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Rangers sign Prucha and Holt

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Old
08-17-2005, 11:38 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy
Just wondering what Prucha's position will be.
Is he a true Center or a RW?
Didn't he play LW on the same line as Jagr last season?
What do you guy's think as to where he will fit within this rebuilding team?
The word on him (from the Rodent and others) is that he is a truly versatile player who can line up on either wing or up the middle. He's a righty, too.

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08-18-2005, 01:20 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
Actually, Holt was every bit as good and maybe even better then Montoya last year and should be, at the least, on equal standing for job competition....
Actually, their winning percentages would say otherwise:

Montoya finished fifth in the nation with a winning percentage of .788

Holt finished 31st in the nation with a winning percentage of .568

Now granted, Montoya had a more skilled team in front of him than Holt did, but I won't say that Holt didn't have a good year because he did and the Mavs had the best single season turnaround of any NCAA team last season (thanks in no small part to Holt).

What I don't get is this....are the Rangers REALLY that desperate for goaltenders in their system that they felt it necessary to pull Holt out this early? I understand why Montoya was pulled out early but I'm still trying to figure out the logic of pulling Holt out this early. He still had two more years to go, last season was his breakout season but he has alot more to learn and develop, certainly more than Montoya does. He didn't see the work load in his freshman season that he saw in his sophomore season. The pros are not going allow him to progress at the pace that he can in the NCAA, but rather are going to rush his progress IMO. I'm just wondering if that really was the RIGHT thing to do at this stage. If Holt had another year, like he did last year...then yes, maybe I can see the logic but just one year? Someone please explain this one to me.

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08-18-2005, 01:27 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Nigel Dawes' contract does not kick in until he plays professional hockey.2005-06 is the first year of the three year entry level deal.He wasn't paid an AHL salary to play in Kootenay last season
I had heard differently but perhaps it was his signing bonus. Do you have some sort of source by any chance?

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08-18-2005, 02:23 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
Actually, their winning percentages would say otherwise:

Montoya finished fifth in the nation with a winning percentage of .788

Holt finished 31st in the nation with a winning percentage of .568

Now granted, Montoya had a more skilled team in front of him than Holt did, but I won't say that Holt didn't have a good year because he did and the Mavs had the best single season turnaround of any NCAA team last season (thanks in no small part to Holt).

What I don't get is this....are the Rangers REALLY that desperate for goaltenders in their system that they felt it necessary to pull Holt out this early? I understand why Montoya was pulled out early but I'm still trying to figure out the logic of pulling Holt out this early. He still had two more years to go, last season was his breakout season but he has alot more to learn and develop, certainly more than Montoya does. He didn't see the work load in his freshman season that he saw in his sophomore season. The pros are not going allow him to progress at the pace that he can in the NCAA, but rather are going to rush his progress IMO. I'm just wondering if that really was the RIGHT thing to do at this stage. If Holt had another year, like he did last year...then yes, maybe I can see the logic but just one year? Someone please explain this one to me.
It seems we could have easily found another goalie and left Holt in college. I can only guess they were very happy with his progress while in college--then saw him in their development camp and decided he was ready--and maybe Holt was eager too. I don't know. I would think he's not going to be the main starter in Hartford so hopefully he gets enough games and continues to develop.

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08-18-2005, 08:49 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
I had heard differently but perhaps it was his signing bonus. Do you have some sort of source by any chance?
I don't have a source, but I can validate it. The pro contract doesn't kick in until he joins the organization (ECHL, AHL, NHL or any other pro league the team might assign him to). So in effect Dawes (and Baranka) have three years remaining on their entry level contracts.

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08-18-2005, 09:03 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
What I don't get is this....are the Rangers REALLY that desperate for goaltenders in their system that they felt it necessary to pull Holt out this early? I understand why Montoya was pulled out early but I'm still trying to figure out the logic of pulling Holt out this early. He still had two more years to go, last season was his breakout season but he has alot more to learn and develop, certainly more than Montoya does. He didn't see the work load in his freshman season that he saw in his sophomore season. The pros are not going allow him to progress at the pace that he can in the NCAA, but rather are going to rush his progress IMO. I'm just wondering if that really was the RIGHT thing to do at this stage. If Holt had another year, like he did last year...then yes, maybe I can see the logic but just one year? Someone please explain this one to me.
Well you have to consider that as a 20 year old he is of the same age that you'd expect a goalie to come out of the CHL. He did give up his final two years in college, but it was for a relatively new program (I think they've been playing 4 to 5 years) and for a team that is not considered amongst the better teams in a conference that struggled last season.

He played 37 games last year for the Mavericks, and Valiquette played 35 for the Pack as a back up...I would think he has a good chance to match the game total he was likely to have gotten at UNO against a higher level of competition. He will also have the benefit of working with Benoit Allaire.

Would have he been hurt by staying in UNO...probably not, will he be hurt by moving up to the AHL...I'm not sure, it seems like he might have something to gain.

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08-18-2005, 09:26 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
Would have he been hurt by staying in UNO...probably not
Would the program have allowed him to take his development to the next level?

I'd bet if Labarbera wasn't snatched, Holt would be staying w/ UNO. Sounded like Maloney and Renney really expected Jason to get a shot with the Rangers from what was said at those fan forums. Without him, what are the options? Another UFA? Blackburn?

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08-18-2005, 09:51 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
I would think he has a good chance to match the game total he was likely to have gotten at UNO against a higher level of competition. He will also have the benefit of working with Benoit Allaire.
The two keys for me.

I think this fat bastid might amount to something decent.

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08-18-2005, 02:10 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Would the program have allowed him to take his development to the next level?

I'd bet if Labarbera wasn't snatched, Holt would be staying w/ UNO. Sounded like Maloney and Renney really expected Jason to get a shot with the Rangers from what was said at those fan forums. Without him, what are the options? Another UFA? Blackburn?
I agree, it seems from everything I read and heard that they expected to have Labarbera back and playing in the NHL as a backup before LA stole him away.

Other options? Probably another minor league goaltender who didn't have a contract...

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08-18-2005, 03:26 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
Well you have to consider that as a 20 year old he is of the same age that you'd expect a goalie to come out of the CHL. He did give up his final two years in college, but it was for a relatively new program (I think they've been playing 4 to 5 years) and for a team that is not considered amongst the better teams in a conference that struggled last season.
You don't watch many UNO games do you? Because one, they did not struggle last year. They finished fourth in the CCHA, which was up from 12th in 2003-04. Two, the program will be going into its eighth season this fall. Three, the NCAA is NOT the CHL. Four, just curious how many times have you seen Holt play? I've seen him play about a dozen times, and in both seasons that he played at UNO. I like the kid (I've even made mention of that here and elsewhere on HF before) but I also believe, from the many times I have seen him, particularly this past season that he still has a ways to go....even to be effective at the AHL level. I don't know maybe he'll prove me wrong and become a strater for Hartford this season, though I won't put money on it just yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
He played 37 games last year for the Mavericks, and Valiquette played 35 for the Pack as a back up...I would think he has a good chance to match the game total he was likely to have gotten at UNO against a higher level of competition. He will also have the benefit of working with Benoit Allaire.
First off, you're comparing 37 amateur games to 35 pro, it's totally different. If you're going to make that comparison, you might as well compare the NTDP or the CHL for that matter to the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
Would have he been hurt by staying in UNO...probably not, will he be hurt by moving up to the AHL...I'm not sure, it seems like he might have something to gain.
What makes you absolutely sure he WILL be in Hartford this fall? I'm not saying that there's no chance he won't be because he might, then again he may be assigned to Charlotte (ECHL) as well.

What does he have to gain? It's called money.

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08-18-2005, 03:47 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
Actually, their winning percentages would say otherwise:

Montoya finished fifth in the nation with a winning percentage of .788

Holt finished 31st in the nation with a winning percentage of .568

Now granted, Montoya had a more skilled team in front of him than Holt did, but I won't say that Holt didn't have a good year because he did and the Mavs had the best single season turnaround of any NCAA team last season (thanks in no small part to Holt).

.
Honestly, the winning percentage means very little to me..Montoya's Save percentage was under .900 while Holt's was something like .904..I put alot of stock in that stat....OTOH, Montoya's GAA was better, but probably a little more reflective of the team he was on once again...

ANd I'm not saying Holt doesn't need work, he does..But Montoya needs just as much..And Montoya's cockiness grates on me.......

As for whjy the Rangers signed Holt, I truly beleive they want him to learn under Allaire and be close by (in Hartford) so they can monitor and affect his development...Whether this is smarter then leaving him at UNO, I don't know....

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08-18-2005, 04:20 PM
  #62
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Montoya needs as much work as Holt?

I'll have whatever Melnyk is smoking, cause that's gotta be grade A stuff.

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Old
08-18-2005, 04:35 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
What I don't get is this....are the Rangers REALLY that desperate for goaltenders in their system that they felt it necessary to pull Holt out this early? I understand why Montoya was pulled out early but I'm still trying to figure out the logic of pulling Holt out this early. He still had two more years to go, last season was his breakout season but he has alot more to learn and develop, certainly more than Montoya does. He didn't see the work load in his freshman season that he saw in his sophomore season. The pros are not going allow him to progress at the pace that he can in the NCAA, but rather are going to rush his progress IMO. I'm just wondering if that really was the RIGHT thing to do at this stage. If Holt had another year, like he did last year...then yes, maybe I can see the logic but just one year? Someone please explain this one to me.
I agree completely with this. He is just now starting to come around and he has looked really good in the college game. I think that he was taken out too early and needed at least one more year in the college game. The kid was way raw comming into college and is just now beginning to rub off some of the rough edges. I don't get it at all and I think that it was a very bad move.

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08-18-2005, 04:49 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Montoya needs as much work as Holt?

I'll have whatever Melnyk is smoking, cause that's gotta be grade A stuff.
I watched him in a number of games last year and he absolutley sucked in two of them...His Save percentage also reeked..He doesn't need wolk? What kool aid have you been drinking? Is it Lundmark Lemon?

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08-18-2005, 04:51 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
You don't watch many UNO games do you? Because one, they did not struggle last year. They finished fourth in the CCHA, which was up from 12th in 2003-04. Two, the program will be going into its eighth season this fall. Three, the NCAA is NOT the CHL. Four, just curious how many times have you seen Holt play? I've seen him play about a dozen times, and in both seasons that he played at UNO. I like the kid (I've even made mention of that here and elsewhere on HF before) but I also believe, from the many times I have seen him, particularly this past season that he still has a ways to go....even to be effective at the AHL level. I don't know maybe he'll prove me wrong and become a strater for Hartford this season, though I won't put money on it just yet.
No I probably only saw about 3 or 4 UNO games last year, but I did follow the results and reports on a weekly basis. I realize where they finished and that they won a playoff series...but having watched a lot of CCHA games last year I can tell you the conference struggled as a whole and it is my belief that UNO benefitted from that.

On your point two...okay this will be their eighth season, seems like just yesterday they started

On point three...no the NCAA is not the CHL, but I'm not sure what your point is. That they play fewer games, that the quality isn't as good? Wouldn't those be arguments against him staying at UNO?

On point four...I've probably seen full games from him on about five or six occasions. And yes I agree he has a way to go, but I would argue that he may be ready for the AHL in a backup role where he'll see about the same number of games and have access to one of the games noted goaltending coaches in Allaire.

Quote:
First off, you're comparing 37 amateur games to 35 pro, it's totally different. If you're going to make that comparison, you might as well compare the NTDP or the CHL for that matter to the NHL.

What makes you absolutely sure he WILL be in Hartford this fall? I'm not saying that there's no chance he won't be because he might, then again he may be assigned to Charlotte (ECHL) as well.

What does he have to gain? It's called money.
I am comparing game totals for the sake of showing that he will likely get as much ice time in the pros if he stays with Hartford as he would have at UNO. I obviously am aware that the AHL is of higher quality than the CCHA, but the difference is that I feel that it could be beneficial to him whereas you think that it will hurt him.

I don't think I ever said anywhere that he absolutely will be in Hartford, I think the expectations are at this stage that the Rangers will go into the season with Weekes, Lundqvist, Montoya and Holt on the roster. My belief is that they originally were going to go with Labarbera, but his departure to LA had them re-evaluating their options for the fourth netminder and they chose to sign Holt.

It is possible they sign a fifth goaltender or have Hartford sign one, but I for one am not expecting that...

In terms of what he has to gain, I think he has the opportunity to work with Benoit Allaire and perhaps fast track his pro aspirations. Of course there's money involved, but at the AHL level it's nowhere near as significant as that at the NHL level which is I imagine what he hopes to attain.

This of course is not a no-risk move, I just happen to think it's one that is worth taking...others like yourself obviously disagree and that's fine.

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08-18-2005, 04:53 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
I watched him in a number of games last year and he absolutley sucked in two of them...His Save percentage also reeked..He doesn't need wolk? What kool aid have you been drinking? Is it Lundmark Lemon?
Well Montoya to some extent has always looked that way, but it seemd to me it's always been a case of focus with him. When he gets into the game and is focused he is really a much better goalie, it seemed as an observer that he wasn't as into the games last year (pure speculation on my part).

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08-18-2005, 08:33 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
No I probably only saw about 3 or 4 UNO games last year, but I did follow the results and reports on a weekly basis. I realize where they finished and that they won a playoff series...but having watched a lot of CCHA games last year I can tell you the conference struggled as a whole and it is my belief that UNO benefitted from that.

On your point two...okay this will be their eighth season, seems like just yesterday they started

On point three...no the NCAA is not the CHL, but I'm not sure what your point is. That they play fewer games, that the quality isn't as good? Wouldn't those be arguments against him staying at UNO?

On point four...I've probably seen full games from him on about five or six occasions. And yes I agree he has a way to go, but I would argue that he may be ready for the AHL in a backup role where he'll see about the same number of games and have access to one of the games noted goaltending coaches in Allaire.
NCAA obviously play fewer games and recent history has proven that even the top goalies in our league (i.e. Ryan Miller) need some time to not only adjust to the rigors of playing more games more often but the speed of the game as well. This isn't unique to Holt, but IMO Holt will need a greater adjustment time than say Montoya. Just my opinion.

I don't know much about Allaire's style, but the one thing I'll say is that every goalie develops at a different pace. He may do wonders with Holt or he won't. Will Holt develop faster than Montoya? I don't know, but I will say that Montoya is further ahead of his development at this stage than Holt is. Again, just my opinion based on having watched both of them quite a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
I am comparing game totals for the sake of showing that he will likely get as much ice time in the pros if he stays with Hartford as he would have at UNO. I obviously am aware that the AHL is of higher quality than the CCHA, but the difference is that I feel that it could be beneficial to him whereas you think that it will hurt him.
The main reason why I think it will hurt him (and I've already mentioned this) is that his development will be quickened at the pro level. The pro level isn't going to wait for a long period of time for a player to develop. You know as well as I do that there are many, many players who do very well at the amateur level that don't develop quickly enough for their respective teams and will usually get cut loose or traded or whatever. This is my fear about Holt. UNO isn't interested in rushing his development the way the Rangers are likely to be, because time is money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
I don't think I ever said anywhere that he absolutely will be in Hartford, I think the expectations are at this stage that the Rangers will go into the season with Weekes, Lundqvist, Montoya and Holt on the roster. My belief is that they originally were going to go with Labarbera, but his departure to LA had them re-evaluating their options for the fourth netminder and they chose to sign Holt.

It is possible they sign a fifth goaltender or have Hartford sign one, but I for one am not expecting that...

In terms of what he has to gain, I think he has the opportunity to work with Benoit Allaire and perhaps fast track his pro aspirations. Of course there's money involved, but at the AHL level it's nowhere near as significant as that at the NHL level which is I imagine what he hopes to attain.
You also forgot to mention Josh Blackburn or is he gone now too? Working with Benoit Allaire may be a wonderful experience and all but again, I'll go back to my original concern. Holt still has a lot to work on and he's going to be required to improve on the areas in question alot more quickly and my guess in a shorter amount of time. What makes it even worse is that he's not currently one of the Rangers top goalies in their system (correct me if I'm wrong here), so he'll have to work that much harder just to win the backup job. I hope that he does prove me wrong because I'd really like to see him succeed at the pro level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
This of course is not a no-risk move, I just happen to think it's one that is worth taking...others like yourself obviously disagree and that's fine.
It isn't so much I disagree with the move but rather I question more the timing of it and whether it was really necessary to do it now. I guess we'll all know soon enough.

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08-18-2005, 08:39 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
You also forgot to mention Josh Blackburn or is he gone now too?
That would be Dan Blackburn...he's likely to retire after failing to recover from his shoulder injury. He was not qualified by the Rangers and has about a dozen pro games before he has to make a decision about his insurance.

Quote:
It isn't so much I disagree with the move but rather I question more the timing of it and whether it was really necessary to do it now. I guess we'll all know soon enough.
Well I don't know we'll ever know. If he succeeds then obviously it was a good move, if he does...was it because he left too early, or was it because he just wasn't good enough?

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08-18-2005, 08:43 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Fish
That would be Dan Blackburn...he's likely to retire after failing to recover from his shoulder injury. He was not qualified by the Rangers and has about a dozen pro games before he has to make a decision about his insurance.
oops, my bad. That's who I meant.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
Well I don't know we'll ever know. If he succeeds then obviously it was a good move, if he does...was it because he left too early, or was it because he just wasn't good enough?
Again, I hope he proves me wrong and wish him all the best in the future. They're gonna miss him alot at UNO...and in more ways than one.

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08-18-2005, 08:46 PM
  #70
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If Holt was a Jr player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
You don't watch many UNO games do you? Because one, they did not struggle last year. They finished fourth in the CCHA, which was up from 12th in 2003-04. Two, the program will be going into its eighth season this fall. Three, the NCAA is NOT the CHL. Four, just curious how many times have you seen Holt play? I've seen him play about a dozen times, and in both seasons that he played at UNO. I like the kid (I've even made mention of that here and elsewhere on HF before) but I also believe, from the many times I have seen him, particularly this past season that he still has a ways to go....even to be effective at the AHL level. I don't know maybe he'll prove me wrong and become a strater for Hartford this season, though I won't put money on it just yet.



First off, you're comparing 37 amateur games to 35 pro, it's totally different. If you're going to make that comparison, you might as well compare the NTDP or the CHL for that matter to the NHL.



What makes you absolutely sure he WILL be in Hartford this fall? I'm not saying that there's no chance he won't be because he might, then again he may be assigned to Charlotte (ECHL) as well.

What does he have to gain? It's called money.
he would be coming out. Where is it written that he will be in Hartford? The Rangers also have Charlotte in the ECHL and the ECHL has made huge strides from the slapshot days. The rangers are moving players into the organization for one reason, they finally have a developmental staff to support their prospects. Many of these "young" players will benefit enormously from working with our staff, much more than where they were coming from.

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08-18-2005, 08:49 PM
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Why is it that as soon as someone, other than crosby

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Originally Posted by Ola
Great news on Petr Prucha signing. He is 23 y/o and a asset. His size is questionable since he is listed at 510-511 which maybe wouldn't be that much of a problem, even if it turns out that he is 5'9 but he is also around 165-170lbs and that is not much in the NHL. If not for his size Prucha would be pretty much a perfect player. He have great hockey sense and workethic. Combined with world class balance, agility and acceleration and really soft hands. You don't often see a player go into the corner in his own end, win the puck and then accelerate with it out of trouble and deliver a perfect outlet pass to start a transition play, thats what Prucha brings to a team. Its in thoose situations IMO that Prucha is most valuble, starting on the backcheck where he is relentless untill the puck is won and he turns into a puck magnet and almost always picks up a loose puck or is available for a quick outlet pass, he can then from here really thrive and set up a play with allot of ice infront of him, something he does really well and is also really responible in dooing. Thats his signum and something he masters.

But Pruchas hockeysense also gives him allot of scoringchances. He is great at finding "holes" offensively, no matter how good the competition is Prucha never seems overwhelmed. He is alway on top of the game, if his linemates goes up to high Prucha steps down and covers for them. If a defensemen steps up to high Prucha darts into the open ice. Much of Petrs offense comes from his hockey sense and the fact that he always keeps his feet moving. Especially down low and that really compensates for his lacks of lbs + that he never plays his size. No matter what the situation are he always plays like a coach would want his player to do, it looks silly when Zdeno Chara is making a outlet play and Prucha closes in on him like Wendel Clark, and of course ends up sprawling on the ice...

The qualitys I've listed above is the reason he have made the Czech Rep. National team for two straight WCH, ahead of guys like Martin Havlat, Alex Hemsky and Josef Vasicek and basically every other Czech player playing in Europe.

Though the big question is how he fits in the NHL and what role he can play. First of all I think he will benefit tremendously from the redline beeing removed. Prucha will probably feel more comfortable in this game then just about any other player. Another question is how much time he will get to make plays, will it be a few times per game a couple of times per shift? I guess allot of it will come down to what line he plays on. Though the NYR is proabably a great fit for him. Like I said earlier Prucha is great at reading the game, he have decent breakaway speed, how good will teams in the NHL be at closing the ice that opens without the redline? Will Prucha be able to take advantage of slow defensemen?

Now what role can he play. Prucha most likely never be able to be a go-to guy on a line, a player that is a constant threat on transition plays ect. Maybe if he keeps developing allot but not in the near future. Prucha have played his best hockey with Dopita. I think he would have been a perfect fit on a line with for example Holik-Kovalev, or Lindros-Bure. He can cover defensivly when thoose guys are high up. He can start a counter attack in a hurry and he can finnish of plays. Thats why I always have compared him with Mike York in terms of potential and role. On this years NYR team there are a few spots open. I am not sure he would be a great fit with Jagr because his offensive game isn't really that well rounded but playing LW on a line with Nylander/Straka-Jagr would be a option. If Immonen comes over and wins the 2nd line center spot we are kind of crowded on the top 2 lines. He could challenge Balej for a spot but Prucha unlike Joey B could defenitly play on a 3rd line, so my best bet is that he starts the season on a line with Nieminen-Betts-Prucha. Camp is gooing to be really exciting thats for sure! =)
who might be smaller than prucha, signs, their size is an issue? Size matters only if you are a timid player. prucha is not a timid player.

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08-18-2005, 09:29 PM
  #72
Levitate
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The pro level isn't going to wait for a long period of time for a player to develop.
the rangers gave a guy like labarbera plenty of time to develop...

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08-19-2005, 12:10 AM
  #73
BigE
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It seems that some people here maybe underestimate just how good of a goaltender coach Benoit Allaire is. I did a back flip when I heard we'd nabbed him because matching him with the goaltending prospects we have is going to do absolute wonders.

Chris Holt and Al Montoya now have the benefit of focusing solely on honing their skills and working with the best goaltender coach in the world (that title is split between Benoit and his brother Francois). If Benoit isn't there they've still got the drills. Goaltending is a game of repitition, it's muscle movements engrained in your skull and the more times you practice a movement, the less you have to think before making it.

Lets also not lose sight of the fact that a goaltender doesn't have to be a starter in order to improve. Montoya may play in 60-70% of the games in Hartford but the 20-30 games that Holt does play in will serve as valuable experience. It's important not to push them too hard. Having two capable goaltenders to share the load, share experience and share in each others development is only a positive thing.

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08-19-2005, 12:31 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Levitate
the rangers gave a guy like labarbera plenty of time to develop...

Yeah but they were caught off guard when the Kings gave him a two-year oneway deal.

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08-19-2005, 01:04 AM
  #75
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With all this Montoya/Holt discussion...where does Lundquist stand...on W. 34th St.?

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