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Precisely, where did they go wrong?

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Old
04-01-2014, 11:34 PM
  #1
Up the Irons
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Precisely, where did they go wrong?

With Mact and Eakins publicly admitting that big changes are needed and coming, it can now be said that Oilers' management has finally admitted that the rebuild has gone awry. I suppose you could say they realized this in the Tambo firing, or even when MacT was rehired. It doesn't really matter when, only that it is finally going to start happening (well, maybe).

So, where did they go wrong? And not just with 'Hiring Tambo', tho that probably is the single biggest, and most damaging, mistake made. Many point to firing Kruger and hiring Eakins, but there is no proof that the team would have been much better this season, only speculation. Chances are they would have been only marginally better. The lineup is weak, there is no getting around that. Poor management is the biggest contributor to this failure, and that includes numerous coaching changes.

I think believing they could build the whole lineup thru the draft and just give them time and it will all work out, was wrong headed from day one.

Believing that getting the support players is the easy part. Really? I would say gutting your team and drafting high is the easy part. Painful, but easy.

Finally, and I've said this many times, believing the Jordan Eberle-type skill set is the most important skill set in the game. From Shremp, to Nillsen, to signing Mitch Holmberg today, this organization loves the small dangler. Always have and, it appears, they still do.

As for actually technical mistakes. Drafting wingers about 5 drafts in a row. There are many more. discuss

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04-01-2014, 11:44 PM
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The Nuge
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Well a huge flaw was we got dmen after our forwards, but there were no dmen to take instead of who we did (other than Murray vs Yak and Katz forced our hand), so that's not really a mistake. We should have pushed hard for another pick in the mid first to try and get Fowler or Gormley though. Taking Kulikov over PRV would've helped as well

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04-01-2014, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Taking Kulikov over PRV would've helped as well
I agree on all your points Nuge. This one however is a wash for me. Kulikov has been awful all season and PRV got us Perron.

Perron > Kulikov > PRV. So I'm happy on how that chain of events played out

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04-01-2014, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Well a huge flaw was we got dmen after our forwards, but there were no dmen to take instead of who we did (other than Murray vs Yak and Katz forced our hand), so that's not really a mistake. We should have pushed hard for another pick in the mid first to try and get Fowler or Gormley though. Taking Kulikov over PRV would've helped as well
Kulikov is a dime a dozen dman , just like PRV is a dime a dozen forward.

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04-01-2014, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Well a huge flaw was we got dmen after our forwards, but there were no dmen to take instead of who we did (other than Murray vs Yak and Katz forced our hand), so that's not really a mistake. We should have pushed hard for another pick in the mid first to try and get Fowler or Gormley though. Taking Kulikov over PRV would've helped as well

yeah, they went back to a winger, as usual. mis-evaluating Brodziak didn't help.

I think, some of their petty, emotional decisions, like the whole Souray affair, were very hurtful

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04-01-2014, 11:52 PM
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Why does it matter where it went wrong?

All that matters now is that we know the people in charge of this whole mess are not astute hockey minds.

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04-01-2014, 11:56 PM
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Well, starting in 2006, after we lost Pronger, when we said "okay everyone, we're going to go for it again but this time without our elite D-man"

Then, we started touting rebuild 1, the KIDS, Gagner/Nilsson/Cogliano, the next best, meanwhile we weren't drafting that well and things were falling apart. We were trading away good solid NHLers every year that are still in the league today.

Then, we hired Pat Quinn and Tambellini, Double Disaster. Tambellini failed to land us the support we'd need around our big new stars, combined with Stu and our developmental scouts and staff. Easily the worst GM in team history forever. Without any D as Nuge suggested, we were in big trouble.

The bottom six would revamp every year with crappy players each and every time, until his firing. Renney, Krueger, Eakins, coaches coming in and out because their systems were hard to implement in one season and our personnel was just brutal in terms of not having any depth, combined with injury.

Bottom line in where they went wrong: They tried to go Pittsburgh, and instead went Atlanta. Hall is our Kovalchuk. We still have basically no D, and are hoping that Marincin/Schultz/Nurse/Klef save our *****, but they are all quite young so it's a lot of expectation on them. Our forwards have been in a losing environment forever and a lot of the creativity is gone. The media craps on Yak on a daily basis. MacT has made some good trades, but nothing bold yet, and also has made some bad trades. It's just not going anywhere.

Even when we get D-men....traded Visnovsky, traded Smid, traded Gilbert, bought out Souray, traded Pitkanen, it never ends.

When we got Hall, things were looking up, and then there was a lot of negativity but last year was a bit of a mirage because at 5 v 5 we weren't doing so well. However, Krueger had special teams down pat. Then, Tambo did nothing on deadline day, which "surprisingly" was a terrible idea, leading to our downfall, then he got fired which was nice but now we're all sitting in a pool of the league's urine. This team is a dumpster fire.

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04-01-2014, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qrispy View Post
Why does it matter where it went wrong?

All that matters now is that we know the people in charge of this whole mess are not astute hockey minds.
I suppose it doesn't matter. I just like talking about it, to be perfectly honest.

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04-02-2014, 12:02 AM
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Rookie Owner, Rookie Gm's, Rookie Coach's, and Ryan Smyth and Sam Gagner


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04-02-2014, 12:17 AM
  #10
Joey Moss
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It all went wrong when they handed Kevin Lowe the GM position in 2001. (or 2000?) It got worse when they handed him a promotion.

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04-02-2014, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Well, starting in 2006, after we lost Pronger, when we said "okay everyone, we're going to go for it again but this time without our elite D-man"

Then, we started touting rebuild 1, the KIDS, Gagner/Nilsson/Cogliano, the next best, meanwhile we weren't drafting that well and things were falling apart. We were trading away good solid NHLers every year that are still in the league today.

Then, we hired Pat Quinn and Tambellini, Double Disaster. Tambellini failed to land us the support we'd need around our big new stars, combined with Stu and our developmental scouts and staff. Easily the worst GM in team history forever. Without any D as Nuge suggested, we were in big trouble.

The bottom six would revamp every year with crappy players each and every time, until his firing. Renney, Krueger, Eakins, coaches coming in and out because their systems were hard to implement in one season and our personnel was just brutal in terms of not having any depth, combined with injury.

Bottom line in where they went wrong: They tried to go Pittsburgh, and instead went Atlanta. Hall is our Kovalchuk. We still have basically no D, and are hoping that Marincin/Schultz/Nurse/Klef save our *****, but they are all quite young so it's a lot of expectation on them. Our forwards have been in a losing environment forever and a lot of the creativity is gone. The media craps on Yak on a daily basis. MacT has made some good trades, but nothing bold yet, and also has made some bad trades. It's just not going anywhere.

Even when we get D-men....traded Visnovsky, traded Smid, traded Gilbert, bought out Souray, traded Pitkanen, it never ends.

When we got Hall, things were looking up, and then there was a lot of negativity but last year was a bit of a mirage because at 5 v 5 we weren't doing so well. However, Krueger had special teams down pat. Then, Tambo did nothing on deadline day, which "surprisingly" was a terrible idea, leading to our downfall, then he got fired which was nice but now we're all sitting in a pool of the league's urine. This team is a dumpster fire.
good assessment. many say they had to take the forwards because they were the BPA, and maybe they did. But, it is no secret that you build thru the D. so, if that is so true, then you have to do that. You wanna pick Yak, or PRV or Eberle, fine. but you have to have the balls to trade a good player, a fan favourite even, to build the team. they still have yet to do that with this rebuild, and probably waited too long to get top value. The fact the Eberle, Yak and Gagner are still on this team points to this reluctance, or mistaken belief that they can win with them

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04-02-2014, 12:19 AM
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Jek McPorkins
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Trading away vets and putting kids in way over their heads.

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04-02-2014, 12:21 AM
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Joey Moss
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Trading away vets and putting kids in way over their heads.
They traded vets who were locker room cancers and had to put kids in their place because the team failed under Lowe to gain depth in the organization. They tried signing vets and they wouldn't come here.

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04-02-2014, 12:24 AM
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Trading away vets and putting kids in way over their heads.
This.

The few vets they did keep around had way too much pressure on them and were easily made scapegoats for managements failure to build a team. Lowe and Co. didn't build a team, they grew a bunch of kids and some scraps on the ice and hoped it would all sort itself out.

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04-02-2014, 12:25 AM
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It started to go wrong when the lockout ended. Lowe gets the reigns taken off a bit to compete for a cup instead of just "remain competitive under a budget". He clearly isn't a good GM, and really has no business being anywhere near the job team administrative role. The moments of idiocy and bad decisions he was prone to prior to the Pronger debacle only got worse once the boundaries of what he could do were taken away.

The Cup run itself gave both Mactavish and Lowe a grace period and resigned contracts despite years of poor service and an increasingly dysfunctionally run team. Not to mention a terrible reputation around the league with the players caused by those two, which is still a major issue with the franchise today.

Katz buys the team and immediately ignores all his promises of a competently run organization, turning it into a playtoy for all his cronies.

Lowe gets bumped upstairs and is allowed to recommend a GM, which of course turns out to be a bud of his who he was friends with on the team Canada selection committee. Tambo being a guy that pretty much no one else in the league was interested in hiring, as his rep even then was that he was tentative administrator.

The actual rebuild failed before it started, when the people who created the scorched earth mess that was the 2010 team, were given free reign to undertake the rebuild themselves. The point of the rebuild should have been to rebuild the organization, not just the on-ice product, and the Oilers were just as talent starved in the management room as they were in the dressing room.

And of course, recent footnotes in the ongoing saga of the worst run franchise in the NHL, the bringing back of another Katz/Lowe buddy in the exceptionally mediocre Mactavish in yet another case of a GM hired with zero interviews to find the best candidate. A move that just adds to the pack of yes men who are good at telling each other what they want to hear, but not so good at anything else. His first move is to immediately hire the biggest bomb of a coach in the history of the franchise, and tank the franchise to it's worst season since the first Renny rebuild year where the prior GM was intentionally building a team to compete for last overall.

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04-02-2014, 12:28 AM
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good assessment. many say they had to take the forwards because they were the BPA, and maybe they did. But, it is no secret that you build thru the D. so, if that is so true, then you have to do that. You wanna pick Yak, or PRV or Eberle, fine. but you have to have the balls to trade a good player, a fan favourite even, to build the team. they still have yet to do that with this rebuild, and probably waited too long to get top value. The fact the Eberle, Yak and Gagner are still on this team points to this reluctance, or mistaken belief that they can win with them
Well I mean they picked the right players in my opinion in round 1. Hall/RNH/Yak/Ebs/Klef/Paajarvi were all good picks in my book. I even would have taken Nichushkin over Nurse, but both are looking pretty good.

Our GM's job is to trade for D, find D that can play well for us, and Stu's job was to find D past round one who can play for us as well. Stu has kinda done his side of the bargain. Klefbom (round 1) and Marincin are coming around, although it's happening only now.

The fact that our GMs have been okay with the D every year is a giant issue that hopefully MacT fixes. He thought Ference would be enough in year one, dumb mistake, he'll learn hopefully for our sakes. They did trade a fan favorite, in a stupid deal, with Smid, so they aren't totally afraid of doing that. They're too chicken to trade away a forward of value including Gagner, or a high draft pick (like 2014 or 2015 picks for example) to vastly improve the team.

Chicago did it right. Drafted and developed 3 D, and then got the other 2 D for Barker, Johnsson, two draft picks and signed the other guy. Amazing. We're too behind on development to do that, but maybe we'll finally be bold enough to try and land the best we can.

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04-02-2014, 12:29 AM
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They traded vets who were locker room cancers and had to put kids in their place because the team failed under Lowe to gain depth in the organization. They tried signing vets and they wouldn't come here.
The oilers have had tons of cap space the last few years. No reason why they couldn't have overpaid a few quality vets to come here. Instead they cheated out and signed flakes like Belanger, Foster and Eager.

Gordon was a beauty signing. Belov was a good gamble. MacT at least appears to be able to do a few things right. The Tambo/Lowe combo was absolutely awful in almost every move they made

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04-02-2014, 12:58 AM
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It started to go wrong when the lockout ended. Lowe gets the reigns taken off a bit to compete for a cup instead of just "remain competitive under a budget". He clearly isn't a good GM, and really has no business being anywhere near the job team administrative role. The moments of idiocy and bad decisions he was prone to prior to the Pronger debacle only got worse once the boundaries of what he could do were taken away.

The Cup run itself gave both Mactavish and Lowe a grace period and resigned contracts despite years of poor service and an increasingly dysfunctionally run team. Not to mention a terrible reputation around the league with the players caused by those two, which is still a major issue with the franchise today.

Katz buys the team and immediately ignores all his promises of a competently run organization, turning it into a playtoy for all his cronies.

Lowe gets bumped upstairs and is allowed to recommend a GM, which of course turns out to be a bud of his who he was friends with on the team Canada selection committee. Tambo being a guy that pretty much no one else in the league was interested in hiring, as his rep even then was that he was tentative administrator.

The actual rebuild failed before it started, when the people who created the scorched earth mess that was the 2010 team, were given free reign to undertake the rebuild themselves. The point of the rebuild should have been to rebuild the organization, not just the on-ice product, and the Oilers were just as talent starved in the management room as they were in the dressing room.

And of course, recent footnotes in the ongoing saga of the worst run franchise in the NHL, the bringing back of another Katz/Lowe buddy in the exceptionally mediocre Mactavish in yet another case of a GM hired with zero interviews to find the best candidate. A move that just adds to the pack of yes men who are good at telling each other what they want to hear, but not so good at anything else. His first move is to immediately hire the biggest bomb of a coach in the history of the franchise, and tank the franchise to it's worst season since the first Renny rebuild year where the prior GM was intentionally building a team to compete for last overall.
whew. you pretty much nailed it.

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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
The oilers have had tons of cap space the last few years. No reason why they couldn't have overpaid a few quality vets to come here. Instead they cheated out and signed flakes like Belanger, Foster and Eager.

Gordon was a beauty signing. Belov was a good gamble. MacT at least appears to be able to do a few things right. The Tambo/Lowe combo was absolutely awful in almost every move they made
good point

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04-02-2014, 01:02 AM
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the end

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04-02-2014, 01:02 AM
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I agree on all your points Nuge. This one however is a wash for me. Kulikov has been awful all season and PRV got us Perron.

Perron > Kulikov > PRV. So I'm happy on how that chain of events played out
I actually edited my post to add that. The only reason I say that is we could use Kulikov more than Perron, even though Perron is the better player

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04-02-2014, 01:27 AM
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The hit that damaged RNH's shoulder set the rebuild back by a year IMO.

He played all last season needing surgery and wasn't able to train properly last summer which has in turn impacted this season.

Also, a little bit of bad luck I think with Galchenyuk getting injured his draft year, IMO the Oilers would've picked him no.1 overall, but you can't use a no.1 overall pick on a guy who's only played like 6 games his draft year.

It's not that I think Galy is even neccessarily the better player over Yakupov, it's just that I think we needed a no.2 center more than another winger.

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04-02-2014, 02:06 AM
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Not tanking from 2009 - 2011, keeping vets etc.

Obviously hindsight but if we tanked in 2009 and picked well and kept some players. I probably have some picks and trades crossed up. Probably would not have picked high enough for Nuge n stuff. Obviously nonsense.

Hall - Tavares - Hemsky
O'Reilly - Nuge - Eberle
Glencross - Cogliano - Gagner
Lander - Arco - Pitlick

Our D is still iffy.


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04-02-2014, 02:15 AM
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Hiring Krueger and Eakins as head coaches was a mistake. Neither were ready. If we fire Eakins we don't have a suitable replacement out there either.

Tambellini's last season here was a huge fail, moreso than the others. He overpaid for Smithson, Fistric, and arguably Brown. There were bad FA signings too.

I don't care what management says either: we did not go hard enough after Bishop. He was there for us. We should have been desperate for a young goalie to challenge Dubnyk at that point. This is not a hindsight observation. Even if without knowing how great Bishop would be, it was the obvious move for us.

Other than that I don't see much we could have done differently. I agree with the rebuild strategy. That means fewer FAs will sign, and Tambellini didn't saddle the team with overpaid FAs like Wideman. The rebuild is not progressing fast enough but we are only one year off. We're just very eager to see this process end.

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04-02-2014, 02:18 AM
  #24
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2007?

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04-02-2014, 02:36 AM
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1. Tambellini was quite simply the wrong man for the job.
2. the type of players taken first overall (Hall and RNH are good, but simply not in the same universe as some of the top picks in other years. Yakupov is possibly the worst 1st overall in the past decade. It does not help that 2 of the players ar wingers. But much of it is just bad luck.
3. Bad trades, poor free agent signings and poor drafting/development during the Tambellini era. This has several important consequences: weak defence, poor mix in the top 6, lack of depth.

This team could have been in much better shape if at least some of the roster moves that the ever cautious Tambellini did make panned out. Alas, it was mostly downgrades in terms of trades (Cole for O'Sullivan, Visnovsky for Whitney type of deals or Fraser/Eager/Belanger/Petrell signings.

Drafting and development has not been atrocious since 2008 (Eberle, Marincin, Klefbom), but it would have helped if the likes of Paajarvi, Lander, Pitlick, Hamilton, Martindale lived up to their high draft position.

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