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Hamilton Bulldogs & Wheeling Nailers 2013-2014 Part 4

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Old
06-03-2014, 08:54 PM
  #451
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Too little too late for our Montreal Canadiens.
I'm pretty sure our fans were the only ones who came out and said McCarron would be in the top 6. It seems Bergevin wanted us to draft depth from within to surround our core.

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06-03-2014, 09:04 PM
  #452
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I'm pretty sure our fans were the only ones who came out and said McCarron would be in the top 6. It seems Bergevin wanted us to draft depth from within to surround our core.
Pretty much. McCarron is a guy you can put up in the top 6 at times to help create room and punish the opponents, but mostly he'll be a bottom 6 guy.

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06-03-2014, 09:23 PM
  #453
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Pretty much. McCarron is a guy you can put up in the top 6 at times to help create room and punish the opponents, but mostly he'll be a bottom 6 guy.
Like Bickell is doing in Chicago right now. In the playoff however you need someone like him in the top6.

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06-03-2014, 09:30 PM
  #454
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Like Bickell is doing in Chicago right now. In the playoff however you need someone like him in the top6.
Yup.

McCarron will need a season, or two in the AHL.

People are disappointed in McCarron because he's not putting up huge numbers. Montreal wants him to be a player who they can put on the ice who can skate, hit people defend himself and teammates and can score, or set up plays.

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06-03-2014, 09:40 PM
  #455
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Yup.

McCarron will need a season, or two in the AHL.

People are disappointed in McCarron because he's not putting up huge numbers. Montreal wants him to be a player who they can put on the ice who can skate, hit people defend himself and teammates and can score, or set up plays.
If he can't score in junior hockey though, it usually projects to being unable to keep up with an NHL paced game.

There are plenty of exceptions to the rule though, and nobody should dismiss him completely. But this year didn't help his odds.

Finding the next Bickell and Shaw probably isn't that easy if we don't also have the next Kane, Toews, Sharp and Hossa too.


Last edited by Et le But: 06-03-2014 at 09:45 PM.
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06-03-2014, 09:54 PM
  #456
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Yup.

McCarron will need a season, or two in the AHL.

People are disappointed in McCarron because he's not putting up huge numbers. Montreal wants him to be a player who they can put on the ice who can skate, hit people defend himself and teammates and can score, or set up plays.
He can't do it consistently or well at the junior level, not sure why people would believe he could do it in the NHL. His top end speed is pretty good for a big guy, which is not to say he will be any more than an average skater at the NHL level. He's got decent hands but poor IQ (both offensively and defensively) and vision. An average shot and (from what I've seen) not great eye-hand in front of the net. He absolutely improved nearing the end of the year but he'll need to take a page out of the "PK Subban Book of Increased Development" if he wants to ever be a top-9 complimentary player.

I don't and have never seen the top-6 upside to Michael McCarron.

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06-04-2014, 12:19 AM
  #457
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He can't do it consistently or well at the junior level, not sure why people would believe he could do it in the NHL. His top end speed is pretty good for a big guy, which is not to say he will be any more than an average skater at the NHL level. He's got decent hands but poor IQ (both offensively and defensively) and vision. An average shot and (from what I've seen) not great eye-hand in front of the net. He absolutely improved nearing the end of the year but he'll need to take a page out of the "PK Subban Book of Increased Development" if he wants to ever be a top-9 complimentary player.

I don't and have never seen the top-6 upside to Michael McCarron.
A player like McCarron developed properly would be perfect with the Pac/DD duo. He'll never be the most talented player on his line, he'll be there to retrieve the puck ,win puck battles in the corner, go to the front of the net and drive it on rushes to open up space for his linemates.

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06-04-2014, 12:26 AM
  #458
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A player like McCarron developed properly would be perfect with the Pac/DD duo. He'll never be the most talented player on his line, he'll be there to retrieve the puck ,win puck battles in the corner, go to the front of the net and drive it on rushes to open up space for his linemates.
Can you find me an NHL player that showed similar production in the CHL that is being played in that role? Every one I can think of had a considerably better junior-level "pedigree" and draft projection. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a huge asset to any team, I'm saying he's got a long way to go before becoming that asset and so far the development hasn't been overly promising.

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06-04-2014, 12:48 AM
  #459
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Can you find me an NHL player that showed similar production in the CHL that is being played in that role? Every one I can think of had a considerably better junior-level "pedigree" and draft projection. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a huge asset to any team, I'm saying he's got a long way to go before becoming that asset and so far the development hasn't been overly promising.
The only player that comes to mind would be Alex Burrows.

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06-04-2014, 01:01 AM
  #460
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Can you find me an NHL player that showed similar production in the CHL that is being played in that role? Every one I can think of had a considerably better junior-level "pedigree" and draft projection. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a huge asset to any team, I'm saying he's got a long way to go before becoming that asset and so far the development hasn't been overly promising.
Andrew Shaw, Bryan Bickell, Kyle Brodziak.

All of them are players that complement talented players very well, they're not there for their fancy moves, but to out-muscle opponents and retrieve possession. Big Mac is certainly not the best scorer, but when he's more mature I don't see many players being able to handle him along the boards. His goals will not come by pretty plays, it will be bang-bang ones, rebounds, deflections.

Throwing a big body like that in front of the net on PP adds a major threat.

I understand that his stats are underwhelming for you, they are for me too. But I believe that if Hunter had put more trust into him, it would have been a different story. I see where Hunter comes from with his decisions, he had a disgustingly stacked roster and could afford to bench a 1st rounder if that player didn't produce on most games. Not only were the Knight very deep offensively, they had a veteran lineup, guys that had been to two previous memorial cups.

On many OHL teams, McCarron would have been amongst the top6 by the holidays.

Another thing that I believe about Big Mac is that he'll look much better in the Pros than he does in Junior, time will tell if I'm right with this one.

Here's a little food for thought. How many Lucics type of player had there been prior to Boston's?

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06-04-2014, 05:45 AM
  #461
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Andrew Shaw, Bryan Bickell, Kyle Brodziak.

I understand that his stats are underwhelming for you, they are for me too. But I believe that if Hunter had put more trust into him, it would have been a different story. I see where Hunter comes from with his decisions, he had a disgustingly stacked roster and could afford to bench a 1st rounder if that player didn't produce on most games. Not only were the Knight very deep offensively, they had a veteran lineup, guys that had been to two previous memorial cups.
Thing is, the best grinders of this league has been at least really close to a PPG at the junior level. People underestimate the talent of the league. You still need the hockey sense to play in this league. Unless you are simply there to fight, all those grinders have had some relative success at the junior level.

And to be able to play a grinding role, I know he's young, but he really has to address that balance issues. That surely has to do with growing in that body of his, but you don't have any size advanage if you keep falling on the ice.

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06-04-2014, 07:56 AM
  #462
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I can't say I'm surprised that everyone is bashing McCarron...'cause that what we do around here....

Obviously they either haven't seen him play much, are looking at stats, have unrealistic expectations (most likely)....also they are forgetting one things about him...
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06-04-2014, 08:17 AM
  #463
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I can't say I'm surprised that everyone is bashing McCarron...'cause that what we do around here....

Obviously they either haven't seen him play much, are looking at stats, have unrealistic expectations (most likely)....also they are forgetting one things about him...
I find that those who have seen him the most (Knights fans) tend to bash him the most. But for sure, many have unrealistic expectations too. It's just what it is. He had a rough debut in the OHL, but the good thing is we get to turn the page and see what happens next, there's lots of time left.

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06-04-2014, 08:29 AM
  #464
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Yup.

McCarron will need a season, or two in the AHL.

People are disappointed in McCarron because he's not putting up huge numbers. Montreal wants him to be a player who they can put on the ice who can skate, hit people defend himself and teammates and can score, or set up plays.
There are 3 reasons for his mediocre numbers...1-he played on a very strong team and for most of the season wasn't top 6 or on the PP 2-he may have underestimated the pace and caliber of the OHL 3-he probably wasn't in as good a shape as he should have(at 237lbs). All 3 of those things can rectify themselves next year and he can put up 60-80 points in the OHL(+-10 points from his games played) and make the US U20 team.

I think that would change a lot of people's opinion of him.

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06-04-2014, 10:24 AM
  #465
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I'm looking forward to watching McCarron when he joins the Bulldogs maybe as early as the playoffs next season depending on London's play. But the thoughts of a top six in Hamilton, with JDLR, Crisp, Carr, McCarron, Andrighetto, Hudon & Gregoire, really sounds good, possibly with Lehkonen and Robbie Fabbri by then, giving them a top nine that could all become NHLers in the future. I just hope the defence is augmented with some Chelios (Jake) and Didier (Josh) too help the former Blades Thrower & Deitz with Pateryn & Bennett, then Fucale with Tokarski if he's not in Montreal by then.

Future of the Bulldogs & Habs, looks like heavy duty sunglasses at night may be necessary, not just for avoiding the media for a change!

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06-04-2014, 05:20 PM
  #466
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I find that those who have seen him the most (Knights fans) tend to bash him the most. But for sure, many have unrealistic expectations too. It's just what it is. He had a rough debut in the OHL, but the good thing is we get to turn the page and see what happens next, there's lots of time left.
Of all the forward prospects of the 2013 draft, McCarron is, I think, the prospect that was chosen in the first 3 rounds that has had the worst stats offensively. Him and John Hayden. Of course, some guys that plays in the SHL or KHL might have as well yet, proportions suggest that playing in a Men's league, is much tougher.....So frankly, the expectations weren't that high. Just the production that everybody had, even if it would have been a PPG or slighly below would have been enough.

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06-04-2014, 08:08 PM
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For the people who did watch him, he did get better though right?

I mean are we judging him on his early in the season adjustment period too? I don't think we can put too much stock in that.

From what I heard he did well in the Memorial Cup with next to no ice time.

How can you look at stats when he was used in a bottom 6 role on a pretty stacked team? He's gonna be used more next year. I think it'll be a way better indicator of what we have.

He seems to have the skill set to put up way more points than he did. I really think people are looking at him the wrong way.

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06-04-2014, 09:34 PM
  #468
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For the people who did watch him, he did get better though right?

I mean are we judging him on his early in the season adjustment period too? I don't think we can put too much stock in that.

From what I heard he did well in the Memorial Cup with next to no ice time.

How can you look at stats when he was used in a bottom 6 role on a pretty stacked team? He's gonna be used more next year. I think it'll be a way better indicator of what we have.

He seems to have the skill set to put up way more points than he did. I really think people are looking at him the wrong way.
He wasn't playing well at all at first, but it got better as the year went on. I loved what I saw at the Mem cup. He deserved much more ice time with the way he was given, but Hunter was going all in with his vets. We all know how that went for him.


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06-04-2014, 10:10 PM
  #469
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Andrew Shaw, Bryan Bickell, Kyle Brodziak.

All of them are players that complement talented players very well, they're not there for their fancy moves, but to out-muscle opponents and retrieve possession. Big Mac is certainly not the best scorer, but when he's more mature I don't see many players being able to handle him along the boards. His goals will not come by pretty plays, it will be bang-bang ones, rebounds, deflections.

Throwing a big body like that in front of the net on PP adds a major threat.

I understand that his stats are underwhelming for you, they are for me too. But I believe that if Hunter had put more trust into him, it would have been a different story. I see where Hunter comes from with his decisions, he had a disgustingly stacked roster and could afford to bench a 1st rounder if that player didn't produce on most games. Not only were the Knight very deep offensively, they had a veteran lineup, guys that had been to two previous memorial cups.

On many OHL teams, McCarron would have been amongst the top6 by the holidays.

Another thing that I believe about Big Mac is that he'll look much better in the Pros than he does in Junior, time will tell if I'm right with this one.

Here's a little food for thought. How many Lucics type of player had there been prior to Boston's?
I didn't say those players don't exist, I was wondering if any of these established players have shown the inability to produce like McCarron has. How is Andrew Shaw comparable to McCarron? They might have kind of similar roles but they don't have similar playing styles or abilities. Kyle Brodziak was a 7th round pick and isn't the same style of player.

Bickell, Lucic, Clowe, Neil, Wilson etc. These are the types of players people are projecting him to be. This is the type of player that is worth a 1st round pick. He doesn't measure up to any of them. He didn't score in the USHL and he doesn't score in the OHL. Why would he be even a complimentary scorer in the NHL? Why would he be a better pro? (These are honest questions, not rhetorical ones).

Though I find this type of stats evidence pretty telling, it's not just about production. For those who have watched him (me included) he is fully deserving of his role on the bottom lines and his poor production. He's not a great hockey player compared to his peers in London and throughout the league. Offensively and defensively he's unspectacular and for most of the year and for a large part of games, he wasn't even physically superior in front of the net or along the boards, something you'd expect from a guy playing with players half his size. He did not suddenly become a good hockey player after the half-way point of the season.

This (In my unprofessional opinion) is just how it is at this moment. I'm not saying he can't get better, I'm just saying he's not that good and is not following the typical development path of these great complimentary players we want him to be. I hope he does well and I hope he becomes a good hockey player, I just don't think it's very probable.


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06-04-2014, 10:11 PM
  #470
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Bergevin just confirmed it, Lefebvre's back next year.
was on vacation and I come home to this, now my summer is ruined. Going to be another long season in Hamilton for those that watch every game. yikes

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Lefebvre back is the worst news until Bouillon is re-signed. This sucks.
lol

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I wasn't expecting Bergevin to qualify him so it's not a big lost.
I thought he might get a QO, have never been impressed with him but he's got size and some jam with a decent defensive game, if only was quicker/more mobile. I wouldn't care if they cut him lose but it wouldn't hurt to give him his QO (unless I missed the deadline for qo's)

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I can't say I'm surprised that everyone is bashing McCarron...'cause that what we do around here....

Obviously they either haven't seen him play much, are looking at stats, have unrealistic expectations (most likely)....also they are forgetting one things about him...
One thing that bothers me about this site, take a look at the prospect and McCarron thread early into his OHL career and see how many posters seemed to be giddy with glee to talk about how bad he was doing. It got to the point that several people were asking them to stop posting in the prospect thread about him so much. Then take a look at the prospect thread in the 2nd half of the season, when he really started to play better and try to find where the bashers went.

I know that in today's world, everyone wants to think they are smart and they have the right answer or know what they are talking about. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've been here that I've seen posters making such matter of fact stances on their opinions while not even noticing that their opinion isn't even possible due to a various rule that they clearly don't seem to know exists.

I think aside from some bitter ex-Nords fans, some just want to go around patting themselves on the back while they say look at how smart I am so when the Habs don't draft the player they want then they act like spoiled children and just try to rub it in when said pick isn't doing well (but let's face it, what 1st round pick of Timmins hasn't been ripped to shreds around here at one point or another when things weren't going well for them- since every one of Timmins 1st rounder's has brought out the bashers in force at one point or another). Such is life though when you have the most rabid and largest fan base in the NHL, lot's of crazy and passionate fans that are going to offer their opinions.

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For the people who did watch him, he did get better though right?

I mean are we judging him on his early in the season adjustment period too? I don't think we can put too much stock in that.

From what I heard he did well in the Memorial Cup with next to no ice time.

How can you look at stats when he was used in a bottom 6 role on a pretty stacked team? He's gonna be used more next year. I think it'll be a way better indicator of what we have.

He seems to have the skill set to put up way more points than he did. I really think people are looking at him the wrong way.
I didn't get to see him as much at the end of the season and none at all in the playoffs/m cup but I actually thought he was impressive at the USA summer camp and in the first few games of his OHL career. Gets 4 pts in 4 games to start things off and then gets injured, returns and really struggles for the rest of 2013 as he went on to have 9 pts in 31 games. But in 2014 he ended up with 21 pts in 31 games so perhaps it was a mixture of the shoulder injury and the adjustment period of going from the USHL to what may be the best junior league in the world.

I saw a few of those games when he was struggling and it wasn't pretty at all. He looked lost at times, overmatched and struggled to make simple plays consistently. But prospect development usually goes through several stages and he's still in his early stages. Time will tell the tale though, he either will improve next year in the same footsteps as Tinordi (who also had many poor nights in his first season after moving from the USHL to the OHL), or he won't. All Hab fans should be hoping he does improve by a good bit, (I think he will, as I still really like what he might become for the Habs down the road) as we sorely need a big body with some skill that is more then willing to get his nose dirty come playoff time.

As for how to look at his stats, I'm no fan of stats, in fact I hate them as I want to see each prospect play as much as I can as I trust what I see as I've been playing/watching hockey for some 30 years and often watch 200/300 games a year, so after many years I've seen tons of games from all over the world. But in the case of McCarron, while I doubt anyone would say he had a good season, I also think people should throw out the stats and don't compare him to any previous CHLer as it's not fair since how many CHLers in the leagues history were 6'5 237 as 18 year olds that grew up playing hockey in the US and went from the USHL in his draft eligible year to what this season one might say is the best league of the trio. When looking at McCarron, he's going to have to show a lot of improvement over the next 5 or so years but at this point it's just so hard to predict what the Habs even have on their hands with him as you just don't see many kids his age that are his size (I also am no fan of height measurement, for me I'm looking at lower body core/mass/strength, balance, mobility for today's NHL, etc..)

So not only is it rare to see kids at the draft with his size but how many of them move up to a much higher level at 18. At this point in time to me he showed good things and he showed several concerning things, it's anyone's guess as to what the future holds for him down the road and I personally wouldn't put too much stock into his stats or how he struggled with the adjustment.


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06-04-2014, 10:28 PM
  #471
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was on vacation and I come home to this, now my summer is ruined. Going to be another long season in Hamilton for those that watch every game. yikes



lol



I thought he might get a QO, have never been impressed with him but he's got size and some jam with a decent defensive game, if only was quicker/more mobile. I wouldn't care if they cut him lose but it wouldn't hurt to give him his QO (unless I missed the deadline for qo's)



One thing that bothers me about this site, take a look at the prospect and McCarron thread early into his OHL career and see how many posters seemed to be giddy with glee to talk about how bad he was doing. It got to the point that several people were asking them to stop posting in the prospect thread about him so much. Then take a look at the prospect thread in the 2nd half of the season, when he really started to play better and try to find where the bashers went.

I know that in today's world, everyone wants to think they are smart and they have the right answer or know what they are talking about. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've been here that I've seen posters making such matter of fact stances on their opinions while not even noticing that their opinion isn't even possible due to a various rule that they clearly don't seem to know exists.

I think aside from some bitter ex-Nords fans, some just want to go around patting themselves on the back while they say look at how smart I am so when the Habs don't draft the player they want then they act like spoiled children and just try to rub it in when said pick isn't doing well (but let's face it, what 1st round pick of Timmins hasn't been ripped to shreds around here at one point or another when things weren't going well for them- since every one of Timmins 1st rounder's has brought out the bashers in force at one point or another). Such is life though when you have the most rabid and largest fan base in the NHL, lot's of crazy and passionate fans that are going to offer their opinions.



I didn't get to see him as much at the end of the season and none at all in the playoffs/m cup but I actually thought he was impressive at the USA summer camp and in the first few games of his OHL career. Gets 4 pts in 4 games to start things off and then gets injured, returns and really struggles for the rest of 2013 as he went on to have 9 pts in 31 games. But in 2014 he ended up with 21 pts in 31 games so perhaps it was a mixture of the shoulder injury and the adjustment period of going from the USHL to what may be the best junior league in the world.

I saw a few of those games when he was struggling and it wasn't pretty at all. He looked lost at times, overmatched and struggled to make simple plays consistently. But prospect development usually goes through several stages and he's still in his early stages. Time will tell the tale though, he either will improve next year in the same footsteps as Tinordi who also had many poor nights in his first season after moving from the USHL to the OHL, or he won't. All Hab fans should be hoping he does improve by a good bit, I think he will, as I still really like what he might become for the Habs down the road as we sorely need a big body with some skill that is more then willing to get his nose dirty come playoff time.

As for how to look at his stats, I'm no fan of stats, in fact I hate them as I want to see each prospect play as much as I can. But in the case of McCarron, while I doubt anyone would say he had a good season, I also think people should throw out the stats and don't compare him to any previous CHLer as it's not fair since how many CHLers in the leagues history were 6'5 237 as 18 year olds that grew up playing hockey in the US and went from the USHL in his draft eligible year to what this season one might say is the best league of the trio. When looking at McCarron, he's going to have to show a lot of improvement over the next 5 or so years but at this point it's just so hard to predict what the Habs even have on their hands with him as you just don't see many kids his age that are his size (I also am no fan of height measurement, for me I'm looking at lower body core/mass/strength, balance, mobility for today's NHL, etc..)

So not only is it rare to see kids at the draft with his size but how many of them move up to a much higher level at 18. At this point in time to me he showed good things and he showed several concerning things, it's anyone's guess as to what the future holds for him down the road and I personally wouldn't put too much stock into his stats or how he struggled with the adjustment.
My only issue with your assessment here is that you suggest throwing out stats for the season but then you base your opinion of his improvement in the second half ....... on stats. Doesn't make much sense. As you mentioned, there are very few prospects like him. So we compare him as best we can to former prospects and players.

I don't see any of this as "bashing". For me, I follow prospects primarily to see what kind of team we can have in the future. A large part of seeing what type of players we will have is based on attempting to analyze or be critical of our prospects. Really as simple as that. I didn't like McCarron pre-draft, really liked him during our camp, liked him in his first couple of games, was really unimpressed throughout the year, and had tempered excitement seeing him play competent hockey in the playoffs. I'm not biased one way or another, I want to see him succeed and be an incredible power forward for the Habs.....

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06-04-2014, 10:38 PM
  #472
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I didn't say those players don't exist, I was wondering if any of these established players have shown the inability to produce like McCarron has. How is Andrew Shaw comparable to McCarron? They might have kind of similar roles but they don't have similar playing styles or abilities. Kyle Brodziak was a 7th round pick and isn't the same style of player.

Bickell, Lucic, Clowe, Neil, Wilson etc. These are the types of players people are projecting him to be. This is the type of player that is worth a 1st round pick. He doesn't measure up to any of them. He didn't score in the USHL and he doesn't score in the OHL. Why would he be even a complimentary scorer in the NHL? Why would he be a better pro?

Though I find this type of stats evidence pretty telling, it's not just about production. For those who have watched him (me included) he is fully deserving of his role on the bottom lines and his poor production. He's not a great hockey player compared to his peers in London and throughout the league. Offensively and defensively he's unspectacular and for most of the year and for a large part of games, he wasn't even physically superior in front of the net or along the boards, something you'd expect from a guy playing with players half his size. He did not suddenly become a good hockey player after the half-way point of the season.

This (In my unprofessional opinion) is the truth at this moment. I'm not saying he can't get better, I'm just saying he's not that good and is not following the typical development path of these great complimentary players we want him to be. I hope he does well and I hope he becomes a good hockey player, I just don't think it's very probable.
6'5'' 230+ lbs is not your typical player either.

I think he'll be a better Pro because he already plays like a Pro. Unlike a lot of junior scorers, he will not lose his advantage over the others in the Pros, he'll still be towering most players. The type of goals he scores are goals that are scored in the Pros. He also excels in very important aspects of hockey in the NHL, keeping the puck away from your opponent, winning puck battles. He knows what he has to do, he drives the net, he engages physically and he's the first man in on the forecheck.

Many players that outproduced him this year might not have the career he will. Teams are not drafting the best player for the following year, but for 5 years down the road.

He hit a bump in the road early this season and had a lot of trouble to adjust, but he settled in, learned and improved. Seeing him playing well at the Memorial cup was nice to see too.

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06-04-2014, 11:06 PM
  #473
montreal
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My only issue with your assessment here is that you suggest throwing out stats for the season but then you base your opinion of his improvement in the second half ....... on stats. Doesn't make much sense. As you mentioned, there are very few prospects like him. So we compare him as best we can to former prospects and players.

I don't see any of this as "bashing". For me, I follow prospects primarily to see what kind of team we can have in the future. A large part of seeing what type of players we will have is based on attempting to analyze or be critical of our prospects. Really as simple as that. I didn't like McCarron pre-draft, really liked him during our camp, liked him in his first couple of games, was really unimpressed throughout the year, and had tempered excitement seeing him play competent hockey in the playoffs. I'm not biased one way or another, I want to see him succeed and be an incredible power forward for the Habs.....
yes I don't care for stats but they are there. I watched him play throughout the regular season so I know that he looked better in the 2nd half but thought some might cheer up at the fact that at least his stats were much better in 2014 then they were in 2013 in the OHL.

as for bashing, did you go back and read the prospect thread from the start of the year, cause that's what I'm talking about not now.

Perhaps we will see more of the same with the 2014 1st round pick, after said draft fans get disappointed that their team didn't pick the guy that they just know is the right pick. Then we can watch them bash the pick if he struggles at the start of next season. It reminds me so much of Tinordigate 2010-2011 when fans were ready to give up on Tinordi after his struggles. Some just need to relax a bit and give it time instead of rushing to a decision on who is a bust or not.

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06-05-2014, 12:39 AM
  #474
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What are your lines?

Thomas - AHLer (Newbury?) - Andrighetto
Blunden - Dumont - Leblanc
Holland - de la Rose - Hudon
Crisp - Nevins - Fournier

Bennett - Pateryn
Drewiske - Ellis
AHLer (Janik?) - Dietz

Condon
McIntyre

ECHL - Thrower

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06-05-2014, 01:05 AM
  #475
DAChampion
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Why do big players need a longer learning period?

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