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Comparing the D prospects

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:18 PM
  #1
JohnEDrama
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Comparing the D prospects

Considering the consensus seems to be that the top D prospects are all similar in some aspects (good skating, hard shot) I wanted to see what people's opinions would be when we compared them to each other.

Out of Morin, Hägg, and Ghost, who is/has the:



1. Best Skater
2. Hardest Shot
3. Most Accurate Shot
4. Most Physical
5. Highest Hockey I.Q.
6. Highest Offensive Ceiling
7. Highest Defensive Ceiling
8. Highest Ceiling Overall

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:25 PM
  #2
LegionOfDoom91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEDrama View Post
Considering the consensus seems to be that the top D prospects are all similar in some aspects (good skating, hard shot) I wanted to see what people's opinions would be when we compared them to each other.

Out of Morin, Hägg, and Ghost, who is/has the:



1. Best Skater
2. Hardest Shot
3. Most Accurate Shot
4. Most Physical
5. Highest Hockey I.Q.
6. Highest Offensive Ceiling
7. Highest Defensive Ceiling
8. Highest Ceiling Overall
1. Gostisbehere
2. Morin
3. Gostisbehere?
4. Morin
5. Morin?
6. Gostisbehere
7. Hagg
8. Morin

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:33 PM
  #3
Go For It
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEDrama View Post
Considering the consensus seems to be that the top D prospects are all similar in some aspects (good skating, hard shot) I wanted to see what people's opinions would be when we compared them to each other.

Out of Morin, Hägg, and Ghost, who is/has the:



1. Best Skater
2. Hardest Shot
3. Most Accurate Shot
4. Most Physical
5. Highest Hockey I.Q.
6. Highest Offensive Ceiling
7. Highest Defensive Ceiling
8. Highest Ceiling Overall
1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Ghost
4. Morin
5. Honestly not sure
6. Ghost
7. Morin
8. Morin

Not trying to take anything away from Hagg, but I see him being more of a jack-of-all trades kind of defenseman who isn't the best in one particular area when compared to the other prospects.

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:35 PM
  #4
The Couturier Effect
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
1. Gostisbehere
2. Morin
3. Gostisbehere?
4. Morin
5. Morin?
6. Gostisbehere
7. Hagg
8. Morin
That seems about right.

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:36 PM
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1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Ghost
4. Morin
5. Morin
6. Ghost
7. Morin maybe Hagg
8. Morin

At least that's what I would say. I think Hagg is a nice blend of the two and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being the better pro of the three because of that balance.

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:38 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEDrama View Post
Considering the consensus seems to be that the top D prospects are all similar in some aspects (good skating, hard shot) I wanted to see what people's opinions would be when we compared them to each other.

Out of Morin, Hägg, and Ghost, who is/has the:



1. Best Skater
2. Hardest Shot
3. Most Accurate Shot
4. Most Physical
5. Highest Hockey I.Q.
6. Highest Offensive Ceiling
7. Highest Defensive Ceiling
8. Highest Ceiling Overall
1-Ghost
2-Morin(104 MPH, Hardest in the Q)
3-Ghost
4-Morin
5-Morin
6-Morin(if he reaches his ceiling we all will be very very satisfied)
7-Morin
8-Morin by far

Morin is the teams #1 prospect I feel in regards to overall potential mixed with where he is in his development. I have seen him most out of all our prospects so I could be a little biased but I have been most impressed with him every time. Hopefully he keeps on growing and developing and we will have a kid that can make the jump and contribute in big ways right away.

Hagg is still a very good prospect we just have two defense prospects that are a little higher ceiling than him right now... who knows how he comes along playing on NA ice though. Wouldn't write him off in the potential boat either.

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:41 PM
  #7
LegionOfDoom91
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I think Gostisbehere's skating along with Morin's physicality are really the only landslide categories, the rest are closer & argument's could possibly be made for either three.

Disclaimer: I'm of the opinion that Morin has a high overall upside but I know not everybody sees that & when it comes to predicting ones future it is very subjective so I left that out even though in my opinion that one would be another landslide category.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 03-31-2014 at 09:46 PM.
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Old
03-31-2014, 09:48 PM
  #8
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I am shocked that people have Morin rated so highly in hockey IQ. Now, I'm not saying that he has a bad hockey IQ per se, but I think that his inability to control his emotions (youth or no) in comparison to a similarly aged Gostisbehere or Hagg makes me want to rank either of those two higher in that category today. Again, there is so little to judge "hockey sense" on when playing against peers (for Ghost and Morin) who they are so vastly physically superior to, but what we can weigh today is a player that allows himself (a superior talent) to be so easily removed from the ice by plugs that get under his skin.

I agree with the earlier sentiment though... Ghost's skating and Morin's physicality are the only ones where I feel there is any level of separation from the next best prospect. When you talk ceiling, it's all speculation, offensive, defensive or two-way.

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:53 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I am shocked that people have Morin rated so highly in hockey IQ. Now, I'm not saying that he has a bad hockey IQ per se, but I think that his inability to control his emotions (youth or no) in comparison to a similarly aged Gostisbehere or Hagg makes me want to rank either of those two higher in that category today. Again, there is so little to judge "hockey sense" on when playing against peers (for Ghost and Morin) who they are so vastly physically superior to.

I agree with the earlier sentiment though... Ghost's skating and Morin's physicality are the only ones where I feel there is any level of separation from the next best prospect. When you talk ceiling, it's all speculation, offensive, defensive or two-way.
When I think of hockey IQ, personally, I'm thinking how a player reads the play, positions himself, takes away space, etc. Raw emotion is part of that, sure, but you can learn to keep that in check.

You don't seem to be able to teach a player how to read a play and act according, they either do, or they don't. Again, just my opinion.

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03-31-2014, 09:59 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
When I think of hockey IQ, personally, I'm thinking how a player reads the play, positions himself, takes away space, etc. Raw emotion is part of that, sure, but you can learn to keep that in check.

You don't seem to be able to teach a player how to read a play and act according, they either do, or they don't. Again, just my opinion.
I agree 100% that it can be taught, but when you're ranking three players in an areas like this are you ranking "hockey sense ceiling" or "hockey sense " today?

Right now, I'm thinking specifically of Ghost in a butterfly position blocking goals in a crucial game two days ago. He avoids hits with slick moves and breakout passes. What is the Ghost hockey sense negative that puts him behind Morin right now when we've already established that Morin has a current, if correctable, blemish on his hockey sense.

It's entirely possible I'm using a different definition of hockey sense. Generally speaking, anything where I think "Boy, that was smart (or dumb)... or "He made that guy look silly" or "What a great understanding of situational hockey". Maybe people don't view taking stupid penalties as a reflection on hockey sense? Do people believe hockey sense improves? I do.

I know some of the posters here are going to jump all over me, so I want to make it clear that I think Morin has plenty of hockey sense, but I'm curious about what they see in that area that puts him (unanimously so far) ahead of a guy like Ghost.... other than draft position and a desire to feel vindication for selecting Morin 11th overall.

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Old
03-31-2014, 10:03 PM
  #11
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I don't think a player losing his cool is in the "hockey IQ' criteria like the other poster said. His gap control is good, he makes the fast smart first pass and definitely has the best ability(IMO) of our defenders to keep the play smart and safe. Just because he loses his emotion some times has no impact on hockey IQ. It's more about the play and not what happens after the whistles when most of his emotions get the best of him. He has a good idea of when to join the rush and is rarely, especially when I have watched, be out of position. The same can't be said about Ghost and he will need to really simplify his game at the pro level to be an effective puck moving defender.

Like I have said, I wasn't even pleased with the pick when it was made. I have watched a ton of Morin and he is really showing why the Flyers and scouts had him so high. He has every tool in the shed, he just needs to put it all together. There is no justification on my half who the Flyers picked, just my opinion.

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03-31-2014, 10:04 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEDrama View Post
Considering the consensus seems to be that the top D prospects are all similar in some aspects (good skating, hard shot) I wanted to see what people's opinions would be when we compared them to each other.

Out of Morin, Hägg, and Ghost, who is/has the:



1. Best Skater
2. Hardest Shot
3. Most Accurate Shot
4. Most Physical
5. Highest Hockey I.Q.
6. Highest Offensive Ceiling
7. Highest Defensive Ceiling
8. Highest Ceiling Overall
Skater:
1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Haag

Hardest Shot
1. Morin
2. Ghost
3. Haag

Accurate Shot
1. Ghost
2. Haag
3. Morin

Most Physical
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost

Highest IQ
All three are pretty close. Tough to call.

Offensive Ceiling
1. Ghost
2. Haag
3. Morin

Defensive Ceiling
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost

Ceiling Overall
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost

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Old
03-31-2014, 10:09 PM
  #13
LegionOfDoom91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I agree 100% that it can be taught, but when you're ranking three players in an areas like this are you ranking "hockey sense ceiling" or "hockey sense " today?

Right now, I'm thinking specifically of Ghost in a butterfly position blocking goals in a crucial game two days ago. He avoids hits with slick moves and breakout passes. What is the Ghost hockey sense negative that puts him behind Morin right now when we've already established that Morin has a current, if correctable, blemish on his hockey sense.

It's entirely possible I'm using a different definition of hockey sense. Generally speaking, anything where I think "Boy, that was smart (or dumb)... or "He made that guy look silly" or "What a great understanding of situational hockey". Maybe people don't view taking stupid penalties as a reflection on hockey sense? Do people believe hockey sense improves? I do.

I know some of the posters here are going to jump all over me, so I want to make it clear that I think Morin has plenty of hockey sense, but I'm curious about what they see in that area that puts him (unanimously so far) ahead of a guy like Ghost.... other than draft position and a desire to feel vindication for selecting Morin 11th overall.
I get what you're saying but Gostisbehere isn't an angel himself, he has some smudges on his record when it comes to keeping it cool in games examples high sticking the Czech kid in his man area during the WJC's & spazzing out at the end of the the Quinnipiac game in the which got him kicked out.

Hagg's really the only one that doesn't have a history of getting hot headed out of the three or at least no incidents that I know of.

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Old
03-31-2014, 10:11 PM
  #14
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Pronger was the most hot headed guys or close to it to put on a NHL jersey. He was one of the smartest hockey players I have ever seen play the game.

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03-31-2014, 10:15 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Skater:
1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Haag

Hardest Shot
1. Morin
2. Ghost
3. Haag

Accurate Shot
1. Ghost
2. Haag
3. Morin

Most Physical
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost

Highest IQ
All three are pretty close. Tough to call.

Offensive Ceiling
1. Ghost
2. Haag
3. Morin

Defensive Ceiling
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost

Ceiling Overall
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost
This pretty close to how I see it. Again, I hate the ceiling measurements because they are 100% guesswork, but if forced to rank them, the only change I might make would be swapping Ghost and Hagg in overall ceiling. Again, complete guesswork there.

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Old
03-31-2014, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I am shocked that people have Morin rated so highly in hockey IQ. Now, I'm not saying that he has a bad hockey IQ per se, but I think that his inability to control his emotions (youth or no) in comparison to a similarly aged Gostisbehere or Hagg makes me want to rank either of those two higher in that category today. Again, there is so little to judge "hockey sense" on when playing against peers (for Ghost and Morin) who they are so vastly physically superior to, but what we can weigh today is a player that allows himself (a superior talent) to be so easily removed from the ice by plugs that get under his skin.

I agree with the earlier sentiment though... Ghost's skating and Morin's physicality are the only ones where I feel there is any level of separation from the next best prospect. When you talk ceiling, it's all speculation, offensive, defensive or two-way.

I'm not sure what kind of line I would be drawing between the heart and the head. While as Flyers fans, we know all too well how detrimental it can be when a player can't control his emotions but I don't think this is a factor in measuring the mind's eye for the game.

I would be interested in hearing the opinion of those who are so sure about their IQ rating here, if anyone really is. I certainly haven't seen enough of these guys to be comparing their on ice IQs. They all seem (sound) to be quite intelligent players. The only noteable thing I can think of is how much mention there's always been about Hagg's consistency with puck decisions, so I guess that's enough for me to say Morin or Ghost.

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03-31-2014, 10:17 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I get what you're saying but Gostisbehere isn't an angel himself, he has some smudges on his record when it comes to keeping it cool in games examples high sticking the Czech kid in his man area during the WJC's & spazzing out at the end of the the Quinnipiac game in the which got him kicked out.

Hagg's really the only one that doesn't have a history of getting hot headed out of the three or at least no incidents that I know of.
Like I said, I'm just trying to get some tangible examples where Morin's hockey sense has exceeded Hagg's or Ghost's. I've watched Morin and Ghost a fair bit, Hagg a few times especially at the WJC, and I just don't see any basis with which to rank them, particularly if you exclude penitent to take bad penalties.

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03-31-2014, 10:24 PM
  #18
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Best Skater
1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Hagg
(none of them are bad, they are all very good skaters, except Ghost is exceptional)

Hardest Shot
1. Morin
2. Ghost
3. Hagg
(^same as above, I think they all have very good shots.)

Most Accurate Shot
1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Hagg

Most Physical
1. Morin
2. Hagg
3. Ghost

Highest Hockey I.Q. (tough one)
1. Ghost
2. Hagg/Morin

Highest Offensive Ceiling
1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Hagg

Highest Defensive Ceiling
1. Morin
2. Hagg
3. Ghost

Highest Overall Ceiling
1. Morin
2. Ghost
3. Hagg

Most Likely to Reach potential
1. Ghost
2. Hagg
3. Morin-He has enormous potential, so of course it could be very difficult to reach

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Old
03-31-2014, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Skater:
1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Haag

Hardest Shot
1. Morin
2. Ghost
3. Haag

Accurate Shot
1. Ghost
2. Haag
3. Morin

Most Physical
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost

Highest IQ
All three are pretty close. Tough to call.

Offensive Ceiling
1. Ghost
2. Haag
3. Morin

Defensive Ceiling
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost

Ceiling Overall
1. Morin
2. Haag
3. Ghost
You better hope our Swedish friend are sleeping

Morin has the highest ceiling no doubt, but I think Gostisbehere has the best chance of reaching his. This kid is a player. Can't wait to see him with the big club. As far as ranking IQ, I would wait until they are all playing professionally to start ranking that. They are all playing against different levels of competition. It's too hard to judge.

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03-31-2014, 10:28 PM
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LegionOfDoom91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Like I said, I'm just trying to get some tangible examples where Morin's hockey sense has exceeded Hagg's or Ghost's. I've watched Morin and Ghost a fair bit, Hagg a few times especially at the WJC, and I just don't see any basis with which to rank them, particularly if you exclude penitent to take bad penalties.
Yeah, I hear you & I don't think you're going to get any to be honest because not many of us have watched this guys on a night in night out basis.

I mean I even think that's a subjective thing to a degree, how does one gauge a hockey sense for sure when most of these kids are so superior to the majority of the kids they're playing in juniors? I don't remember Brayden Schenn's draft year & his two years in juniors after that but I doubt people were completely bad mouthing his hockey sense like you see now a days in the NHL compared to when he was completely dominating the WHL & WJC's.

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03-31-2014, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
You better hope our Swedish friend are sleeping

Morin has the highest ceiling no doubt, but I think Gostisbehere has the best chance of reaching his. This kid is a player. Can't wait to see him with the big club. As far as ranking IQ, I would wait until they are all playing professionally to start ranking that. They are all playing against different levels of competition. It's too hard to judge.
If it makes you feel better, I consider Haag to be the player with the highest floor. The other two could bust completely, but I think Haag has the most balance to his game.

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03-31-2014, 10:33 PM
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If it makes you feel better, I consider Haag to be the player with the highest floor. The other two could bust completely, but I think Haag has the most balance to his game.
Nothing to do with his ranking, but the spelling of his name.

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03-31-2014, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Nothing to do with his ranking, but the spelling of his name.
God damnit, I always do that with him, because it's pronounced nothing like it's spelled.

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03-31-2014, 10:41 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Yeah, I hear you & I don't think you're going to get any to be honest because not many of us have watched this guys on a night in night out basis.

I mean I even think that's a subjective thing to a degree, how does one gauge a hockey sense for sure when most of these kids are so superior to the majority of the kids they're playing in juniors? I don't remember Brayden Schenn's draft year & his two years in juniors after that but I doubt people were completely bad mouthing his hockey sense like you see now a days in the NHL compared to when he was completely dominating the WHL & WJC's.
This is precisely my point. Even if it were not subjective, it's even more difficult to ascertain when you consider the context of the considerable talent gaps in their competition.

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03-31-2014, 10:48 PM
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Best Skater
1. Ghost
2. Hagg
3. Morin
(putting Morin in last here based on overall mobility, but only for the time being)

Hardest Shot
1. Morin
2. Ghost
3. Hagg

Most Accurate Shot
1. Ghost
2. Hagg
3. Morin
(just thinking back to those camp videos from last year, and i know Morin has come a long way, but his shots were nowhere near as accurate as even Hagg's)

Most Physical
1. Morin
2. Hagg
3. Ghost

Highest Hockey I.Q. (?)
1. Ghost
2. Morin
2. Hagg
(Hagg coined as inconsistent so far in both ends of the ice. This ones a pure guess for me but given that Ghost is the size he is as a defencemen, it takes more attention to detail with things like timing and position to make good consistent plays defending your zone than for a 6'7 monster in juniors. He has also proven to be more dynamic to this point as well. I'm not basing it on much more than that too early)

Highest Offensive Ceiling
1. Ghost
2. Morin
3. Hagg

Highest Defensive Ceiling
1. Morin
2. Hagg
3. Ghost

Highest Overall Ceiling
1. Morin
2. Hagg/Ghost
(i don't see Ghost killing penalties in the NHL and i'll consider that here that but his offensive upside is so intriguing)


These 3 guys all sound like NHLers. The offensive stud, the defensive colossus, and the fail safe 2-way.

I think Ghost had a considerable advantage in the non "ceiling" related categories being older by 2 years, which says a lot about Morin and Hagg. Can't ****ing wait for these guys to get here.


Last edited by tymed: 03-31-2014 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Highest Overall Ceiling
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