So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
Brouke, you are now my favorite poster, sorry Clint.
I said the same thing elsewhere Crossbar. I could be wrong but I smell a Jokinen for Redden deal brewing.
I'd love to keep Jokinen, but for Redden, I wouldn't cry too long about it. Is Redden slated to make Jokinen money? If it's more, I can't imagine the budget being pushed any farther, can you?
I'd love to keep Jokinen, but for Redden, I wouldn't cry too long about it. Is Redden slated to make Jokinen money? If it's more, I can't imagine the budget being pushed any farther, can you?
I'd expect Redden will command more...but factoring that in is what makes this seem like a fairly close swap imo.
I'd expect Redden will command more...but factoring that in is what makes this seem like a fairly close swap imo.
If it's a money situation, think they'd take a Weiss+picks for him? I'm not so in love with a "could-be" that I wouldn't be willing to part with him. Jokinen has shown he can do it (had a Rob Schneider visual, and am laughing to myself) and he's worn our "C". But man, wouldn't Redden really shore up our blueline a bit?
If it's a money situation, think they'd take a Weiss+picks for him? I'm not so in love with a "could-be" that I wouldn't be willing to part with him. Jokinen has shown he can do it (had a Rob Schneider visual, and am laughing to myself) and he's worn our "C". But man, wouldn't Redden really shore up our blueline a bit?
I think they'd be very interested in a Jokinen deal. His rock-em sock-em style and size up the middle is what (I believe) they're missing.
Jokinen has neither of those qualites. Alright he's a bit big (I think 6'3), but he's far from a hard hitter or even aggressive.
What Jokinen are you watching? From what I remember(I'll admit, its been a while...) Olli was plenty physical. He's not going to drive people through the boards with a bone-crunching hit, but most of his goals come from him driving to the net hard and often.
Hours after having learned free-agent sniper Mogilny picked NJ over FLA, GM Mike Keenan went to Plan B and signed former Kings forward Jozef Stumpel on Wednesday. Stumpel is considered a top-two line center. Jokinen and Nieuwendyk are the Panthers' top two centers. Though Keenan wouldn't concede as much, Stumpel gives the Panthers an insurance policy if Jokinen holds out. FLA and Jokinen, the team's top scorer the past two seasons, are far apart on a deal. Keenan admitted that the Panthers, still have an "unpredictability" when it comes to who will score. Jokinen may be a holdout. Horton is coming off two shoulder surgeries. Roberts and Nieuwendyk will be 39 when the season starts. Huselius and Hagman are inconsistent.
"Would we like a real top-notch goal scorer? Absolutely." Keenan said. "And maybe we'll have one with one of these kids [Horton, Stewart, Weiss, Olesz] eventually. You try to build a solid team first and then work from there." The only scorers still available as free agents are Selanne and Bondra, but the Panthers have little interest. Making a trade is an option, and the team has interest in Vancouver's Todd Bertuzzi.
I cant believe the posts of some of these "fans". I dont know why signing more quality, proven guys, albiet old, is such a bad thing. If you didnt realise, we havent made the playoffs in 5 years because our rosters have SUCKED. We have relied on too many young guys to carry the team, and it has proven to be a bad strategy to win games. I dont know about you, but I want the Panthers to make the playoffs. These signings will enable us to be a legitimate team and I believe we will make it. For everyone who bashes these signings, will you still be complaining if we make the playoffs even though Weiss has been playing on the third line?? What if Stewart doesnt play an NHL game. Personally I dont freakin care about that anymore. 5 years of prospects being the major talking point in Panther boards is long enough - I want to be talking abuot who we will aquire at the deadline and who we may face in the first round. Finally we will be talking about that. This doesnt mean I dont want Horton, Bouwy, Weiss to develop into stars. Rather I think that now they will come into their own, as veterens can carry the load and the young guys can play in a pressureless, complementary role and line up with other teams 3rd and 4th lines, instead of going up against the opponents top lines when they are clearly overmatched.
In short, Panther veteren signings = good any way you look at it.
BTW, dont look for Weiss to be traded IMO. He is CHEAP and may thrive in the new NHL, plus there is still a position for him on the team. I know it may be 3rd or 4th line, but realisticly, thats all he is at the moment. I think its much more likely for Jokinen to be traded, and if it was for Redden, then I would be stoked
So let me get this straight. The players we are adding suck. The salaries we are paying are too much. Two years ago the complaints were too much youth and a cheap team that won't spend money. Now it's where will the room be for our young players when we keep signing these has-beens. Even as we were going after Mogilny the same people that were saying we better not overpaying are now whining that we didn't get him.
Personally, I'd rather have Gelinas, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Gratton and Stumpel than Hordichuk, Audette, Cullen, Ritchie and Samuelsson.
Folks, we had 28 wins in 81 games. Our defense was horrible. We had zero ability to come back in games. From the tone of some of these messages you'd think we broke up a dynasty. We have added veterans, defensive minded players and ya know what....when our youngsters are good enough to play, they will. Trades can and will be made. In a salary cap league the ability to plug in a youngster and deal a veteran creates payroll flexability be it cap room or in our case money that can be used elsewhere.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this? Outside of bringing in Scott Niedermayer, Ziggy Palfy and Peter Forseberg at 1/2 of what they signed for you were going to knock Keenan and the Panthers, yes? The moves themselves are meaningless...the reaction would have been either he sucks or we overpaid. Oh wait, Keenan is trying not to overpay Luongo and that is bad too. It's a business boys...look at these players movong around now. It will happen each and every year. Not to this extent but in general this is the new NHL. Luongo has value to the Panthers obviously, but past a set $$ he becomes an obstacle. Though it is easier to win with Roberto this game can be won w/o him too. Other teams seem to be able to do it and if need be we can too.
Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
Bash away if you will...I am going to stay excited. Maybe in a few months someone will pull up this post and say..."Hey Brouke, guess you were wrong buddy, eh?" Or then again, maybe not...starting October 5th it is the maybe not I am looking forward to seeing.
Good points.. but... Most of us fans since day 1 have seen what this team has done over the years. It would seem were not allowed to be optimist because we too once were but being let down 1000 times wont allow us to be optimist because we think we'll just be let down once again and again and again.... What we were hoping for? After Niewy, Roberts and Gelinas signing we were highly hoping for an scoring winger and an true #1 dman (not an pronger or niedermayer) some1 better than Hill atleast say Aucoin for exsample. We were hoping for an scoring winger as many were out there. Luongo could be out the door aka Beezer fiasko (if you have been around long enough you know how that felt) I could go on and on....
I'm happy with signing's too... Except Stumpel signing I dont get. Atleast we got him "cheap". Gratton signing was great IMO would hoped to get him for 2 years at that price. Why we dont like signings of Stumpel because with all our old nightmares we feel were gonna trade away most of our yougth for more 30 somethings. I agree this team really needed more experience but I dont see it ending here. I see more and more of it coming at the cost of trading yougth. I'd hate to see Weiss, Huselius, Bouwmeester go.
As a newbie I hate to seem like such a wide-eyed optimist and get on some other people's case because they are unhappy with the way the team has shaped together....but my question to you after following the tone of some of these threads is this?...
...Sorry, but it pains me to see that after a season of no hockey there is not more excitement than heartache; that there is not more anticipation than a here we go again attitude; that there is not more support for the team and the acquisitions but instead a negative critique and analysis on the player, Keenan's quotes and the team as a whole.
It's a Pavlovian conditioned response...years of getting our hopes up and having them crushed. Now we expect the disappointment, and exhibit aversion behaviour toward getting excited, as it usually has brought an undesired result
I see I'm posting way too many replies, so I'll try to condense several in this post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KovalevPantherFan
I like this signing. It may take away from some youth, but think of this line:
Jokinen-Stumpel-Horton
Goalscorer-Playmaker-Roughian/Scorer
PERFECT line combination. Stumpy's not making too much, and he's a solid player. Nice pickup. We'll see how this pans out.
So long as Stumpel's heart is in it, I agree with this line combo. It frees Jokinen to score first, set up second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KovalevPantherFan
Jokinen has neither of those qualites. Alright he's a bit big (I think 6'3), but he's far from a hard hitter or even aggressive.
And Jokinen is very physical, he's just had to play with kid gloves, considering he's been the only consistent offensive threat on this team for 2 years running now.
But, Heimy, you intrigue me with your Jokinen-Redden proposal. I would do that in a heartbeat.
Crossbar-
That article you posted had some interesting points. I commend Keenan for at least being active this offseason and being a little more fiscally responsible with each new signing.
If anything, all these career centers will elevate the p!ss-poor faceoff % this team has had for several years.
The major concern I have, though, is that last paragraph regarding negotiations with Luongo's agent. I hope this doesn't go to arbitration, but it's looking like it will.
Do I need to remind anybody that we couldn't BUY a 40 point player last year much less a 50 point player. Jokinen was our ONLY player over 40 points. Our next best is Van Ryn, a defenseman. Let's see, the first time Stumpel played a complete season without splitting time in the AHL or Germany was in 95-96, and from that point on he's only missed the 50 point mark TWICE.
1998-99 Los Angeles NHL 64 13 21 34
2003-04 Los Angeles NHL 64 8 29 37
Except both of those seasons are enough to take 2nd or 3rd place on our team in scoring. I can't get over that. People are actually complaining about his point production when it eclipses that of every other player we have. I mean, really, look at the numbers we had last year. Hagman was 6th with 23 measly points. Look at any other team in the league and how far down you need to go to get to the 23 point players.
10 players over 23 points on Carolina.
12 players over 23 points on Boston.
10 players over 23 points on Atlanta.
10 players over 23 points on Tampa.
10 players over 23 points on Buffalo.
12 players over 23 points on Edmonton.
Should I continue? Even with our sorry offense how many games did we tie or lose by one goal? Yet you're all complaining about a 50 point player coming in. Incredible.
I think you guys are too used to being in perpetual rebuilding youth mode. You know, it's not normal to have a team full of 19 year olds. If this signing leads to Weiss or Huselius being moved.. then... what? Is the fear that we won't get anything good for them? I doubt that. You have to give to get.
10 players over 23 points on Carolina.
12 players over 23 points on Boston.
10 players over 23 points on Atlanta.
10 players over 23 points on Tampa.
10 players over 23 points on Buffalo.
12 players over 23 points on Edmonton.
If he works out great. If not, we buy him out. Either way at least we're not stuck with the Kings roster.
Can't buy him out Heimy, unless you want to pay someone to do nothing. Buy outs count against the cap from here on out. Its not like the NFL with non-guarenteed contracts. The NHL let the players keep their guarenteed contracts after this past initial buyout period, which was only done for certain teams to get under the cap. Just so happens, it helped the Panthers get rid of Biron.
Can't buy him out Heimy, unless you want to pay someone to do nothing. Buy outs count against the cap from here on out. Its not like the NFL with non-guarenteed contracts. The NHL let the players keep their guarenteed contracts after this past initial buyout period, which was only done for certain teams to get under the cap. Just so happens, it helped the Panthers get rid of Biron.
Yeah I know. But if Stumpel (or any other cheaply paid player) were to really underperform so much that the team would be better without him, I could see a scenario where he'd be bought out. It would have to be a case where the roster spot is more important than hanging onto a bad signing.
Do I need to remind anybody that we couldn't BUY a 40 point player last year much less a 50 point player. Jokinen was our ONLY player over 40 points. Our next best is Van Ryn, a defenseman. Let's see, the first time Stumpel played a complete season without splitting time in the AHL or Germany was in 95-96, and from that point on he's only missed the 50 point mark TWICE.
1998-99 Los Angeles NHL 64 13 21 34
2003-04 Los Angeles NHL 64 8 29 37
Except both of those seasons are enough to take 2nd or 3rd place on our team in scoring. I can't get over that. People are actually complaining about his point production when it eclipses that of every other player we have. I mean, really, look at the numbers we had last year. Hagman was 6th with 23 measly points. Look at any other team in the league and how far down you need to go to get to the 23 point players.
10 players over 23 points on Carolina.
12 players over 23 points on Boston.
10 players over 23 points on Atlanta.
10 players over 23 points on Tampa.
10 players over 23 points on Buffalo.
12 players over 23 points on Edmonton.
Should I continue? Even with our sorry offense how many games did we tie or lose by one goal? Yet you're all complaining about a 50 point player coming in. Incredible.
I think you guys are too used to being in perpetual rebuilding youth mode. You know, it's not normal to have a team full of 19 year olds. If this signing leads to Weiss or Huselius being moved.. then... what? Is the fear that we won't get anything good for them? I doubt that. You have to give to get.
Go back and look at what most of his points are though. He's a setup guy...plain and simple, he gets assists. The problem with that is there are plenty of those already in FL and not enough goal scorers.
Plus, you can't tell what a player's like just from his stats. The guy is softer than the Ultra Charmin he whipes his arse with. He's just a slightly better version of Viktor Kozlov. Would you have signed Kozlov to a 2 yr deal for $1.6 mil per seaosn?? Re-read all the comments from Kings fans again...or even Boston fans. There were several in Pittsburgh glad he didn't sign there. Doesn't seem weird at all to you?
Can't buy him out Heimy, unless you want to pay someone to do nothing. Buy outs count against the cap from here on out. Its not like the NFL with non-guarenteed contracts. The NHL let the players keep their guarenteed contracts after this past initial buyout period, which was only done for certain teams to get under the cap. Just so happens, it helped the Panthers get rid of Biron.
Isn't there another buy-out period next year at around the same time we had this one?
