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Mike Weaver Appreciation Thread

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Old
03-26-2014, 12:04 PM
  #51
overlords
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Would definitely consider re-signing weaver. He's a luxury on our third pairing.

Tinordi - Subban
Markov(beaulieu?) - Emelin
Gorges - Weaver
pateryn/nygren


That third pairing would be given crazy hard minutes, and they'd still come out looking pretty good. Giving our other two pairings easier minutes would give us a ton of offense.

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Old
03-26-2014, 12:16 PM
  #52
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
I'm aware of who his partner was. And no, Bouillion's stat line and Weaver's don't really have much in common.
45 GP, 1G 4A, -12, 19 PIM, ~19 mins/night
55 GP, 0G 5A, -9, 23 PIM ~20 mins/night

Yeah, not similar at all, really.

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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Points, sure but that's really not what I'm concerned about. Weaver's a plus possession player against reasonably tough competition, while Bouillion is among the worst in the league playing soft minutes.
As long as we're talking about Weaver as a 3rd pairing guy, fine. If anyone wants to talk about him as potentially anything more, well, the numbers and comparison are there for others to think about.

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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
That's the difference, Weaver is good enough to be competent next to someone like Kulikov while players like Bouillion and Murray have either dragged their partners down or just been plain awful against 4th liners. I'm not getting into the whole Murray thing again in this thread but I think you've got it backwards if your perspective is that Weaver needs a guy like Murray.
Well, depending on what you want from Weaver, he actually needs a partner better than Murray. Just so happens that Murray is strongest in all the areas that Weaver is weakest. Literally. But this line totally loses focus on the fact that, between the two of them, Weaver is infinitely more replaceable than Murray, and it's not like either guy is really in a position to lobby for more responsibility or a higher spot in the depth chart anyway.

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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
My perspective of his play is someone who is a strong #5 and a reasonable fill in as a #4 with a good partner. I don't want the team to go out and trade a bunch of guys in the summer to have him as our #4, and I don't think he "replaces" Gorges. Agreed that people are getting a tad ahead of themselves talking about him as a top 4 fixture going forward but equally as inaccurate is this idea that he's a "depth" guy in the Murray/Bouillion/Drewiske tier.
Yes, Weaver's a new toy right now. Excitement abounds. There's a reason he's 35 and so few on this board have even heard of him before, though, despite having played almost 20 (admittedly completely forgettable) games against us on a conference opponent in the past and in a ~top 4 role: he's exactly a depth guy like Murray/Bouillon, only with fewer distinct strengths and weaknesses to talk about, and enough luck to find himself on crappy teams at their crappiest periods of depth. With guys like Gorges/Emelin ahead of them, they find themselves in the same spot.

But again, full marks for a particularly inspired and effective game on Monday, followed by a solid enough game yesterday.

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Old
03-26-2014, 12:56 PM
  #53
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Went to the game last night

Weaver definitely stood out for the right reasons

it was tinordi that concerned me a bit

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Old
03-26-2014, 01:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
45 GP, 1G 4A, -12, 19 PIM, ~19 mins/night
55 GP, 0G 5A, -9, 23 PIM ~20 mins/night

Yeah, not similar at all, really.
Ironically I'm supposed to be the guy that just reads off stats with no context. 20 minutes a night against Weaver's competition vs. Bouillon's is completely different. We don't even have to look at possession metrics for that to be true.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
As long as we're talking about Weaver as a 3rd pairing guy, fine. If anyone wants to talk about him as potentially anything more, well, the numbers and comparison are there for others to think about.
I agree that he isn't a fixture of your top 4 if you want to compete (while I think Gorges can be a part of a contending top 4). I don't think it's unreasonable that we'd be better off right now with him next to Markov than Emelin though.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, depending on what you want from Weaver, he actually needs a partner better than Murray. Just so happens that Murray is strongest in all the areas that Weaver is weakest. Literally. But this line totally loses focus on the fact that, between the two of them, Weaver is infinitely more replaceable than Murray, and it's not like either guy is really in a position to lobby for more responsibility or a higher spot in the depth chart anyway.
Murray's big and strong which I guess if you're concerned about Weaver's height is a plus, but neither guy are particularly great puck movers. I'd say Weaver needs someone of Markov or Beaulieu's skillset more than Murray's, especially when you look at his success with Kulikov.

That's I guess where the Gorges comparisons come from, neither Gorges nor Weaver can carry a pairing but both are strong enough to be a good complimentary player. Again, that's why people are happy with Weaver, because he is good enough in his own right to be competent next to Kulikov or presumably Markov or other players, while Murray and Bouillion are warm bodies who drag down everyone they play with.

Also disagree that Weaver is more easily replaceable. At the deadline maybe, but there are plenty of big plugs to stand in front of the net available in free agency.

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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Yes, Weaver's a new toy right now. Excitement abounds. There's a reason he's 35 and so few on this board have even heard of him before
Well yeah, he's 5'10". It is what it is.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
he's exactly a depth guy like Murray/Bouillon, only with fewer distinct strengths and weaknesses to talk about, and enough luck to find himself on crappy teams at their crappiest periods of depth. With guys like Gorges/Emelin ahead of them, they find themselves in the same spot.
Eh. Once again I'm going to have to disagree and there's pretty much nowhere to go from here in this discussion. All that's going to go on from here is mud slinging about who has better judgment and it's clear we're not going to see eye to eye.

You see Murray and Bouillion as 3rd pairing guys, I see them as AHL level players. Weaver's a legitimate NHLer, it's not about him setting the world on fire, but being a solidifying member of a D corps that usually only has one competent pairing with how bad Markov-Emelin has been. I agree with you that he hasn't made Gorges expendable and that he belongs ideally on the 3rd pairing. Disagree strongly that he's interchangeable with Bouillon or Murray.

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03-26-2014, 01:11 PM
  #55
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It is very funny to compare this thread about Weaver, and the one created at the trade deadline....

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Old
03-26-2014, 01:13 PM
  #56
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Big thing is that Weaver is a right handed shot. It's a natural advantage and something we needed dearly on the back end.

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Old
03-26-2014, 01:13 PM
  #57
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It is very funny to compare this thread about Weaver, and the one created at the trade deadline....
You mean it's possible to be less than 6 feet tall and play hockey?

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Old
03-26-2014, 01:13 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Ironically I'm supposed to be the guy that just reads off stats with no context. 20 minutes a night against Weaver's competition vs. Bouillon's is completely different. We don't even have to look at possession metrics for that to be true.

I agree that he isn't a fixture of your top 4 if you want to compete (while I think Gorges can be a part of a contending top 4). I don't think it's unreasonable that we'd be better off right now with him next to Markov than Emelin though.

Murray's big and strong which I guess if you're concerned about Weaver's height is a plus, but neither guy are particularly great puck movers. I'd say Weaver needs someone of Markov or Beaulieu's skillset more than Murray's, especially when you look at his success with Kulikov.

That's I guess where the Gorges comparisons come from, neither Gorges nor Weaver can carry a pairing but both are strong enough to be a good complimentary player. Again, that's why people are happy with Weaver, because he is good enough in his own right to be competent next to Kulikov or presumably Markov or other players, while Murray and Bouillion are warm bodies who drag down everyone they play with.

Also disagree that Weaver is more easily replaceable. At the deadline maybe, but there are plenty of big plugs to stand in front of the net available in free agency.


Well yeah, he's 5'10". It is what it is.

Eh. Once again I'm going to have to disagree and there's pretty much nowhere to go from here in this discussion. All that's going to go on from here is mud slinging about who has better judgment and it's clear we're not going to see eye to eye.

You see Murray and Bouillion as 3rd pairing guys, I see them as AHL level players. Weaver's a legitimate NHLer, it's not about him setting the world on fire, but being a solidifying member of a D corps that usually only has one competent pairing with how bad Markov-Emelin has been. I agree with you that he hasn't made Gorges expendable and that he belongs ideally on the 3rd pairing. Disagree strongly that he's interchangeable with Bouillon or Murray.
Glad to have Weaver. We needed a RH d-man with experience.

But Murray and Bouillon are no AHL d-men. They are very servicable #6-#7 NHL caliber d-men with loads of experience and grit.

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Old
03-26-2014, 01:15 PM
  #59
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You mean it's possible to be less than 6 feet tall and play hockey?
As long as you don't have another 6 or 7 like that in your whole line up.

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Old
03-26-2014, 01:15 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Would definitely consider re-signing weaver. He's a luxury on our third pairing.

Tinordi - Subban
Markov(beaulieu?) - Emelin
Gorges - Weaver
pateryn/nygren


That third pairing would be given crazy hard minutes, and they'd still come out looking pretty good. Giving our other two pairings easier minutes would give us a ton of offense.
I think it's time to have confidence in our rookies d-man. We need to stop signing 1 year deal with old veteran just for the sakes of not having confidence in our yougth.

Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn and Nygren will all be ready for the show next year.

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Old
03-26-2014, 01:20 PM
  #61
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Haven't really been on here for a while, does everyone still think Bergevin is an uneducated hack trying to sabotage the Habs? I mean, it was absolutely unbearable here for a while! I'm hoping we've collectively stepped back from the ledge, for now at least.


Edit: It's really something, this kind of depth on defense. I really hope we can figure out this offense thing, because I feel we can make a nice run with these sneaky Mike Weaver-type acquisitions.


Last edited by HankyZetts: 03-26-2014 at 01:28 PM.
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Old
03-26-2014, 01:29 PM
  #62
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I think it's time to have confidence in our rookies d-man. We need to stop signing 1 year deal with old veteran just for the sakes of not having confidence in our yougth.

Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn and Nygren will all be ready for the show next year.
Nygren won't come back until he is sure being given a full time job at NHL level.

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Old
03-26-2014, 07:25 PM
  #63
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Trade him than, there's no room for that kind of prima donna BS.

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Old
03-26-2014, 07:28 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Haven't really been on here for a while, does everyone still think Bergevin is an uneducated hack trying to sabotage the Habs? I mean, it was absolutely unbearable here for a while! I'm hoping we've collectively stepped back from the ledge, for now at least.


Edit: It's really something, this kind of depth on defense. I really hope we can figure out this offense thing, because I feel we can make a nice run with these sneaky Mike Weaver-type acquisitions.
Yeah, I do. I think Dudley is pulling the strings to be honest.

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Old
03-26-2014, 07:38 PM
  #65
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I would like him back for cheap too but Nygren might be coming up and would prefer magnus.

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Old
03-26-2014, 07:45 PM
  #66
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Yeah, I do. I think Dudley is pulling the strings to be honest.
I never got this kind of thinking, it's so indefensible to me. I've seen it with previous GMs as well. Gainey made a bad move? Must have been Gauthier pulling the strings! And now when Bergevin makes a good move it's Dudley pulling the strings?

Give me a break

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Old
03-26-2014, 08:14 PM
  #67
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Weaver is a poor man's Josh Gorges. Basically, he's as good in a bottom pairing role as Gorges is in a 4/5 role. They're two very similar players, but Gorges is younger, bigger, and can handle a Top 4 role on a long-term basis. So while Weaver is an excellent short-term injury replacement for Gorges, he doesn't make Gorges trade-expendable. We still need to keep Gorges unless we acquire a Top 4 D elsewhere.

That being said, Weaver is almost exactly what you want in a bottom-pairing D. It also helps that he's right-handed. If Weaver's willing to resign for $1.5 million or less, and 2 years or less, I'd bring him back.

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Old
03-27-2014, 03:00 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
Weaver is a poor man's Josh Gorges. Basically, he's as good in a bottom pairing role as Gorges is in a 4/5 role. They're two very similar players, but Gorges is younger, bigger, and can handle a Top 4 role on a long-term basis. So while Weaver is an excellent short-term injury replacement for Gorges, he doesn't make Gorges trade-expendable. We still need to keep Gorges unless we acquire a Top 4 D elsewhere.

That being said, Weaver is almost exactly what you want in a bottom-pairing D. It also helps that he's right-handed. If Weaver's willing to resign for $1.5 million or less, and 2 years or less, I'd bring him back.
Yeah I'd like to keep Weaver for another year or two low cap hit as a low pairing guy for the right side... I know people are either really for trading Gorges or really against it but I think we need to make a move or sign a right handed d man for top 4 this summer and move Gorges as we have:

Markov
Emelin
Gorges
Tinordi
Beaulieu

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Old
03-30-2014, 03:12 PM
  #69
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What a pleasant surprise he has been so far !

If we can sign him for cheap, I don't see why we wouldn't bring him back next year.

Left-Right:

Markov-Emelin
Gorges-Subban
Tinordi/Beaulieu-Weaver

Extra: Pateryn or Nygren depending which one makes the team...

(Alternate Tinordi and Beaulieu using Tinordi against physical teams and Beaulieu against fast teams)

In the AHL:

Left-Right

David Drewiske-Pateryn (if he's not in the NHL)
Bennet-Ellis
AHL Veteran- Dietz
Chouinard-Thrower

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Old
03-30-2014, 03:54 PM
  #70
Comfortably Numb
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Would definitely consider re-signing weaver. He's a luxury on our third pairing.

Tinordi - Subban
Markov(beaulieu?) - Emelin
Gorges - Weaver
pateryn/nygren


That third pairing would be given crazy hard minutes, and they'd still come out looking pretty good. Giving our other two pairings easier minutes would give us a ton of offense.
I agree that Weaver is a cheap luxury to have and I would like him back, but I think Gorges is going to play with Subban on the first pairing and not Tinordi. Next year, I see:

Gorges - Subban
Markov - Emelin
Tinordi - Weaver
Beaulieu

Out of curiosity, can you tell me more about Pateryn and Nygren? I know Pateryn has been doing great in the AHL, but do you really think they're ready for the big show? What are there potential?

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Old
03-30-2014, 05:28 PM
  #71
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I would rather we go out and get a proven top 4 dman, or pick up somebody underutilized by other teams who may not be able to afford the player.

I look at somebody like Edler or Leddy in this regard, even if we keep Markov.

Subban-Gorges
Leddy-Markov
Emelin-Tinordi

Maybe keep Weaver as a 7th dman and let Beaulieu stay in Hamilton if he can't crack our top 4. Having Weaver in our top 6 is just not something I want to see.

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Old
04-04-2014, 09:43 PM
  #72
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What a pickup by Bergy. I knew that Weaver was a good steady defensemen when he was with the panthers but he has exceeded my expectations. I think this move was really underrated at the time.

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Old
04-04-2014, 09:45 PM
  #73
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He has been good and he is even contributing offensively, I will admit offensively he is better then Gorges because of his shot. While I like Gorges defence, he cant shoot to save his life.

We should keep him for another year or two max consireding his age.

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Old
04-04-2014, 09:54 PM
  #74
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In 13 games Weaver is +7 and 6 points while playing some heavy minutes on the PK and at ES.

Come Bergy do it!

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Old
04-04-2014, 09:56 PM
  #75
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He's playing like himself 4-5 years back. Just a solid player. Moves the puck better than you expect EVERY time.

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