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The All-Encompassing Mike Gillis Thread - Part III

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:15 PM
  #26
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by stuffradio View Post
What are the odds we go from Torts to Trots?
Sounds like a lateral move. We'd be better off giving Torts the opportunity to try and change up his strategies, given that at least he's had some experience with what doesn't work with this group. It would be absurd to fire Torts and bring on Trotz only to go through a repeat of this season while he "learns the ropes" so to speak.

I think Gillis mentioned giving Tortorella the opportunity to adjust, and I think that's the best option right now.

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04-03-2014, 02:16 PM
  #27
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Because Boston and LA happened.

Canucks should have just kept the Blackhawks blueprint of speed and skill. That was such entertaining hockey.
You can't replicate having two 1st lines and a Norris caliber defenseman through playing a certain system. The Canucks simply don't have the skill of the Blackhawks and had no way to acquire it in the short term.

Age is another factor. Look at how old the guys who are leading the top offensive teams in the league are. Without fail the average age of the top forwards on those teams is in the 25-28 range while the Canucks are led by the Sedins (33), Burrows (32), Higgins (29), and Kesler (29).

The Canucks don't need a new system, they need a rebuild.

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04-03-2014, 02:16 PM
  #28
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AV dialed back the offense after the Finals. Gillis is culpable of going along with it.

Quote:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hoc...ful-thing.html
The second change the coaching staff made was asking forwards to play deeper in the defensive end than before. At their attacking best, the Canucks were known for "blowing the zone," allowing forwards to break for offensive opportunities before the puck was cleared.

That doesn't happen as often. In an effort to defend some of the bigger lines and teams, the Canucks cover the points less in an effort to swarm the opposition down low. That's improved defensive-zone coverage, but makes it harder to score.

It's a major reason why the Canucks stand 16th overall in goals scored, which would be their lowest season-ending position since 2008. Sedin sees it as a fair tradeoff. He likes this team.
Torts had it dialed back in his own way, too. Chip and chase. Lots of dump ins and less puck possession. For him, dumping it in was preferable to circling back to your own zone with the puck back. Going to 'full transition game puck possession' could not be further from Tortorella hockey. He's gone.


Last edited by Wisp: 04-03-2014 at 02:22 PM.
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Old
04-03-2014, 02:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Sounds like a lateral move. We'd be better off giving Torts the opportunity to try and change up his strategies, given that at least he's had some experience with what doesn't work with this group. It would be absurd to fire Torts and bring on Trotz only to go through a repeat of this season while he "learns the ropes" so to speak.

I think Gillis mentioned giving Tortorella the opportunity to adjust, and I think that's the best option right now.
Torts will be given the remaining games this season and a few meetings after the season to convince Gillis that he can effectively change the style of play and system the Canucks are playing to what Gillis wants.

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04-03-2014, 02:18 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
You can't replicate having two 1st lines and a Norris caliber defenseman through playing a certain system. The Canucks simply don't have the skill of the Blackhawks and had no way to acquire it in the short term.

Age is another factor. Look at how old the guys who are leading the top offensive teams in the league are. Without fail the average age of the top forwards on those teams is in the 25-28 range while the Canucks are led by the Sedins (33), Burrows (32), Higgins (29), and Kesler (29).

The Canucks don't need a new system, they need a rebuild.
Yep. I realise my posts sound like a knock on our guys, but its more this.

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:19 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
You can't replicate having two 1st lines and a Norris caliber defenseman through playing a certain system. The Canucks simply don't have the skill of the Blackhawks and had no way to acquire it in the short term.

Age is another factor. Look at how old the guys who are leading the top offensive teams in the league are. Without fail the average age of the top forwards on those teams is in the 25-28 range while the Canucks are led by the Sedins (33), Burrows (32), Higgins (29), and Kesler (29).

The Canucks don't need a new system, they need a rebuild.
They need both.

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:20 PM
  #32
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What did gillis say on the radio?

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:21 PM
  #33
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What did gillis say on the radio?
Everything, remarkable interview. Bashed himself, bashed the style he wanted to go in, and wants to go back to his roots.

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
The Canucks don't need a new system, they need a rebuild.
whether they need a rebuild or not, what's being played now obviously isn't helping them win and it certainly isn't entertaining.

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:32 PM
  #35
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I was on the side that wanted to keep Gillis before, but this interview really solidified my belief in the management team and where they want to go. Watching this team slog up the ice this year and dump and chase in the offensive zone has been infuriating. It's really nice to know that they want to get back to puck possession high tempo hockey.

Reading between the lines Gillis called for autonomy from ownership and expects to either get that or get fired at the end of the season. At one point in the interview Gillis states "We'll go through a thorough plan of where we see we have to go and they'll make a decision about which route they choose. He went on to say "I'm not in this to hang around" when speaking in the context of sharing responsibilities. It also sounds to me like he is willing to give Tortorella a second chance if and only if he will change the way he coaches.

I also like that he said they will only spend the cap they have on UFA's that fit long term. I was worried they might spend to the cap just to spend to the cap.

This interview was comforting in the sense that Gillis obviously sees the problems that this team face and how to address them, but it is worrying in that it sounds like ownership may make a knee jerk reaction and possibly take even more of a hand in hockey decisions if they do fire Gillis.

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04-03-2014, 02:35 PM
  #36
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I'm with those who say an injection of youth is really the only way to go.

But that said, a coach who can bring a puck possession game is going to be more successful with the players we retain going forward.

No to Trotz, although Boucher does still intrigue me. Who's the coach for Grand Rapids? Looks like that guy should get promoted.

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04-03-2014, 02:37 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyBoy View Post

Reading between the lines Gillis called for autonomy from ownership and expects to either get that or get fired at the end of the season. At one point in the interview Gillis states "We'll go through a thorough plan of where we see we have to go and they'll make a decision about which route they choose. He went on to say "I'm not in this to hang around" when speaking in the context of sharing responsibilities. It also sounds to me like he is willing to give Tortorella a second chance if and only if he will change the way he coaches.
I read it exactly the same way.

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:43 PM
  #38
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I'm still struggling with the idea that you can get to game 7 of the finals and conclude you're not built to win.
Good thing Sutter (as a GM of the Flames) shared that opinion.

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Old
04-03-2014, 02:43 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
I'm with those who say an injection of youth is really the only way to go.
I agree. If the new coach is a keeper, watch out for his year two. I like the Canucks farm these days.

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:00 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
I'm with those who say an injection of youth is really the only way to go.

But that said, a coach who can bring a puck possession game is going to be more successful with the players we retain going forward.

No to Trotz, although Boucher does still intrigue me. Who's the coach for Grand Rapids? Looks like that guy should get promoted.
Jeff Blashill

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:02 PM
  #41
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Puck Daddy's take on Gillis' interview today:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nh...181146751.html

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:08 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Just A Bit Outside View Post
Puck Daddy's take on Gillis' interview today:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nh...181146751.html
Wyshynski nailed it. He didn't get distracted by the "I don't know if I'll be here next year" quote and wrote about the real story which is Gillis' change in direction and whether or not Torts fits into this "new" plan.

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:13 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
AV dialed back the offense after the Finals. Gillis is culpable of going along with it.

Torts had it dialed back in his own way, too. Chip and chase. Lots of dump ins and less puck possession. For him, dumping it in was preferable to circling back to your own zone with the puck back. Going to 'full transition game puck possession' could not be further from Tortorella hockey. He's gone.
Yes, and Gillis admitted his culpability about being swayed by Bruins/LA style despite not having the personnel to play that way. Remains to be seen if Nucks can get back to up tempo with rapidly declining top 6. I doubt it. It will take new players (mostly kids) and 2-3 years to implement it.

Other takes:
- realizes that this town doesn't dig emphasis on D, low-scoring non entertaining hockey (as Burkie did so long ago)
- Torts is toast
- Kesler is gone no matter what he says (best asset that brings back value to get fans talking)
- circle the wagons time - talks tough to up his "strong man" and firmly in charge image (in light of ownership interference rumours)


Last edited by Trelane: 04-03-2014 at 03:20 PM.
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Old
04-03-2014, 03:14 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Wyshynski nailed it. He didn't get distracted by the "I don't know if I'll be here next year" quote and wrote about the real story which is Gillis' change in direction and whether or not Torts fits into this "new" plan.
Interesting thought of Torts changing his coaching strategy. I don't see it, but would be interesting for sure. You would think coaches of that level would be able to change systems no problem

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:31 PM
  #45
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Tough to fault Gillis for changing his vision to the broadstreet bullies after the Boston final. The Canucks were top 3 in every single category, top 1 powerplay and was a team in its own league.

We make teams pay for cheap shots on the PP.

In the cup final, a lot of calls weren't going our way. When you take out our best weapon, it's going to be hard to win.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but I don't think the Canucks can go from #1 in the regular season, to only scoring 8 goals in 7 cup final games. There's definitely a bit of bias towards Boston. I admit the best team did win the cup, but not without some help along the way.

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:32 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by mangdas View Post
Interesting thought of Torts changing his coaching strategy. I don't see it, but would be interesting for sure. You would think coaches of that level would be able to change systems no problem
Torts probably could change his style, but I don't see any evidence that he would. He'd first have to admit there was a problem with the way he coached the team this year. So far, he's pretty much buried his head in the sand.

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
Tough to fault Gillis for changing his vision to the broadstreet bullies after the Boston final. The Canucks were top 3 in every single category, top 1 powerplay and was a team in its own league.

We make teams pay for cheap shots on the PP.

In the cup final, a lot of calls weren't going our way. When you take out our best weapon, it's going to be hard to win.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but I don't think the Canucks can go from #1 in the regular season, to only scoring 8 goals in 7 cup final games. There's definitely a bit of bias towards Boston. I admit the best team did win the cup, but not without some help along the way.
With the number of injuries that piled up, I can't see how any style they played would have been successful in the series.

People also point out the 8 goals issue, but you can't discount the fact that they got terrible goaltending from Luongo. It's pretty hard to score goals when your goalie gives up bad early goals and then you have to try to claw back from a hole against a really good defensive team.

When they tried to change things up in 2012 and 2013 playoffs, the results were even worse. That should have been enough of a lesson, but unfortunately they doubled down with Torts.

That being said, I don't think a coaching change was the worst bet. You find out if the team responds to a new coach, and if the results aren't good, you know what you need to do. The real hubris was giving Torts that 5 year big money deal.

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:38 PM
  #48
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Torts probably could change his style, but I don't see any evidence that he would. He'd first have to admit there was a problem with the way he coached the team this year. So far, he's pretty much buried his head in the sand.
It's called the Ostrich algorithm.

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:47 PM
  #49
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Torts probably could change his style, but I don't see any evidence that he would. He'd first have to admit there was a problem with the way he coached the team this year. So far, he's pretty much buried his head in the sand.
That's one thing I'll give AV credit for. Gillis asked him to coach an up tempo game and he adapted despite his reputation as a defensive coach. He's done well in NY too. It was time for a change here, IMO, but AV was much more adaptable than Torts appears to be.

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:51 PM
  #50
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Wyshynski nailed it. He didn't get distracted by the "I don't know if I'll be here next year" quote and wrote about the real story which is Gillis' change in direction and whether or not Torts fits into this "new" plan.
Agree with this poster and agree with what Wyshynski wrote. The Canucks suck this year because the team is not built to play the type of game they are now playing. This is not a dump-and-chase team.

When all your best players are having a disastrous season, it clearly signals a system-wide problem. The new tougher division and the rash of injuries didn't help, but both are not enough to explain the rapid downfall of the team.

On an unrelated note: for those who complained about Gillis not trading Luongo a year early and retain Schneider, do you know that the Luongo trade was possible this year ONLY because the Panthers has a new owner and he has to spend closer to the cap in order to get a better arena lease?

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/0...2-proud-2-beg/

In short, that Luongo trade COULD NOT have happened in 2013. It happened in 2014 because the Panther's owner suddenly need to spend more, and Lu's contract is now an asset rather than a deterrent.

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