him but he tends to look to pass more. He's physical and can grind, penalty kill. Apart from face-offs he's not particularly great at anything but above average to good at everything and very flexible for any number of situations. He's become a real leader on his new team.
He had a horrible 11-12 season which stuck out because almost everyone had a great year that year. I wasn't sad to see him go because of that. That might have been a knee jerk reaction though.

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03-26-2014, 03:46 PM
  #38
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Well the thing is that Dubinsky isn't massively skilled offensively and has to work for his points...in that he doesn't have a great shot (though it's pretty hard, he's not very accurate) and he doesn't have the passing vision of someone like Zuccarello, so he got the "disappointment" label in New York after he couldn't become a natural scorer.

But again the way he can work the boards and protect the puck is immensely valuable as is his physical play. I do really wish he was still a Ranger in a lot of ways, but yeah hopefully Miller fills that hole. I dont' think they really have a player like that right now

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03-26-2014, 03:51 PM
  #39
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Why? At least Miller has played in the NHL.
Righty shooting shooter.

The weight of the games may not have as much of an effect on him.

Simple instructions.

Get puck, shoot puck.

Don't get me wrong. Miller is the right selection to be put into this spot.

I just really want to see what a player with a shoot first mentality (a righty at that) can do with a passer like MSL.

Again, this was no knock on Miller.

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03-26-2014, 04:07 PM
  #40
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the Mason Raymond comparison is not a good one.. i think more the lines of Mike Richards/ Ryan Kesler type forward.
was thinking that as well, but Miller has not shown the level of physicality both Richards and Kesler have.

I would love to see Miller be more willing to engage physically.

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03-28-2014, 01:19 PM
  #41
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the Mason Raymond comparison is not a good one.. i think more the lines of Mike Richards/ Ryan Kesler type forward.
Rangers' prospects get underrated all the time. When Kreider was struggling last year I was actually seeing Victor Stalberg CEILING projections on the main board .


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03-28-2014, 01:27 PM
  #42
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In regards to Dubinsky, it's a shame those Ranger teams didn't have better top six/top nine players. If he was in a role that he would feel more comfortable in he arguably wouldn't have struggled in his last season here. Once he played his way out of the top six he was stuck playing with the "third liners." Guys like Boyle, Prust, Fedotenko, etc. aren't exactly good support beams for a player looking to bounce back production wise.

Going back to JT Miller, he seems to be one of the most confident looking prospects this organization has had since Callahan. You would have thought the trips between New York and Hartford would have eventually got to him.

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04-02-2014, 04:33 PM
  #43
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Miller sent back down.

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04/02/2014 J.T. Miller (C) Hartford ADD Returned on loan from N.Y. Rangers (NHL)

http://theahl.com/stats/transactions.php

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04-02-2014, 04:35 PM
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Don't you love how most of the time call ups / send downs get broken on HF before Twitter?

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04-02-2014, 04:46 PM
  #45
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I love Miller. He's still very young at 21. But his inability to stick with the team begins to trouble me just a bit. He has to find way to stick in the lineup.

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04-02-2014, 04:50 PM
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I love Miller. He's still very young at 21. But his inability to stick with the team begins to trouble me just a bit. He has to find way to stick in the lineup.
Its not a big deal right now. like you said he just turned 21 he will be fine next year. he just isnt ready to be a consistent top 9 forward yet. Also the rangers have depth so there is no spot for him. Kreider went through the same thing last year and truned out fine. I dont think Miller is ever gonna be a bigtime player like some do BUT i think he will be a important top 9 player the next few years

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04-02-2014, 05:03 PM
  #47
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I'm glad they sent him back down. Keeping him up here to scratch him every night is a waste.

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04-02-2014, 05:16 PM
  #48
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Good. He's seen enough NHL action to know how it works and what he needs to improve on. Now he just needs to play.

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04-02-2014, 06:24 PM
  #49
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As of now Kreider is definitely the better player. Whether that continues to be the case in future years is another question. You might be right then--you're wrong now.
I don't know that it is definite, and certainly the loss of Kreider has had zero negative impact on the team's performance.

I think because of Kreider's great skating and size he has been vastly overrated here. In terms of production, he was below average. His skills may translate in the future, but so far, not so much.

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04-02-2014, 06:25 PM
  #50
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Its not a big deal right now. like you said he just turned 21 he will be fine next year. he just isnt ready to be a consistent top 9 forward yet. Also the rangers have depth so there is no spot for him. Kreider went through the same thing last year and truned out fine. I dont think Miller is ever gonna be a bigtime player like some do BUT i think he will be a important top 9 player the next few years
Very true. Important to keep things in perspective and all that. I actually have very high hopes for this player. He's a tremendously motivated and coachable kid with solid character and leadership potential. He wants it badly and I want to see him succeed.

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