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Old
03-28-2014, 01:17 PM
  #51
sandysan
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Originally Posted by HeShootsHeScores View Post
First we needed physical players, then we had to hire a fighter to protect the physical players, then we needed more of those players, then we needed an enforcer to protect those physical caracter players, then we had to add big players on D to team up with the enforcer... And now this thread?

When is this crap gonna end?!
When we don't have more miniscule ( sorry vertically challenged) forwards than the entire western conference?

in other words, not anytime soon.

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03-28-2014, 01:20 PM
  #52
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Whiskey - try and refrain from talking when you don't know what you're talking about. In the summer, BGL said Parros wasn't a good fighter, and wouldn't be able to serve as protector/enforcer because of this. I agree with him - he's not a good fighter (pre-Montreal). Where BGL was wrong, was that Parros was worse than imagined. It's gotten to the point whenever he's on the ice, everyone cringes when drops the gloves. He's made the team MORE vulnerable, not less.
I know what I'm talking about, it's the likes of you who take what BGL has to say that don't.

He's an attention starved non-player. He couldn't skate, he had a bad back and he wouldn't fight. Parros fought as much as he could for us and he, somehow, was a better skater than BGL.

I'll give him this: No one was afraid of Parros as much as they were BGL because yes, BGL was the biggest, baddest player in the league in terms of image. But as the season went on and we saw just how useless BGL really was, it didn't matter that he was the undisputed heavyweight, he'd refuse to fight.

Parros hasn't played in some time and it's because of his concussion issues. His career is likely over. There was no point to this thread and there is never any point to listening to Laraque.

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03-28-2014, 01:31 PM
  #53
Gustave
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
do you seriously think that deterrents can go back in time? weise is getting pushed in the numbers regardless. If parros comes a knocking, perhaps next time he reconsiders. If its Moen again, what are the real consequences of running a hab in the numbers? you get to injure a player for the mean and the dessert is you have to answer to someone, at worst, where its even money?


fighters are there to calm things down going forward, I'm sure that fleischman will be more careful around gorges if white is on the ice.

and this has nothing to do with strategic or staged of whatever the descriptor du hour you fellas are using today. This is standing up for a teammate, where you want to send the message that you will have to pay for transgressions. If that payment is pocket change, who is going to be afraid that the account is due?
I'd like to point out that I'm for keeping the fighting in the NHL. I DO think it serves it's purpose: policing the game.

Now, the question is pertaining to goons preventing, or as you say correctly, deter the cheap stuff from getting repeatedly done to the same team. My point or opinion is that we have the facts right in front of us. Players will smoke other players even after getting in a fight afterwards with goons or toughs.

Just as an example, Emelin got in a fight against arguably the toughest guy out there in Chara after his act on Seguin and managed to plaster Lucic just this past week. It didn't change is approach even after the scuffle. He'll continue to take out anyone he pleases and possibly injure a couple in the process. He won't be deterred by having to fight, metal plates notwithstanding.

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Old
03-28-2014, 01:36 PM
  #54
HeShootsHeScores
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
When we don't have more miniscule ( sorry vertically challenged) forwards than the entire western conference?

in other words, not anytime soon.
I don't know, i think at this point we have pretty much a good combo of size and talent.the lines are well balanced so players height doesn't appear to be a problem. Only team that can hurt us is the cavemen bruins.

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03-28-2014, 01:39 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by izzy75 View Post
Laraque was talking about the post-season... the season where everything turns up a few notches.

I thought I was clear about that qualifier.
There remains about 10 games before the playoffs start, we're at the very end of the season. Don't you think if the team was all banged up it would start to show? Or do you believe they'll become all banged up all of sudden because the playoffs start?

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03-28-2014, 01:41 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Bloumeister View Post
No, what you/Laraque said is:

Laraque said that teams that can't enforce properly, take it on the chin - quite literally - by having to absorb physical abuse all season. He claims those teams start the playoffs with a disadvantage - banged-up and injured. Kinda sounds like out Montreal Canadians.

Being banged-up after a grinding 82-game season is pretty much a given. Some teams will feel it more than others, and size is obviously a factor, but is an enforcer some sort of talisman that protects his teammates from feeling the war and tear of 6 months of travelling, practicing and playing one of the most physically demanding sport on the face of this planet?

I'd like the OP to make a list of the enforcers on all Cup-winning teams since the lockout, explain how they prevented their team from being banged-up, and show how instrumental they were during that Cup run.

2006 - Hurricanes

2007 - Ducks

2008 - Red Wings

2009 - Penguins

2010 - Blackhawks

2011 - Bruins

2012 - Kings

2013 - Blackhawks

Parros played for the ducks.




But seriously fighting is part of the game, it entertains the fans and it gives the players on the bench something to cheer for, but in no way is it instrumental in getting a SC.

edit: And players dont get banged up because theres a lack of fighting it makes no sense.

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03-28-2014, 01:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HeShootsHeScores View Post
I don't know, i think at this point we have pretty much a good combo of size and talent. the lines are well balanced so players height doesn't appear to be a problem. Only team that can hurt us is the cavemen bruins.
More than a few posters say this, I wonder how does the reasoning go? It does not seem to be backed up by the rest of pro hockey -- the Habs have the smallest team in the NHL, we are currently icing SIX guys who are 5'9" or less; when the entire West Con has only ONE guy that short.

Totally agree about the broons although what you wrote is something of an insult to cavemen.

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03-28-2014, 01:45 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
when the entire West Con has only ONE guy that short.
Mike Cammaleri
Ryan Ellis

Edit: are there any others? BTW, there's no way Ellis is 5'10". He's a shrimp.


Last edited by Gustave: 03-28-2014 at 01:54 PM.
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Old
03-28-2014, 01:46 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Parros played for the ducks.

I know. That's why I even went as far as listing the Cup-winning teams. Wanted to give the OP a fighting chance

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03-28-2014, 01:51 PM
  #60
sandysan
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Originally Posted by HeShootsHeScores View Post
I don't know, i think at this point we have pretty much a good combo of size and talent.the lines are well balanced so players height doesn't appear to be a problem. Only team that can hurt us is the cavemen bruins.
if good combo of size = decidely way too small, you might be on to something there.

We cant compete against big puck possesion teams which in addition to the bruins, includes pretty much most of the west. in fact I think that right now the only team from the east who has a chance against the western teams ( even if they kill each other to get to the SCF) is the bruins ( I just threw up a little in my mouth right there)

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03-28-2014, 01:56 PM
  #61
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Essentially: Players like Prust get injured from fighting meaningless fights so it's best to get someone to fight meaningless fights rather than avoiding a meaningless fight? Alright then.

Enforcers will NEVER be on at same time as our skilled guys, that's basically a man disadvantage. If the time a chara smashes paciorettys head into a stanchion arrives the enforcer will be on bench watching it happen and will get on the ice when the guy has been kicked out of the game. Fantastic.

I understand that fighters with skill make those around them a little bigger but they do not prevent injuries. That's a fallacy.

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03-28-2014, 01:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post

Now, the question is pertaining to goons preventing, or as you say correctly, deter the cheap stuff from getting repeatedly done to the same team. My point or opinion is that we have the facts right in front of us. Players will smoke other players even after getting in a fight afterwards with goons or toughs.

Just as an example, Emelin got in a fight against arguably the toughest guy out there in Chara after his act on Seguin and managed to plaster Lucic just this past week. It didn't change is approach even after the scuffle. He'll continue to take out anyone he pleases and possibly injure a couple in the process. He won't be deterred by having to fight, metal plates notwithstanding.
really, these guys are somehow immune to being repeatedly and forcefuully punched in the face ? That they, as participants in a sport dripping with machismo, are perfectly fine with being publically and visibly be made to be submissive ? why dont more guys turtle and what happens o players that do ?

And chara is mr huggy bear, he aint close to the top toughies. And if elemlin wants to lay on questionable hits and think the face plate protects him, good luck with that. What you are advocating, perhaps without even knowing it, is simply to not only accept but to embolden the rats.

Irrespective of how the hypothetical fight with parros went, we still have moen on the ice rather than on the mend.

the rules say that heavies dont go with guys below their weight class unless they do something egregious. in these instances, weight classes get tossed AS THEY SHOULD because if you want to play loosey goosey with your stick and the only reprecussions you face is an even money fight, then the sticks get increasingly loosey-goosey.

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03-28-2014, 02:01 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Mike Cammaleri
Ryan Ellis

Edit: are there any others? BTW, there's no way Ellis is 5'10". He's a shrimp.
Well then the Habs are a shrimp salad.

No others, just one in the West. (Also no way DD is 5'7" )

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03-28-2014, 02:03 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Essentially: Players like Prust get injured from fighting meaningless fights so it's best to get someone to fight meaningless fights rather than avoiding a meaningless fight? Alright then.

Enforcers will NEVER be on at same time as our skilled guys, that's basically a man disadvantage. If the time a chara smashes paciorettys head into a stanchion arrives the enforcer will be on bench watching it happen and will get on the ice when the guy has been kicked out of the game. Fantastic.

I understand that fighters with skill make those around them a little bigger but they do not prevent injuries. That's a fallacy.
so if parros steps up for a weise, how does moen get injured ?
if parros takes on the heavies to allow prust to punch in his weight class, how does that hurt prust ?

The notion that enforcers have some sort of magical ability to go back in time and prevent things is only advanced by people who dont understand the game. You run one of our little guys, if you dont get tossed you are going to have to line up against us sometime, and if we are willing to go, your unwillingness is noted, and ignored and the issue is pressed.

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03-28-2014, 02:05 PM
  #65
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Well then the Habs are a shrimp salad.

No others, just one in the West. (Also no way DD is 5'7" )
OT: Worst listing ever is Scott Gomez at 5'11" 200lbs. Outright lie.

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03-28-2014, 02:05 PM
  #66
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so if parros steps up for a weise, how does moen get injured ?
if parros takes on the heavies to allow prust to punch in his weight class, how does that hurt prust ?

The notion that enforcers have some sort of magical ability to go back in time and prevent things is only advanced by people who dont understand the game. You run one of our little guys, if you dont get tossed you are going to have to line up against us sometime, and if we are willing to go, your unwillingness is noted, and ignored and the issue is pressed.
You think the guy would've fought Parros?!?!? He would've walked away.

Besides teams often scratch heavies when other team doesn't dress one. Shows their importance...

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03-28-2014, 02:14 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You think the guy would've fought Parros?!?!? He would've walked away.

Besides teams often scratch heavies when other team doesn't dress one. Shows their importance...
you run a hab in the numbers, or run the golaie, your right of refusal is revoked ( as it should be).

Drop the gloves or not, its your choice but that choice has ZERO to do with whether parros drops his and starts throwing.

and for the last, i'm fine with that. I didnt need to see parros play against the fight adverse wings. but against a team like the bruins who have a real heavy, if we dont dress parros then the guys we do have have to fight out of their weight class which means repeated and perpetual beatings of the habs. You throw in parros, everyone else slides down on in the pecking order and even if parros loses, if the bell rings for the other guys we are much better situated.

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03-28-2014, 02:16 PM
  #68
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I agree there were some games that we got outplayed along the boards and had trouble keepimg the puck and win these battles. Most of this happened earlier this season when dd and maxpac were playing carelessly and sucked. We have small players that are very competitve along the boards. I'm not looking st the ingredients, but at the picture of the finished product, and i like it. Briere is a po specialist, dd line is great, gio in a third line pk guy is perfect...

Anyway i don't think this thread highlights a curremt problem for the habs. It used to, but not right now.

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03-28-2014, 02:30 PM
  #69
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The fourth line is on againt Boston, weise gets run and Moen does the right thing and stands up for a teammate (the other winger was eller). If parros is on the fourth you think Moen is the one standing up? if parrots goes, whether he would have fared better than Moen is conjecture (although very likely he would) but whatnis not conjecture is that we don't loose weise and Moen (who is more valuable than parros) in the span of a minute.

so the message we are sending is that if you take liberties against the jabs and are compelled to fight, the fight will be at best even money. How does that work as a deterrent?
(a) Parros was on the ice a couple of months ago (before the Olympic break) when.... I want to say Doug Hamilton, but I can't remember for certain... drove Prust into the boards from behind. Prust got up, challenged the Bruin (who declined) so Prust skated up the ice to get back in the play. Shawn Thornton met Prust about halfway up the ice and picked a fight with Prust. Parros didn't step in to get revenge on Hamilton for Prust. He didn't step in between Thornton (a heavyweight) and Prust (a light heavyweight at best). Just just kind of stood there, grooming his mustache.

(b) If the fourth line with Parros is out against Boston that hit doesn't happen because when Parros on the ice we're lucky if the puck reaches the neutral zone - we certainly wouldn't be forechecking like Weise was. I guess that ultimately makes you right, but for a very different reason than you would suggest.

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03-28-2014, 02:34 PM
  #70
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izzy75, check...sandysan, check...gusfring, check...MaxPac, check...anybody missing?

Copy and paste as needed, friends:

"But some teams who had/have enforcers have won the Stanley Cup!"

"But enforcers bring intangibles which means their teammates play tougher and get injured less frequently!"

"But if you'd ever played hockey before, you'd understand why enforcers are so important!"

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03-28-2014, 02:38 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
you run a hab in the numbers, or run the golaie, your right of refusal is revoked ( as it should be).

Drop the gloves or not, its your choice but that choice has ZERO to do with whether parros drops his and starts throwing.

and for the last, i'm fine with that. I didnt need to see parros play against the fight adverse wings. but against a team like the bruins who have a real heavy, if we dont dress parros then the guys we do have have to fight out of their weight class which means repeated and perpetual beatings of the habs. You throw in parros, everyone else slides down on in the pecking order and even if parros loses, if the bell rings for the other guys we are much better situated.
And at what point this season has Parros done anything resembling that? I've seen it once - once this year. And it was when Tinordi grabbed Torres.

The idea of Parros dropping the gloves and just feeding someone his fists is an attractive one, but it doesn't happen that often in a game situation and when it does it's usually a negative for our team (remember last year when Chara got an instigator after chasing down Emelin - and we scored on the ensuing PP).

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03-28-2014, 02:39 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by HeShootsHeScores View Post
Anyway i don't think this thread highlights a curremt problem for the habs. It used to, but not right now.
Holy cow man... the thread, and BGL's comments, were about the PLAYOFFS!!!!!!

If we get bounced early, and out manned, then BGL is right again.

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03-28-2014, 02:40 PM
  #73
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izzy75, check...sandysan, check...gusfring, check...MaxPac, check...anybody missing?

Copy and paste as needed, friends:

"But some teams who had/have enforcers have won the Stanley Cup!"

"But enforcers bring intangibles which means their teammates play tougher and get injured less frequently!"

"But if you'd ever played hockey before, you'd understand why enforcers are so important!"
Montreal fans whining about how big and mean other players are... check!

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03-28-2014, 02:42 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by idk View Post
The idea of Parros dropping the gloves and just feeding someone his fists is an attractive one, but it doesn't happen that often
Which is why one can only hope Tinordi channels his inner Chara and provides Montreal with something we've been missing for a long, long time.

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03-28-2014, 02:46 PM
  #75
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Well then the Habs are a shrimp salad.

No others, just one in the West. (Also no way DD is 5'7" )
5'9" and under playing a regular shift in the Western Conference (found at tsn.ca):

ANA- Perreault
CGY- Byron, Cammalleri, Hudler
CHI- Bouchard, Kane
EDM- Arcobello
MIN- Spurgeon
NSH- Bourque, Ellis
VAN- Shroeder (only 22 gp)

MTL- Desharnais (5'6"), Gallagher, Gionta, Bouillon, Weaver

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