I'm glad I'm no the only one confused by this deal. Nothing against Stumpel, because frankly, he's still an effective player, but another centerman?!?
Jokinen, Niewendyk, Stumpel, Gratton, Weiss, Nederost is 6 centers without even counting Olesz, Stewart, and Horton (who are all capable of playing the wing). I'm guessing Weiss is as good as gone now (although he was probably questionable to begin with), but that still leaves a big logjam at the pivot.
I'm glad I'm no the only one confused by this deal. Nothing against Stumpel, because frankly, he's still an effective player, but another centerman?!?
Jokinen, Niewendyk, Stumpel, Gratton, Weiss, Nederost is 6 centers without even counting Olesz, Stewart, and Horton (who are all capable of playing the wing). I'm guessing Weiss is as good as gone now (although he was probably questionable to begin with), but that still leaves a big logjam at the pivot.
if anything, i expect weiss to be gone (like you mentioned) and nederost.
Stupid move by Keenan. Perhaps he plans on sending Weiss and others back to the minors unless they have a phenominal training camp. And even if they make the team, one bad game and they'll probably go there anyways.
Keenan doesn't know how to build a team. All these old guys don't make the Panthers a contender, and in the long run when they retire or go elsewhere they won't have an experienced core of young guys to build around because they weren't given a chance to play.
Do not see AHL as option for our top "young" players with the Panthers not having their own AHL team. Any Panther players in the AHL are going to get the short end of the stick (no pun intended) because AHL coaches will be told by their parent team to give piority to their players.... I think we are looking at trade bait or players playing new positions, ie. Weis at Wing.
Thunderheart
I'm glad I'm no the only one confused by this deal. Nothing against Stumpel, because frankly, he's still an effective player, but another centerman?!?
Jokinen, Niewendyk, Stumpel, Gratton, Weiss, Nederost is 6 centers without even counting Olesz, Stewart, and Horton (who are all capable of playing the wing). I'm guessing Weiss is as good as gone now (although he was probably questionable to begin with), but that still leaves a big logjam at the pivot.
Well, with the Toronto influence, maybe we're changing our name from the Florida Panthers to the Florida Centers of the Universe.
Stumpel wil play Wing I'm guessing, everyone needs to stop worrying. This doesn't mean Weiss is gone or anybody is moving, you need 4 solid lines to play in the NHL, and if we have more than quality then why not have it, got to remember there will be injuries. Stumpel is a poor man's playmaker and he will do fine on the 2nd or 3rd line as JV said.
So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
Wow, I feel for you Florida fans. Keenan upsets Luongo, now signs Stumpel. There's a good news however, it seems like many of you could be a General Manager in the NHL, at least you wouldn't be worse then mr.K
So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
Didn't get to say this earlier, but great to have you posting here Brouke.
I didn't see the terms of the deal earlier...for $3.25 million over two years, Stumpel's actually a great signing by Keenan.
Still needs 1st or 2nd line ice time to be very effective, though. I don't think he does well with limited ice time (wasn't he more or less invisible with Boston?).
So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
I didn't see the terms of the deal earlier...for $3.25 million over two years, Stumpel's actually a great signing by Keenan.
Still needs 1st or 2nd line ice time to be very effective, though. I don't think he does well with limited ice time (wasn't he more or less invisible with Boston?).
heres the last four years:
2001-02 Boston Bruins NHL 72 7 47 54 14 6 0 2 2 0
2002-03 Boston Bruins NHL 78 14 37 51 12 5 0 2 2 0
2003-04 Los-Angeles Kings NHL 64 8 29 37 16 -- -- -- -- --
2004-05 Slavia Praha HC Czech 52 13 26 39 41
not too shabby, even the year on that absolutely decimated kings team. the knock is that hes soft. otherwise, hes a pretty consistent producer.
i had to edit this cause i just realized that if we stick stumpel and gratton together we get one pretty good player. gratton is tough and good on the draw but doesnt produce consistently. stumpel puts up numbers, but hides behind his purse when he gets hit.
mash them together and you get a 90 point two way center that kills in the faceoff circle and will drop the gloves!
Last edited by patastrophe: 08-17-2005 at 09:47 PM.
2001-02 Boston Bruins NHL 72 7 47 54 14 6 0 2 2 0
2002-03 Boston Bruins NHL 78 14 37 51 12 5 0 2 2 0
2003-04 Los-Angeles Kings NHL 64 8 29 37 16 -- -- -- -- --
2004-05 Slavia Praha HC Czech 52 13 26 39 41
Wow his point production has dropped every year, even on a team as decimated with injuries as the Kings, who somehow only missed the playoffs by 8 points...which means someone must have been getting points ...it just wasnt Slumple. Sorry I may seem a bit bitter, but im sure most of you will share the feeling as the season moves on.
So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
This is exactly what i talked about in my earlier thread about this off season being a bust. Anyway that i look at it this signing makes no sense when what the Panthers greatest needs at the moment is Scoring winger and D-man, Stumpel is neither. His production has gone down for the last 4 years and he never has been a Goal Scorer. Why not Selanne? Mogilny? or Bondra? this signing makes no sense.
So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
Once again, great post Brouke! I agree with you 100% on one part in specific. Before we were too young, blah,blah, need help, whatever. Now, too old, overpay, blah, blah, where's the kids gonna play. So far, Keenan has brought in experience, hasn't touched the "core" (everyone thinks he will because of this, but it hasn't happened and may never happen) which is what most wanted anyway. I plan to let it all play out before i get TOO worked up. I understand though, it's been a year and a half since a hockey game was played, we still have a good seven weeks left before they do again. There is nothing to do but pour over every little transaction in the league. Scrutinize and micro-scrutinize over and over. The games will be back on soon, then we can finally move on to talking about what everyone here cares more about than management, salary caps, free-agents, and the business side in general, HOCKEY GAMES. In the immortal words of The Rock, "Just bring it!"
First, I'll give a round of clap to Mister Brouke !!!
Then, I'll give my opinion... You are all crying for a scoring winger... why don't we give the guys we have some chances ! Come on... I see Stumpel on a line with Jokinen and Horton, those guys are the scorers, you are not going to say that Jokinen is a playmaker or even Horton ! These three could match up really well IMO
Then we have old boys Gary and Joe taking mister Enigma Huselius under there wings...
That gives us two good lines IMO or better than those we had in the past... Thorw-in names like Weiss, Olesz, Stewart, Kolnik we have some guys who can put up the numbers.
On our 3rd line, we have Gratton and Gelinas just those two alone makes me feel good.
Okay now we need a defenseman.... Anybody thinks of a package with Stephen Weiss for Redden... It would make me sick to give away Stevie but hey Wade is one of the top defenseman in the game !
Come on guys... those are bad signings ??? We added some much needed experience, faceoff circle dominance and character... If you aren't okay with those signings fine ! I'd rather have those guys and Stumpel the latest than a "falling fast" Bondra or "overpaid" Mogilny or Selanne who are all over 35... okay Roberts and Nieuwendyk are at there 40s, but they make us way better than a Peter Bondra or a Teemu Selanne !
So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
Completely agree with you...
I just hope those people who you point out that have only negative things to say about the Panthers, don't approach life in the same kind of way
God, I feel sorry for you guys and I cannot begin to tell you how thrilled I am at not having to worry about him being a King this season or next for that natter.
This is exactly what i talked about in my earlier thread about this off season being a bust. Anyway that i look at it this signing makes no sense when what the Panthers greatest needs at the moment is Scoring winger and D-man, Stumpel is neither. His production has gone down for the last 4 years and he never has been a Goal Scorer. Why not Selanne? Mogilny? or Bondra? this signing makes no sense.
Maybe Mogilny wanted a return trip to N.J. or maybe we didn't bid as high as the Devils. Selanne and Bondra are still available. Who's to say we don't make a play for one of them but based on the sort of players we have added I would doubt it. Bondra scores but never has gained a grasp of what team play is all about. Selanne has lost a step but would be an interesting addition.
My guess is we add a 3rd or 4th liner in Scott Young, Rob Zamuner or Bates Battaglia(I believe all still available and healthy). Maybe Bertuzzi gets dealt and we are interested?
I think the last thing we want the Panthers to do is get caught up signing someone for two-seasons just to get him and take ourselves out of range for next year's crop of FA's, etc. I'd bet for people like Bondra and Selanne that is the holdup. They must realize by now where their salary is slotted but they are probably being offered 1-year deals and want more than that.
God, I feel sorry for you guys and I cannot begin to tell you how thrilled I am at not having to worry about him being a King this season or next for that natter.
If he works out great. If not, we buy him out. Either way at least we're not stuck with the Kings roster.
Okay now we need a defenseman.... Anybody thinks of a package with Stephen Weiss for Redden... It would make me sick to give away Stevie but hey Wade is one of the top defenseman in the game
Hah was just thinking this could happen. Yeah I'd hate to trade Stephen too, but for Redden at least we wouldn't be giving Stephen away for junk. I think Ottawa would probably ask for Jokinen as the centerpiece instead tho.
I agree with you 100% on one part in specific. Before we were too young, blah,blah, need help, whatever. Now, too old, overpay, blah, blah, where's the kids gonna play. So far, Keenan has brought in experience, hasn't touched the "core" (everyone thinks he will because of this, but it hasn't happened and may never happen) which is what most wanted anyway. I plan to let it all play out before i get TOO worked up. I understand though, it's been a year and a half since a hockey game was played, we still have a good seven weeks left before they do again. There is nothing to do but pour over every little transaction in the league. Scrutinize and micro-scrutinize over and over. The games will be back on soon, then we can finally move on to talking about what everyone here cares more about than management, salary caps, free-agents, and the business side in general, HOCKEY GAMES. In the immortal words of The Rock, "Just bring it!"
