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Old
03-31-2014, 08:46 PM
  #26
Riptide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 View Post
Schultz has been a hot mess defensively for the past two years and isn't showing much improvement on that.
How much of that his him specifically vs who he's paired with? I can see he's getting regular ice with Ference, Klefbom and was getting regular ice with Schultz. And how much of that is the system that Edmonton is playing?

Remember when Jeff Schultz was playing for Washington? He went from being decent (73 games, 23 pts, +50) to being downright awful the next season when they changed their system. Same with Paul Martin couple years ago. Bylsma tried to get him to play as an offensive guy vs a more defensive role and he stunk the joint out. Next year he changed things up (due to Crosby, Malkin and Staal all missing half the year) and he was a stud (and has been great ever since).

He's also still very young, and it shouldn't be a shock that an offensive D is taking time to learn how to play effective defense at the NHL level... especially when there's no real way to shelter him (either in a pairing, or just in general), and the team as a whole is poor defensively.

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Old
04-01-2014, 12:10 AM
  #27
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There's nothing I trade Staal to Edmonton for outside of Hall and RNH.

Obviously Rangers would have to add, but those are the only two guys that really help the Rangers.

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04-02-2014, 12:34 AM
  #28
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OP value not close at current time.

Closer 1 to 1 might be Stralman or J. Moore.

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04-02-2014, 12:37 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
If Schultz' ceiling is Jack Johnson, I don't trade him straight up for Staal, ever. And that's even as a deadline rental.
Schultz isn't anything like Johnson.. I would argue his ceiling is higher than a 30-40 point defenseman anyways considering he's already close to that. That said I don't see any reason for the Rangers to do this unless they're worried about Staal going to Carolina. And I think the Oilers would have the same problem here..

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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
OP value not close at current time.

Closer 1 to 1 might be Stralman or J. Moore.
That's even further off..

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04-02-2014, 05:34 AM
  #30
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Lul no.

Aren't Carolina's front office trying to trade one of the Staals? Seriously, why would Marc realistically go to Carolina?

And Trxjw is right, we'd want Schultz to play with Staal.

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04-02-2014, 10:53 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Schultz isn't anything like Johnson.. I would argue his ceiling is higher than a 30-40 point defenseman anyways considering he's already close to that. That said I don't see any reason for the Rangers to do this unless they're worried about Staal going to Carolina. And I think the Oilers would have the same problem here..


That's even further off..
Not so much.

I was all into and willing to buy the JSchultz golden boy status, but his play has, for various reasons, seemed to decline. No reason not to believe potential is still there.

I was able to see how Kreider, for example ultimately could not fail, despite the huge screw over he got, IMO from Torts. (Last night couldn't happen to a nicer guy!) But I don't get that JS, who is a valued asset, is so gifted he can't fail.

At present those [Stralman or J. Moore] are closer 1 to 1, and that is an overpayment gamble JS may eventually, in near term, turn into that player. He is not that player now.

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Old
04-02-2014, 12:22 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
How much of that his him specifically vs who he's paired with? I can see he's getting regular ice with Ference, Klefbom and was getting regular ice with Schultz. And how much of that is the system that Edmonton is playing?

Remember when Jeff Schultz was playing for Washington? He went from being decent (73 games, 23 pts, +50) to being downright awful the next season when they changed their system. Same with Paul Martin couple years ago. Bylsma tried to get him to play as an offensive guy vs a more defensive role and he stunk the joint out. Next year he changed things up (due to Crosby, Malkin and Staal all missing half the year) and he was a stud (and has been great ever since).

He's also still very young, and it shouldn't be a shock that an offensive D is taking time to learn how to play effective defense at the NHL level... especially when there's no real way to shelter him (either in a pairing, or just in general), and the team as a whole is poor defensively.
I've watched a bunch of Oiler games this year, don't know why Cold Winter and all.

It isn't Schultz partners that are the problem, its Shultz itself.

He's an instinctive player and that works for him offensively, though I'd argue that he's taken a step back this year.

But defensively he doesn't have the IQ, instinct of feel for the defensive game at all.

I think you might see an improvement if they work on simplifying his game (Hey dummy stand there) but I don't think you'll see massive improvements in him.

He's just going to be that player that you trust on the power play, and in the middle shifts, but you don't want him anywhere near the ice when your defending the lead of playing a tight game. I don't think he's wired for that.

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Old
04-02-2014, 04:19 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 View Post
I've watched a bunch of Oiler games this year, don't know why Cold Winter and all.

It isn't Schultz partners that are the problem, its Shultz itself.

He's an instinctive player and that works for him offensively, though I'd argue that he's taken a step back this year.

But defensively he doesn't have the IQ, instinct of feel for the defensive game at all.

I think you might see an improvement if they work on simplifying his game (Hey dummy stand there) but I don't think you'll see massive improvements in him.

He's just going to be that player that you trust on the power play, and in the middle shifts, but you don't want him anywhere near the ice when your defending the lead of playing a tight game. I don't think he's wired for that.
Then you're doing better than me. Being a Pens fan living in the west I have the chance to watch a bunch of Oilers games... but rarely do - they're just playing soo poorly.

While I don't think anyone would nominate him (now or down the road) as a great shutdown D... the defensive game can be taught, at least to the point where an offensive D can contribute more than just on the PP. They don't have to be great... they just don't have to be awful.

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Old
04-02-2014, 04:25 PM
  #34
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Staal? hahahahahaha

How about we re-sign Matt Gilroy and trade him to EDM. Same crap player.

How many of these hyped up NCAA undrafteds pan out?

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04-02-2014, 04:32 PM
  #35
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While I don't see the [Rangers] trading Staal for Schultz. I do see a lot of underrating of Schultz going on here. He has the potential to be a top pairing 50 point guy. Scoring at a 40 point pace during his first two years is nothing to scoff at.


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04-02-2014, 04:47 PM
  #36
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I'd love to see the Rangers make this deal!

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Old
04-02-2014, 06:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
To NYR: Justin Schultz

To EDM: Marc Staal

Fair value?
Staal is a much better player

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Old
04-02-2014, 06:49 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Staal? hahahahahaha

How about we re-sign Matt Gilroy and trade him to EDM. Same crap player.

How many of these hyped up NCAA undrafteds pan out?
Schultz was a 2nd round pick FYI.

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Old
04-02-2014, 09:04 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob Fail View Post
Schultz was a 2nd round pick FYI.
He's talking about the hype after between the NCAA and NHL, as to who he'd sign with.

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04-02-2014, 09:19 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
He's talking about the hype after between the NCAA and NHL, as to who he'd sign with.
Well then why does he say undrafted. This does not apply to Schultz.

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Old
04-02-2014, 09:32 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob Fail View Post
Well then why does he say undrafted. This does not apply to Schultz.
I think it's more so a slap at Gilroy and others that haven't, but I think the idea is these guys that come out of the NCAA with all this hype.

He unfortunately lumped Schultz in with guys like that, but you get his point and now you're nitpicking.

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04-02-2014, 09:35 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
I think it's more so a slap at Gilroy and others that haven't, but I think the idea is these guys that come out of the NCAA with all this hype.

He unfortunately lumped Schultz in with guys like that, but you get his point and now you're nitpicking.
Not at all was just pointing out to him Schultz was drafted. you seemed to answer his post like his lawyer. I call that nitpicking

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04-02-2014, 09:55 PM
  #43
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Not at all was just pointing out to him Schultz was drafted. you seemed to answer his post like his lawyer. I call that nitpicking
Really?

What am I nitpicking at?

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Old
04-03-2014, 05:16 AM
  #44
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I'd actually like Schultz as a pickup for the Rangers, but why would EDM realistically trade him? I mean he's absolute garbage defensively, but the Rangers need an elite puckmover. Just no way he give up any of our top 3 D for him.

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:11 PM
  #45
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I'd actually like Schultz as a pickup for the Rangers, but why would EDM realistically trade him? I mean he's absolute garbage defensively, but the Rangers need an elite puckmover. Just no way he give up any of our top 3 D for him.
Justin Schultz isn't an elite puck mover.

Karlsson, Doughty, Keith, OEL, Yandle, Subban, those guys are elite puck movers.

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Old
04-13-2014, 01:51 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
To NYR: Justin Schultz

To EDM: Marc Staal

Fair value?
Schultz stinks until he does something to prove otherwise.

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Old
04-13-2014, 02:20 PM
  #47
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This should be the main reason why Edmonton should be cautions with this... That and NYR doesn't touch this.
Except for the fact that both his brothers are supposedly on the trade market this summer.....

M. Staal has already said he wants to try and get a contract done with the Rangers this summer. This whole Canes thing is overblown.

And even if it WAS true, there is no way we trade him for JS. He'll command a much higher package if traded and we have much more important places of need then a young project d-man. We may as well have just kept MDZ if that was the case. He's the same age as JS and IMO a better player.

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04-13-2014, 05:21 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I'd actually like Schultz as a pickup for the Rangers, but why would EDM realistically trade him? I mean he's absolute garbage defensively, but the Rangers need an elite puckmover. Just no way he give up any of our top 3 D for him.
What about something based around Schultz for Brassard?

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04-13-2014, 05:42 PM
  #49
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What about something based around Schultz for Brassard?
No he has been centering our best line this year and will be resigned.

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04-13-2014, 06:11 PM
  #50
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If Schultz was closer to Staal's level, it'd be a great deal, but Staal is currently a much better d-man, and it's not like he's very old. Schultz can absolutely close the gap, but right now, it's not fair for the Rangers.

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