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Should try, I mean really try to convert Eller to winger

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Old
03-28-2014, 05:35 PM
  #76
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
But putting DD at wing would reduce Patches to a 10-15 goal player!!!
We'll put Max at D.

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03-28-2014, 05:37 PM
  #77
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We'll put Max at D.
Pair him with Subban, Patches needs so much help

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03-28-2014, 05:37 PM
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We'll put Max at D.
I want to see PK dress as a forward just one game. One game!

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03-28-2014, 05:51 PM
  #79
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No, Eller should be kept as a center on this team. At worst, he is a good third-line center (even after his bad year this year). I understand the thinking behind moving him to the wing, but I don't see its good fruits at this time.

It seems to me that Eller thrives playing with skilled players, perhaps players more skilled than him. This is why he plays well players with like Andrei K and Chuckie. The problem is, we don't have many wingers with that type of skillset.

Plus, for whatever reason, he seems to have stopped utilizing his stickhandling and playmaking abilities. For him to become the player he is capable of being, he needs to find a way to bring those elements of his game back.

Which leads me to believe that Eller simply needs confidence. He needs to believe that he is actually able to do what he once thought he could do. Because at this point, he plays like a grinder. Martin and Therrien are partly to blame here in my opinion; however, Eller is also at fault. He isn't 20 years old anymore, he needs to work on his mental fitness as much as he works on his physical fitness.

If we hope to do well in the playoffs (and I suspect that we will), we will need solid contribution from him. I like his play as of late.

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03-28-2014, 05:57 PM
  #80
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Never got the opportunity. While Lars has not produced this year, he hasn't really gotten the opportunities.
He's had better quality linemates and weaker quality competition, with more power play and even strength minutes then last year.

Yup.. no opportunities.

Eller, himself, would admit to you that he's not played up to his level this year. He's capable of much more in the same role.

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03-28-2014, 06:00 PM
  #81
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No, Eller should be kept as a center on this team. At worst, he is a good third-line center (even after his bad year this year). I understand the thinking behind moving him to the wing, but I don't see its good fruits at this time.

It seems to me that Eller thrives playing with skilled players, perhaps players more skilled than him. This is why he plays well players with like Andrei K and Chuckie. The problem is, we don't have many wingers with that type of skillset.

Plus, for whatever reason, he seems to have stopped utilizing his stickhandling and playmaking abilities. For him to become the player he is capable of being, he needs to find a way to bring those elements of his game back.

Which leads me to believe that Eller simply needs confidence. He needs to believe that he is actually able to do what he once thought he could do. Because at this point, he plays like a grinder. Martin and Therrien are partly to blame here in my opinion; however, Eller is also at fault. He isn't 20 years old anymore, he needs to work on his mental fitness as much as he works on his physical fitness.

If we hope to do well in the playoffs (and I suspect that we will), we will need solid contribution from him. I like his play as of late.
I think he can still be good at center too but what do we do then?

Do we keep Galchenyuk at wing indefinitely?

Trading Pleks is an option but it's a very very risky one. Not one I'm willing to explore at the moment unless the return is fantastic.

I don't know if we'd get much for DD and you're not going to find a center cheaper that can do what he's doing now.

With the logjam at center, I think I like moving Eller to winger the best. I can definitely be swayed. It's a low-risk experiment and if it doesn't work THEN we can explore different options. I just think before we start trading people, we can at least try this out.

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03-28-2014, 06:20 PM
  #82
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I wouldn't try to convert Eller as a winger. I would trade him for a winger.

He's still relatively young, he has good size and skills, his new RFA contract won't cost that much, and he's still tradable. There's a team out there who will want to play him on their top 6, give him plenty of PP time (something he never had regularly in Montreal) and will hope for 50-60 pts. Of course, we could always say that he could do the same here, but I just dont' think it's going to happen. We'll want to give this icetime to Galchenyuk before we give to Eller, and we would be right to do that.

I honestly don't know who's the real Eller, between the cocky center at the beginning of the season, to the shell of a player he is now. It's a shame, because I certainly like his skill set. I just don't think he fits in our team anymore, and that it would be better for everybody (including for him) if he was traded.


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03-28-2014, 06:26 PM
  #83
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He's had better quality linemates and weaker quality competition, with more power play and even strength minutes then last year.

Yup.. no opportunities.

Eller, himself, would admit to you that he's not played up to his level this year. He's capable of much more in the same role.
You'd have to be quite dishonest to believe that. I've watched all games and the PP minutes Eller gets are the last 20 seconds. At the end of a game, his stats may show 1 minute of PP but it is obviously misleading. As others have mentioned, if Eller would have gotten the same opportunities Desharnais got, he couldn't have failed. In fact, no one would fail in these circumstances.

Eller has no place on that team. He had no place from the moment Therrien showed up and he, Therrien, was very clear on this. Habs don't need him. Next season, they got Desharnais, Plekanec, Briere and Galchenyuk. I don't know why Lars was nervous on trade deadline when the best thing that could happen for his career would be in fact a trade.

Of course, his value couldn't be any worse but Bergevin can only blame himself. He had offers but he chose to stay put.

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03-28-2014, 06:31 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
He's had better quality linemates and weaker quality competition, with more power play and even strength minutes then last year.

Yup.. no opportunities.

Eller, himself, would admit to you that he's not played up to his level this year. He's capable of much more in the same role.
you have to come better than that. You can't be serious.

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03-28-2014, 07:02 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
you have to come better than that. You can't be serious.
Why is it that you can use advanced statistics to bash Desharnais, but when advanced statistics are used to prove something against Eller, you quickly shrug them off?

Pretty funny....

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03-28-2014, 07:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
Why is it that you can use advanced statistics to bash Desharnais, but when advanced statistics are used to prove something against Eller, you quickly shrug them off?

Pretty funny....
Why is it that you can use advanced statistics to bash Eller, but when advanced statistics are used to prove something against Desharnais, you quickly shrug them off?

EDIT: LOL at advanced stats are used to "bash" DD but to "prove things" against Eller!!

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03-28-2014, 07:36 PM
  #87
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This should've been his coming out party. His coach held him back.
Sorry, but that's purely speculative.

And it also sort of suggest that Eller wanted to celebrate his gayness and Therrien did not like it!


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03-28-2014, 07:43 PM
  #88
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Sorry, but that's purely speculative.

And it also sort of suggest that Eller wanted to celebrate his gayness and Therrien did not like it!

Well sure it's speculative. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

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03-28-2014, 07:51 PM
  #89
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Why is it that you can use advanced statistics to bash Desharnais, but when advanced statistics are used to prove something against Eller, you quickly shrug them off?

Pretty funny....
I'm going to give you some time to think about what you just typed.

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03-28-2014, 07:55 PM
  #90
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Our three C's must be Chucky-Plek and Eller, no one else.

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03-28-2014, 08:05 PM
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Sorry, but that's purely speculative.

And it also sort of suggest that Eller wanted to celebrate his gayness and Therrien did not like it!
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Well sure it's speculative. Not that there's anything wrong with that...
The bold text is just some sort of a secondary discussion we're having or what?

But, on a more serious note, I do have a problem with how much people are willing to be speculative with Eller. It's never his fault, he'll always, always do better next year etc. etc.

That thread I dug out from pre-season is actually hilarious. About 90% of you were completely wrong about Eller. Even I overestimated his production (I predicted 30-40 points). Yet, here we are and no one is willing to admit that maybe, maybe Eller is not as good as predicted.

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03-28-2014, 08:20 PM
  #92
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The bold text is just some sort of a secondary discussion we're having or what?

But, on a more serious note, I do have a problem with how much people are willing to be speculative with Eller. It's never his fault, he'll always, always do better next year etc. etc.

That thread I dug out from pre-season is actually hilarious. About 90% of you were completely wrong about Eller. Even I overestimated his production (I predicted 30-40 points). Yet, here we are and no one is willing to admit that maybe, maybe Eller is not as good as predicted.
It's practically a fact that Therrien isn't a fan of Eller since day 1. Maybe he's another Kostitsyn who has all the tools but no toolbox but even then he's still a solid third line center who can win faceoffs, be physical and kill penalties. I don't think Eller is as good as he was at the start of the season but I don't think he's as bad as he's been in the last 3 months statistically. I think it's something in between like his production from last season.

When Eller gets given constant PP minutes and solid linemates on a consistent basis then you can throw in the towel and label him as nothing more than a third line center, until then all we can do is argue his potential. Let's not pretend that he's the only one putting up disappointing numbers. I'm sure under a team like the Leafs or the Flyers, he'd get a lot of points.

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03-28-2014, 08:28 PM
  #93
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It's practically a fact that Therrien isn't a fan of Eller since day 1. Maybe he's another Kostitsyn who has all the tools but no toolbox but even then he's still a solid third line center who can win faceoffs, be physical and kill penalties. I don't think Eller is as good as he was at the start of the season but I don't think he's as bad as he's been in the last 3 months statistically. I think it's something in between like his production from last season.
See the problem, right there? Last year was not 'in between' for Eller. It was his best year. And if I wanted to be malicious, I'd add that it was in a shortened, flukey season.

But yeah, HF Habs thinks last year was 'average' for Eller.


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03-28-2014, 08:34 PM
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See the problem, right there? Last year was not 'in between' for Eller. It was his best year. And if I wanted to be malicious, I'd add that it was in a shortened, flukey season.

But yeah, HF Habs thinks last year was 'average' for Eller.

His best year of a small sample... Previously to that he had shown progression every season. As bad as his stats may be (that are somewhat inflated by Bourque having zero finish whatsoever), he's shown progression in other parts of his game (faceoffs, utilizing his body). How do you know that Lars Eller won't repeat last season? He was shooting at 8.2% so it's not like he had a unsustainable shooting percentage la David Clarkson/Joffrey Lupul. Nazem Kadri went through the same thing earlier this season and he bounced back and you could discredit his season too since it was a shortened season. Remember how people used to make fun of Tyler Bozak? This year's he's taken the next step in his game and he's 28 years old. Don't underestimate what confidence and experience can do to a player. Lars Eller is far from a perfect player in terms of decision making but that's what differentiates elite players from good ones. I don't think Eller will ever be a first line center but I see him as a 2nd line center in his prime and a lite version of Mikko Koivu.

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03-28-2014, 08:38 PM
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See the problem, right there? Last year was not 'in between' for Eller. It was his best year. And if I wanted to be malicious, I'd add that it was in a shortened, flukey season.

But yeah, HF Habs thinks last year was 'average' for Eller.

What are you trying to get at? Obviously last year was his best year offensively. Eller has proven that he can produce with good linemates in the past (AKost and Moen & Galchenyuk/Gallagher) when given the opportunity. His offensive play has fallen of a cliff this year but it doesn't help playing with grinders and struggling players like Bourque to get back on track. Plus Therrien never lets him play on the first or second wave of the powerplay so he can't produce on the PP either.

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03-28-2014, 08:48 PM
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His best year of a small sample... Previously to that he had shown progression every season. As bad as his stats may be (that are somewhat inflated by Bourque having zero finish whatsoever), he's shown progression in other parts of his game (faceoffs, utilizing his body). How do you know that Lars Eller won't repeat last season? He was shooting at 8.2% so it's not like he had a unsustainable shooting percentage la David Clarkson/Joffrey Lupul. Nazem Kadri went through the same thing earlier this season and he bounced back and you could discredit his season too since it was a shortened season. Remember how people used to make fun of Tyler Bozak? This year's he's taken the next step in his game and he's 28 years old. Don't underestimate what confidence and experience can do to a player. Lars Eller is far from a perfect player in terms of decision making but that's what differentiates elite players from good ones. I don't think Eller will ever be a first line center but I see him as a 2nd line center in his prime and a lite version of Mikko Koivu.
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What are you trying to get at? Obviously last year was his best year offensively. Eller has proven that he can produce with good linemates in the past (AKost and Moen & Galchenyuk/Gallagher) when given the opportunity. His offensive play has fallen of a cliff this year but it doesn't help playing with grinders and struggling players like Bourque to get back on track. Plus Therrien never lets him play on the first or second wave of the powerplay so he can't produce on the PP either.
I once had a co-worker who was incredible at finding excuses for whatever happened to him. You wouldn't believe the stuff he could come up with to explain why things didn't work out as expected.

He sounded just like you guys.

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03-28-2014, 08:51 PM
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I once had a co-worker who was incredible at finding excuses for whatever happened to him. You wouldn't believe the stuff he could come up with to explain why things didn't work out as expected.

He sounded just like you guys.
Not making excuses for him. Eller has not played very well this year. I'm simply rationalizing the factors that can be attributed to his poor play.

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03-28-2014, 08:55 PM
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Not making excuses for him. Eller has not played very well this year. I'm simply rationalizing the factors that can be attributed to his poor play.
That. Exactly that!

Rationalizing why thing didn't go well. An elaborated way of saying: hey, it's not his fault.

I've got news for you: it might not go well next year either. What's gonna be the rational angle, then?

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03-28-2014, 09:03 PM
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That. Exactly that!

Rationalizing why thing didn't go well. An elaborated way of saying: hey, it's not his fault.

I've got news for you: it might not go well next year either. What's gonna be the rational angle, then?
I've got news for you: it might go well for him next year.

Who knows? You say no, I say yes. Only time will tell really.

Any twit with a set of eyes can see that Eller has struggled. Not calling you a twit, just saying, it's a very easy observation to make. But you do want to get to the root of a problem in order to fix it right? So you need to ask questions as to what went wrong with Eller, and I'm sure there's a bunch of factors that contribute to his level of play.

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03-28-2014, 09:21 PM
  #100
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I think he can still be good at center too but what do we do then?

Do we keep Galchenyuk at wing indefinitely?

Trading Pleks is an option but it's a very very risky one. Not one I'm willing to explore at the moment unless the return is fantastic.

I don't know if we'd get much for DD and you're not going to find a center cheaper that can do what he's doing now.

With the logjam at center, I think I like moving Eller to winger the best. I can definitely be swayed. It's a low-risk experiment and if it doesn't work THEN we can explore different options. I just think before we start trading people, we can at least try this out.
No, I want Galchenyuk as a center by next year or I will be a very unhappy man. Now that I think about it, we may be forced to move Eller to wing. I was thinking that he should be our 4th line center until Galchenyuk is ready to take over DD's spot, so we could trade DD, and move Eller to the third line.

But that could take a while, so moving ELler to wing may be our best option. I am not a fan of trading Eller, however. I admit that it's partly because I just really like the guy. But it's also because I don't think we will get much in return (perhaps we could get Zack Kassian for him?) unless it' a package deal.

Plus, I don't see the point of moving him to the wing unless Galchenyuk will be centering him and Gallagher for the whole season, something I'm not sure Therrien would do.

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