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Old
06-04-2014, 10:19 AM
  #601
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Let's assume they let him walk. What are their options going into this offseason?

http://capgeek.com/ufa-finder/?position_id=G

Maybe they can re-up him cheaper because the goalie market is a bit over saturated. Miller doesn't have a long term home at the moment. However, he will still cost 6 million per on the downside of his career though on a shorter term deal. Halak? No, clear downgrade in goal there...still would have cost 4.5 million per. Hiller is an option...still going to cost 5 million per.
Even if they lacked faith in Raanta, they have plenty of youth or picks to move for a guy like Reimer or Craig Anderson, neither of whom would cost a lot.

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06-04-2014, 11:14 AM
  #602
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=453908

Re: Hawks Kane and Toews. Nothing really out of the ordinary here, everyone saying the right things, Kane and Toews both want to stay and win, the Hawks want to extend them, etc.

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06-04-2014, 05:23 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
http://capgeek.com/player/280 Dastyuk took WELL below market
http://capgeek.com/player/281 Zetterberg never made more than 8 milliion per annually on his 12 year deal.
Datsyuk signed a 6.7mil per contract SEVEN years ago with NMC/NTC clauses. You're really arguing that wasn't close to market value for the spring of 2007? (April 6th to be exact). This was before he led the Wings on two Cup runs.

Zetterberg contract calls for 7.5mil per year for the first 8 years and 7mil in year 9 of a contract signed Jan of 2008 which is SIX years ago.

Both were at the top of the pay charts when they signed their deals. And neither contract backs the argument that Kane/Toews would settle for 8yrs at 8mil per.


Last edited by joshjull: 06-04-2014 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Corrections on time frame
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06-04-2014, 05:29 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Let's say they hit the open market. The MAX they will get is 7 years, 12 million per. That's 84 million dollars, likely going to a team that isn't near the caliber of the Hawks

If they stay with the Hawks and take 9 million per. 8 years, 72 million.

That is 12 million less over the life of the contract and they get to stay on a team that will be contending for the foreseeable future. I don't see either player going after the money when they have a chance to win several more cups in Chicago. That isn't guaranteed any place else. Also factor in the fact that they are both healthy now. Would either of them (or their agents) risk 64-72 million in guaranteed money when a knee injury or concussion could end their career at anytime?
The max they could get on the open market is 7yrs at 14.22mil per year (based on the current upper limit which would go up next summer). So thats a total of 99.54mil. Not sure where you are coming up with 12mil per from. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think they could get that as free agents in the prime of their careers and with their resumes.


Last edited by joshjull: 06-04-2014 at 06:11 PM.
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Old
06-04-2014, 05:56 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Maybe they want to consider Pittsburgh's inability to build enough depth to compete because they are carrying close to 20 million in 2 players.... and instead want to be very rich hockey players who compete for cups year in and year out, potentially going down in history as on of the greatest tandems to ever play the game.

"zero chance"? come on...

boy was that Crawford contract stupid....
I think this is overplayed with the Pens. They are not a team built to win in the playoffs. Their problem is who they have the money locked up in.

I posted about this I think earlier in this thread. The top teams of the last few playoffs (Hawks, Kings and Bruins) have rosters loaded with two way players including their top players. They also have excellent d-corps (or at least very strong top 4s) anchored by #1 dmen that are excellent shutdown dmen as well as being capable of providing offense. They also have good goalies. These teams also all have at least one top center that does everything (offense/defense/special teams) at a high level.

The Pens have none of the things I've listed. What they have is too much money tied up in players that are pretty much offense only types and they have a goalie with confidence issues that they keep throwing out there.

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06-04-2014, 06:27 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Datsyuk signed a 6.7mil per contract SEVEN years ago with NMC/NTC clauses. You're really arguing that wasn't close to market value for the spring of 2007? (April 6th to be exact) One year after the lockout and a year before Vanek and the co-caps cashed in. It was right after the Wings were upset in the first round by the Oilers. This was before he led the Wings on two Cup runs.
Not to take issue with your underlying point, but April 2007 was almost a whole year after Detroit lost in the first round to Edmonton, and less than two months before Detroit lost to Anaheim in the conference finals. A few months after Datsyuk signed his extension was when Drury and Briere and Vanek and Gomez cashed in for $35.25M/5y, $52M/8y, $50M/7y, and $51.5M/7y respectively. Now, you could argue that Datsyuk's agent misread the upcoming free agent market, but I don't think it's a stretch to assert that Datsyuk signing for $46.9M/7y was a bit of a discount. A significant discount that was completely different from fair market value? No, but a discount.

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Old
06-04-2014, 06:32 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
Not to take issue with your underlying point, but April 2007 was almost a whole year after Detroit lost in the first round to Edmonton, and less than two months before Detroit lost to Anaheim in the conference finals. A few months after Datsyuk signed his extension was when Drury and Briere and Vanek and Gomez cashed in for $35.25M/5y, $52M/8y, $50M/7y, and $51.5M/7y respectively. Now, you could argue that Datsyuk's agent misread the upcoming free agent market, but I don't think it's a stretch to assert that Datsyuk signing for $46.9M/7y was a bit of a discount. A significant discount that was completely different from fair market value? No, but a discount.
Thats right, thanks for the correction.

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06-04-2014, 06:41 PM
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Datsyuk signed a 6.7mil per contract SEVEN years ago with NMC/NTC clauses. You're really arguing that wasn't close to market value for the spring of 2007? (April 6th to be exact). This was before he led the Wings on two Cup runs.

Zetterberg contract calls for 7.5mil per year for the first 8 years and 7mil in year 9 of a contract signed Jan of 2008 which is SIX years ago.

Both were at the top of the pay charts when they signed their deals. And neither contract backs the argument that Kane/Toews would settle for 8yrs at 8mil per.
Did you ignore the Zetterberg/Levavalier comparison because it inconvenienced your position?

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Old
06-04-2014, 07:31 PM
  #609
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Wasn't Lecavalier coming off a Hart finalist campaign and another 90+ point season? Not surprising he'd get more scratch

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06-04-2014, 08:30 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by drinking bleach irl View Post
Wasn't Lecavalier coming off a Hart finalist campaign and another 90+ point season? Not surprising he'd get more scratch
He was also the captain, and the Red Wings had a rule: nobody gets paid more than their best player (Nik Lidstrom)...and he definitely took a hometown discount. So the other guys had to follow suit if they wanted to stay in Detroit.

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Old
06-05-2014, 02:15 PM
  #611
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Just read the transcript for Gary Bettman's "state of the league" press conference.

I am always surprised at how well spoken he is and just how strong his business savvy really is. Say what you want about Bettman, but the guy is good at what he does (sans lockouts).

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/...-and-more.html

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06-05-2014, 08:58 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Did you ignore the Zetterberg/Levavalier comparison because it inconvenienced your position?
It actually bolsters my argument while at the same time missing the point.

For starters I love how you left off the 9th year of Zetterberg's contract labeling it a cap reducing year. In what math equation does a 7mil salary help get a players cap hit down to 6mil cap hit? His contract was 9 years of 7mil or more then 3 cap reducing years. So its a total of 67.65mil not 60.65mil and a 8.44mil cap hit over 8 years not the 7.5mil you portrayed it at. It seems to me you cut that year off to inflate the difference between their salaries.

Second I didn't say they wouldn't take a discount. I said they wouldn't take a 8yr 64mil deal because that would be a massive discount. I said the discounted salary would be 10mil per. You consider the contract Zetterberg got SIX YEARS AGO as taking a huge discount in that market (even though your numbers where a bit off). That should tell you how foolish it is to think pretty much the same money would be taken in this market 6 years later by Kane/Toews.

Kane/Toews could easily get they league max if they became free agents next summer. That would be 7 years at 14.22mil and 99.54mil in total salary. It could actually be higher when they are free agents since the upper limit will go up after the next season, particularly with the Canadian TV money starting to kick in. Thats the market place I look at when assessing how unrealistic a 8yr 64mil contract is.


Last edited by joshjull: 06-05-2014 at 09:15 PM.
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Old
06-06-2014, 02:47 AM
  #613
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Simpsons/NHL logo mash-ups: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...sign-nhl-logos

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06-06-2014, 08:54 AM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1point21Gigawatts View Post
Just read the transcript for Gary Bettman's "state of the league" press conference.

I am always surprised at how well spoken he is and just how strong his business savvy really is. Say what you want about Bettman, but the guy is good at what he does (sans lockouts).

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/...-and-more.html
Excellent read. Solid Q&A. In particular, great comments on replay review, expansion, etc. Wish someone would have pressed more on inconsistencies in office of player safety and discipline.

Note: in the transcript, his comments on replay review use the word "discreet" when the homophone "discrete" should have been transcribed instead.

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06-06-2014, 09:11 AM
  #615
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Jim Rutherford is Pittsburgh's new GM, per McKenzie.

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06-06-2014, 09:17 AM
  #616
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Jim Rutherford is Pittsburgh's new GM, per McKenzie.
Very surprised, thought it would be Botterill

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06-06-2014, 09:19 AM
  #617
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That old fool...?

There had to be better options out there.

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06-06-2014, 09:19 AM
  #618
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Horrible hire for Pittsburgh. Love it.

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06-06-2014, 09:28 AM
  #619
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Jim Rutherford is Pittsburgh's new GM, per McKenzie.
Sure, its better than hiring Pierre McGuire, but its still a pretty bad hire based on his recent history with Carolina. Basically, you take a guy who was unable to win because he invested too much money in the forward core and has an overrated goalie and put him in charge of fixing a similar situation, except the quality of forwards is greater.

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06-06-2014, 09:58 AM
  #620
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Pronman believes it's because he's done well drafting forwards, which seemed to be Shero's weakness. Rutherford's weakness was drafting defensemen, which won't be an issue anytime soon with the depth Pittsburgh has on the blueline. I'm just surprised they didn't go with one of their younger AGM's (Botterill and Fitzgerald) who seem to be highly thought of elsewhere.

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06-06-2014, 11:11 AM
  #621
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@NicholsOnHockey

Kypreos said on [email protected] a source believed #Pens had offered McGuire GM job. He wanted five-year deal. They offered two. No confirmation.

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06-06-2014, 11:22 AM
  #622
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@NicholsOnHockey

Kypreos said on [email protected] a source believed #Pens had offered McGuire GM job. He wanted five-year deal. They offered two. No confirmation.
What's the standard for a GM offer? 2 years doesn't seem like enough of a commitment, or to really allow a new GM to make his own imprint on the team.

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06-06-2014, 11:42 AM
  #623
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@JoshRimerHockey

Now that Penguins have fired Bylsma, he becomes front runner for Florida Panthers Job.

Hard to argue against this point:
@FriedgeHNIC

Just an astonishing way of doing business. Letting a guy twist in the wind for 21 days then firing him. Brutal.


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06-06-2014, 12:09 PM
  #624
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Pronman believes it's because he's done well drafting forwards, which seemed to be Shero's weakness. Rutherford's weakness was drafting defensemen, which won't be an issue anytime soon with the depth Pittsburgh has on the blueline. I'm just surprised they didn't go with one of their younger AGM's (Botterill and Fitzgerald) who seem to be highly thought of elsewhere.
I'm sure there are other differences as well, but this is a very odd hire IMO. I agree that their AGMs should at least have been given more of a shot, unless they were and it was kept quiet. But McGuire and Rutherford as your two? That's awful. I truly believe the Sabres, Flames, and Canucks have new and exciting GMs picked from a talented pool of AGMs. The Penguins went with a tired member of the old guard. What about a Loiselle, for example? I'm glad the Sabres went early and got TM, and I'll bet CAL and VAN are equally pleased. Maybe Rutherford can capture some old magic, maybe he'll do well with a talented core group, but right now it looks like a pretty lazy and very uninspired selection.

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06-06-2014, 12:13 PM
  #625
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Hard to argue against this point:
@FriedgeHNIC

Just an astonishing way of doing business. Letting a guy twist in the wind for 21 days then firing him. Brutal.
Agreed. A less than inspiring GM choice and absolutely embarrassing treatment of a coach who deserved better. Strange day in the 'Burgh.

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