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Thomas Vanek isn't the dominant force we expected him to be. (Update: sick/hurt?)

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Old
04-01-2014, 01:54 PM
  #426
Ohashi_Jouzu*
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Originally Posted by Shutdown View Post
Where did you see this?

from capgeek:

CONTRACT LIMITS
Maximum contract length is seven years, but extends to eight if a club is re-signing its own player. The eight-year re-signing option expires for UFAs with the opening of free agency on July 1.
Exactly. BUT, if he goes to UFA, I believe his contract might technically be done, and therefore he is no longer a re-signing player... technically. I think the 8 year option only comes into play if you can get the player on your team to sign/extend before the contract expires. An incentive to NOT test UFA waters, if you like, but that still seems to be something on Vanek's "to do" list.

Yada yada yada, if the 8 year option thing is going to help us out here (and I really fear it wouldn't in the long run honestly), I think that card has to come out of the deck before July 1st, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

edit: half-corroborated so far in ensuing posts.

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04-01-2014, 01:57 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Exactly. BUT, if he goes to UFA, I believe his contract might technically be done, and therefore he is no longer a re-signing player... technically. I think the 8 year option only comes into play if you can get the player on your team to sign/extend before the contract expires. An incentive to NOT test UFA waters, if you like, but that still seems to be something on Vanek's "to do" list.

Yada yada yada, if the 8 year option thing is going to help us out here (and I really fear it wouldn't in the long run honestly), I think that card has to come out of the deck before July 1st, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

edit: half-corroborated so far in ensuing posts.
Absolutely, once noon hits on July 1st we can only sign him to 7.

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04-01-2014, 02:00 PM
  #428
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65M$/8years do it bergy !

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04-01-2014, 02:01 PM
  #429
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65M$/8years do it bergy !
would you accept a no trade or limited no trade with that? I say yea just get him signed

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04-01-2014, 02:04 PM
  #430
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Vanek can't be signed to a 8 years contract, he needs to be playing with the same team all year long, Habs dont have the advantage here, the most anyone can sign him to is 7 years.
Uh, no. The player has to be with the team at the trade deadline. The ability to negotiate an 8 year deal expires when the player becomes a UFA but at the moment Montreal is the only team that can sign him for 8 years. Unless Montreal trades him after the season is over the only way for Vanek to get an 8 year deal is with Montreal.

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04-01-2014, 02:08 PM
  #431
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Unless Montreal trades him after the season is over the only way for Vanek to get an 8 year deal is with Montreal.
If Montreal traded him, Vanek could not get an 8-year deal with his new team (as he would not have been with them at the deadline); therefore if he wants an 8-year deal it's Montreal or nothing.

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04-01-2014, 02:12 PM
  #432
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If Montreal traded him, Vanek could not get an 8-year deal with his new team (as he would not have been with them at the deadline); therefore if he wants an 8-year deal it's Montreal or nothing.
true. duh.

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04-01-2014, 02:17 PM
  #433
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Absolutely, once noon hits on July 1st we can only sign him to 7.
Unless your trade the rights to resign him during the draft

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04-01-2014, 02:18 PM
  #434
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If vanek wants to stay and wants a long deal, Montreal should make sure they don't give him a ntc. If vanek gets to a point where it seems like he has to move ala gaborik from nyr to cbj, you really need to make sure that you keep your options as open as possible.... Either that or a very limited ntc is a must.

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04-01-2014, 02:50 PM
  #435
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If vanek wants to stay and wants a long deal, Montreal should make sure they don't give him a ntc. If vanek gets to a point where it seems like he has to move ala gaborik from nyr to cbj, you really need to make sure that you keep your options as open as possible.... Either that or a very limited ntc is a must.
It's obviously better if we don't give him a NTC or have a NTC that expires after 5 years but really at the end of the day it shouldn't be a deal breaker for us. If he really wants the full NMC clause then we give it to him. If he doesn't care too much about having one then we don't (Or just give him a modified one).

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04-01-2014, 02:56 PM
  #436
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No matter what our 2nd line is, keeping Vanek gives us 2 good offensive lines. So if the Habs want to battle for the cup for the upcoming years, keeping Vanek is an absolute must. So I really hope MB does everything to keep him with the Habs. With Vanek, I am perfectly comfortable with the rest of our offensive group. Defense could be a bit better and there's no one I would rather have than Price. So offense is good enough (if Vanek re-signs), defense is okay, goalie is good enough. We are getting closer.

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04-01-2014, 02:59 PM
  #437
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In terms of $ the two comparables are Perry and Getzlaf. Vanek is in their class and they are 8.2-8.6 cap hits. They are slightly younger so maybe we get a small discount there, and we might get another small discount by front loading but we should be looking at 8 to 8.5 cap hit to retain unless he wants to give us a discount because he loves the city or thinks we are a contender.

If Vanek cares about the money then we should have no trouble thanks to that 8th year.

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04-01-2014, 04:59 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
In terms of $ the two comparables are Perry and Getzlaf. Vanek is in their class and they are 8.2-8.6 cap hits. They are slightly younger so maybe we get a small discount there, and we might get another small discount by front loading but we should be looking at 8 to 8.5 cap hit to retain unless he wants to give us a discount because he loves the city or thinks we are a contender.

If Vanek cares about the money then we should have no trouble thanks to that 8th year.
I'd say that Getzlaf and Perry are both better players than Vanek. They are both more complete players that play a 200 ft game while being better offensively.

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04-01-2014, 05:31 PM
  #439
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I'd say that Getzlaf and Perry are both better players than Vanek. They are both more complete players that play a 200 ft game while being better offensively.
That may be true but Vanek has been the more consistent goal scorer of the 3. And he can rightfully argue that Perry and Getzlaf have each other to help each other out whereas he was "alone" in Buffalo.

Besides it's not how you or I view Vanek it's how Vanek sees himself. And I'm pretty sure he sees himself as a comparable to a guy like Perry.

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04-01-2014, 06:06 PM
  #440
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Doesn't matter how Vanek stacks up to Getz and Perry. They aren't available .

Let's hope for a good playoff performance and a sense of unfinished business to lubricate the situation. Make no mistake it's going to take 8 years a lot of money and a no movement clause to get this team to the next level .

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04-01-2014, 07:31 PM
  #441
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(sorry, my joke did not came across. I meant it like you'd say a wingman: don't start saying how we actually behaved to the girl. Just accept whatever story we make up)
Got that -- HIMYM style….

Hey, did you meet…..

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04-01-2014, 07:42 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Doesn't matter how Vanek stacks up to Getz and Perry. They aren't available .

Let's hope for a good playoff performance and a sense of unfinished business to lubricate the situation. Make no mistake it's going to take 8 years a lot of money and a no movement clause to get this team to the next level .
I see absolutely no problem with a NMC for 5 years and an increasing LNMC with an increasing amount of teams he would be willing to be traded to in the last three years. A front-loaded contract, with a more manageable Cap hit in the final years would also be a wise move by Montreal to hedge the risk of an 8-year contract.

With the inevitably rising Cap, even a somewhat under performing Vanek would be tradable near the end of his contract if the team we trade with is a team having difficulty reaching the Cap floor and even more difficulty raising a global budget for the team while keeping a semblance of financial viability...

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04-02-2014, 02:27 PM
  #443
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That may be true but Vanek has been the more consistent goal scorer of the 3. And he can rightfully argue that Perry and Getzlaf have each other to help each other out whereas he was "alone" in Buffalo.

Besides it's not how you or I view Vanek it's how Vanek sees himself. And I'm pretty sure he sees himself as a comparable to a guy like Perry.
Consistency is nice, but often the contract is decided by the peak performance of a player. Both Getzlaf and Perry have shown potential to be 90+ point scorers and more importantly are doing it this year. Vanek hasn't shown that ever and his scoring seems to average more in the 60-70 point range. Anyway, I could go in detail why I think both Perry and Getzlaf are better than Vanek, but you are right and this is about Vanek's assessment of his worth. And unless you're friends with Vanek or his agent, I don't really think you really have a valid opinion on the matter.

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04-02-2014, 02:54 PM
  #444
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Vanek's "value" is around 6.75-7 mil based on being a 30-40 goal scorer.

Because of the Montreal tax situation, they may have to pay him around 7.5-8 mil/year, as a UFA he can probably get 8-8.25/year if he just goes for the most bucks.

Due to his age the Habs may try and sign him 4-5 years but they can go to 8.

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04-02-2014, 03:43 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Vanek's "value" is around 6.75-7 mil based on being a 30-40 goal scorer.

Because of the Montreal tax situation, they may have to pay him around 7.5-8 mil/year, as a UFA he can probably get 8-8.25/year if he just goes for the most bucks.

Due to his age the Habs may try and sign him 4-5 years but they can go to 8.
I'd go to 7-8 years, just to get him signed, and deal with the problems later. TB got out of their **** contract with Lecavalier, NY traded us Gomez, etc. There's always a way out of cap hell.

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04-03-2014, 03:00 PM
  #446
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I'm not sure if anyone read this but the Habs and Isles exchanged their picks from the Vanek/Collberg deal.

http://thehabsnation.net/2014/04/03/...lks-plus-more/

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04-03-2014, 05:17 PM
  #447
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Absolutely, once noon hits on July 1st we can only sign him to 7.
Is that bad? Wouldn't you rather have it for 7? A team that signs him for 8 might regret it at some point.

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04-03-2014, 06:29 PM
  #448
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Id like to see him in the playoffs first before talking contracts.

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04-04-2014, 08:33 PM
  #449
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Again tonight he makes a nice hit to get our team the puck which leads to a goal! Hopefully nights like this make him want to stay in Montreal!

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04-04-2014, 09:16 PM
  #450
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14 points in 14 games

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