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Old
03-08-2017, 01:09 PM
  #101
The Old Guy
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Maybe it's just me, but the idea of applying the "elite" label to a guy with 8 career goals seems a bit premature.
I understand what you are saying, but he sure looks like a different type of goal scorer than Calvert or Jenner.

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03-08-2017, 01:31 PM
  #102
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I understand what you are saying, but he sure looks like a different type of goal scorer than Calvert or Jenner.
No doubt but I think it's just reasonable to be careful with the term "elite."

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Old
03-08-2017, 02:01 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Maybe it's just me, but the idea of applying the "elite" label to a guy with 8 career goals seems a bit premature.

For that matter, the notion that Atkinson or Saad are elite goal scorers is pretty absurd as well.
He's tied for 5th in the league in goals. He's ahead of guys like Kane, Malkin, Ovechkin, and Tarasenko. Over the last three years he's 18th in the NHL in goals scored at 79, one ahead of Corey Perry's 78. That's pretty much the definition of elite.

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03-08-2017, 02:17 PM
  #104
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Elite
Noun

a type, approximately 10-point in printing-type size, widely used in typewriters and having 12 characters to the inch.

Hard to argue with that.

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03-08-2017, 02:47 PM
  #105
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I certainly consider Corey Perry to be an elite scorer and an exceptional pain in the ass. If Cam has 1 more goal than him in the past 3 years I would say that Cam has to be "elite" as well. This doesn't mean Hall of famer, but "elite" when compared to other current players.

Corey Perry and Getzlaf have done some amazing things together for the Ducks these past dozen years. His stats compare very favorably to another London Knight named Rick Nash.

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Old
03-08-2017, 04:51 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Hipster Letestu View Post
He's tied for 5th in the league in goals. He's ahead of guys like Kane, Malkin, Ovechkin, and Tarasenko. Over the last three years he's 18th in the NHL in goals scored at 79, one ahead of Corey Perry's 78. That's pretty much the definition of elite.
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggr...ts,gamesPlayed


Over the past 4 years, Atkinson is #T22 in goals scored. Certainly very good. Saad is #T28 during the same period. One would have to consider Blake Wheeler and Sean Monahan "elite" as well.

In 15-16 he was T36th.
In 14-15 he was T68th.
In 13-14 he was T 81st.

Calling someone "elite" who's never cracked the top 35 in goal scoring other than this season is quite a stretch. The Corey Perry argument isn't a strong one.

FWIW, Ryan Johansen is #T21 in points over the same 4 year period. He's finished 34th and 16th in different seasons over that span. He also has 4 more points than the "elite" Corey Perry over the 4 year period.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-08-2017 at 04:57 PM.
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Old
03-08-2017, 06:09 PM
  #107
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Oliver is winning games for this team- arguably the team's best offensive player the past 2 wks - and showing signs of being a grade A sniper. He's working hard too. The question for this year is, especially given his youth, will teams be able to rub him out once they start focusing on him.

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03-08-2017, 07:17 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggr...ts,gamesPlayed


Over the past 4 years, Atkinson is #T22 in goals scored. Certainly very good. Saad is #T28 during the same period. One would have to consider Blake Wheeler and Sean Monahan "elite" as well.

In 15-16 he was T36th.
In 14-15 he was T68th.
In 13-14 he was T 81st.

Calling someone "elite" who's never cracked the top 35 in goal scoring other than this season is quite a stretch. The Corey Perry argument isn't a strong one.

FWIW, Ryan Johansen is #T21 in points over the same 4 year period. He's finished 34th and 16th in different seasons over that span. He also has 4 more points than the "elite" Corey Perry over the 4 year period.
Now you're just stretching the time frame to fit your argument. He's done nothing but score goals at every level, Jr/Sr in college: 81 GP 61-44-105. AHL: 89 GP 49-38-87. He's put up 20+ goals every full season in the NHL. He's improved to 30 this season, and it's not like he's scored a bunch of fluke goals. There is no reason to believe that at 27 years old he won't continue at that level or improve. This is the Bjorkstrand thread though, so I'll cease this discussion in here.

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03-08-2017, 08:56 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Hipster Letestu;129249813[B
]Now you're just stretching the time frame to fit your argument[/B]. He's done nothing but score goals at every level, Jr/Sr in college: 81 GP 61-44-105. AHL: 89 GP 49-38-87. He's put up 20+ goals every full season in the NHL. He's improved to 30 this season, and it's not like he's scored a bunch of fluke goals. There is no reason to believe that at 27 years old he won't continue at that level or improve. This is the Bjorkstrand thread though, so I'll cease this discussion in here.
Just expanded it by a year out of curiosity.

I'm not saying that he's not very good. He is. Obviously. Given that he's never even cracked the top 30 before, I don't find his performance elite. Maybe just a matter of semantics.

I'll guess that he's peaked this season. Most scorers do so by their mid to late 20s.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-08-2017 at 09:11 PM.
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Old
03-08-2017, 09:26 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Just expanded it by a year out of curiosity.

I'm not saying that he's not very good. He is. Obviously. Given that he's never even cracked the top 30 before, I don't find his performance elite. Maybe just a matter of semantics.

I'll guess that he's peaked this season. Most scorers do so by their mid to late 20s.
Agree to a difference of opinion, I saw the all star game - Crosby & Ovechkin are elite - Cam Atkinson was every bit the goal scorer that they were in that exhibition and they were being fed pucks while Cam had to work for his shots.

No problem. Bjork's body of work has only been a few weeks - a little early to say he will lead the team, but he certainly has some tools to contribute and score.

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03-09-2017, 04:50 AM
  #111
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I don't care if Bjorkstrand is elite or if Cam is elite (I don't think he is) but OB seems to have a knack to take the puck, go find some space and let it rip which is a skill set that I'm not sure I've ever seen in a Jacket.
Cam is a good goal scorer no doubt about it but to me he doesn't possess the ability to do what OB does. How it all plays out I'm not sure but for right now I very much like what I see.

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03-09-2017, 10:04 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by EdwardG View Post
Oliver is winning games for this team- arguably the team's best offensive player the past 2 wks - and showing signs of being a grade A sniper. He's working hard too. The question for this year is, especially given his youth, will teams be able to rub him out once they start focusing on him.
That's the beauty of depth. If hes with Hartnell and Gagner he's just as capable of setting them up for rebounds and tap ins by drawing that extra attention or extra guy over to him. I really think he has more potential than Cam.

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03-09-2017, 10:18 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
Agree to a difference of opinion, I saw the all star game - Crosby & Ovechkin are elite - Cam Atkinson was every bit the goal scorer that they were in that exhibition and they were being fed pucks while Cam had to work for his shots.

No problem. Bjork's body of work has only been a few weeks - a little early to say he will lead the team, but he certainly has some tools to contribute and score.
I love Cam but Let's not get carried away when we compare him to Ovechkin. He sets the current bar for elite goal scoring with his last three years posting 51, 53, and 50 goals.

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03-09-2017, 11:04 AM
  #114
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I love Cam but Let's not get carried away when we compare him to Ovechkin. He sets the current bar for elite goal scoring with his last three years posting 51, 53, and 50 goals.
Not in question Moe- Ovechkin & Crosby operate at a different level, they are the elite and are sure fire 1st ballot HOF. I don't know how the hell we got to this point - but I think it was my reference to Cam showing he belonged on the ice with them.. and correct me if I am wrong but aren't All Star teams made up of the "better players"?

I like OB.. that kid should dazzle us for years to come. A down side as mentioned is that he is not very big... but most of my favorite players have been his size or shorter.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/columns/stor...st=amber_david


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03-10-2017, 10:18 PM
  #115
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I love Cam but Let's not get carried away when we compare him to Ovechkin. He sets the current bar for elite goal scoring with his last three years posting 51, 53, and 50 goals.
There's elite and there is AO and Stamkos. Let's not confuse the two. Bjorkstrand has a better shot than Cam. Cam has really matured as a player. Let's enjoy both of them.

We are obsessed with elite. We have two elite players right now. Bob and Werenski. Jones could be one. I don't really care about elite players; they are nice to have especially in the playoffs. However you can still win without them. An example to me is the Kings. Never really considered them have elite forwards. Kopitar is a great player, but he's hardly elite status. DD might be the closest and he's on D. Quick as had some good years.

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03-11-2017, 08:32 AM
  #116
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There's elite and there is AO and Stamkos. Let's not confuse the two. Bjorkstrand has a better shot than Cam. Cam has really matured as a player. Let's enjoy both of them.

We are obsessed with elite. We have two elite players right now. Bob and Werenski. Jones could be one. I don't really care about elite players; they are nice to have especially in the playoffs. However you can still win without them. An example to me is the Kings. Never really considered them have elite forwards. Kopitar is a great player, but he's hardly elite status. DD might be the closest and he's on D. Quick as had some good years.
Good post. I am more than happy having a team of contributors rather than one or two elite players and some lessor talent. that is the decision that the salary cap forces you to make, reminescent of us having Nash as a max contract and no center to get him the puck. Clearly the Blue Jackets cannot be stopped by shutting down one player & their talent is pretty evenly distributed on each forward line not to mention the great play we are getting consistently from the D.

In my opinion success in the playoffs can come down to the hot play of the goaltender. Rest Bob, keep him healthy and in shape and lets see how far we can go.

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03-11-2017, 11:39 AM
  #117
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Oliver Bjorkstrand?
OLIVER BJORKSTRAND!

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Old
03-15-2017, 01:52 PM
  #118
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There's elite and there is AO and Stamkos. Let's not confuse the two. Bjorkstrand has a better shot than Cam. Cam has really matured as a player. Let's enjoy both of them.

We are obsessed with elite. We have two elite players right now. Bob and Werenski. Jones could be one. I don't really care about elite players; they are nice to have especially in the playoffs. However you can still win without them. An example to me is the Kings. Never really considered them have elite forwards. Kopitar is a great player, but he's hardly elite status. DD might be the closest and he's on D. Quick as had some good years.
Great rookie season does not equal Elite. I hope the potential we have seen in Z is legit and he in fact is as you describe him, but I'm not there yet.

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03-15-2017, 08:54 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Hipster Letestu View Post
He's tied for 5th in the league in goals. He's ahead of guys like Kane, Malkin, Ovechkin, and Tarasenko. Over the last three years he's 18th in the NHL in goals scored at 79, one ahead of Corey Perry's 78. That's pretty much the definition of elite.
Nah. You can't even begin to claim elite goal scorer without even reaching 40 goals in a season.

He's good, but let's not kid ourselves.

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03-15-2017, 09:05 PM
  #120
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Great rookie season does not equal Elite. I hope the potential we have seen in Z is legit and he in fact is as you describe him, but I'm not there yet.
Werenski has elite skill. Doesn't matter how young or inexperienced he is. But hey, if top 10 in the league as a rookie doesn't convince you I really can't help you. Don't use Z, that's cursed.


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03-16-2017, 09:19 AM
  #121
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Great rookie season does not equal Elite. I hope the potential we have seen in Z is legit and he in fact is as you describe him, but I'm not there yet.
Getting that amount of ice time and responsibility at 19 on a team that went from bottom of the league to near the top after he joined the roster and was made a first line defender it would be hard to not call him elite. The most exciting part is that he should be even better as he gains experience so the Werenski of age 23 should really be amazing.

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03-16-2017, 11:49 AM
  #122
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A tremendous rookie season doesn't = elite player.

Barret Jackman, Aaron Ekblad, and Tyler Myers won Calders. Not elite players.

Werenski has more to show before he's elite.

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03-16-2017, 12:15 PM
  #123
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A tremendous rookie season doesn't = elite player.

Barret Jackman, Aaron Ekblad, and Tyler Myers won Calders. Not elite players.

Werenski has more to show before he's elite.

Agreed. The term "elite" is assigned pretty loosely. It's premature to consider Werenski elite.

That being said, he's obviously loaded for bear in the offensive talent category. With the almost guaranteed improvement that he'll experience defensively, I think it's very safe to categorize #8 as an extremely good young talent whose upside is very considerable.

In 68 games, he's generated one less goal than Ryan Murray has in his entire career.

He's had 172 shots on goal. That's tied for 8th among defensmen and leads all rookie defensemen. Ryan Murray has 212 career shots on goal.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-16-2017 at 12:35 PM.
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03-16-2017, 12:49 PM
  #124
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In 68 games, he's generated one less goal than Ryan Murray has in his entire career.

He's had 172 shots on goal. That's tied for 8th among defensmen and leads all rookie defensemen. Ryan Murray has 212 career shots on goal.

Upon the trade of Prout (which of course had been preceded by the jettisoning of Tyutin, Boll, Campbell), I somewhat sarcastically asked in that thread who on the current Jackets can take up the mantle to be the go-to whipping boy for these Boards.

Over the last week or so, it's become pretty clear to me who has risen from the potential contenders to claim that title.

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03-16-2017, 12:51 PM
  #125
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Upon the trade of Prout (which of course had been preceded by the jettisoning of Tyutin, Boll, Campbell), I somewhat sarcastically asked in that thread who on the current Jackets can take up the mantle to be the go-to whipping boy for these Boards.

Over the last week or so, it's become pretty clear to me who has risen from the potential contenders to claim that title.
I'm sorry that you find mention of Murray's offensive statistics offensive.

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