HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The All-Encompassing Mike Gillis Thread - Part III

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-03-2014, 03:56 PM
  #51
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
That's one thing I'll give AV credit for. Gillis asked him to coach an up tempo game and he adapted despite his reputation as a defensive coach. He's done well in NY too. It was time for a change here, IMO, but AV was much more adaptable than Torts appears to be.
Too bad AV stopped adapting....

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 03:58 PM
  #52
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,870
vCash: 500
Brad Zeimer article on the interview - Canucks’ new style to blame for team’s struggles: GM Mike Gillis - Team must change its style of play, he says, in apparent knock at coach John Tortorella’s system.
In a revealing interview with Team 1040 radio Thursday morning, Gillis seemed to suggest that the more defensive style adopted this season by coach John Tortorella is largely to blame for the team's struggles.

"When you have an entire team's level of performance drop off there has to be reasons for it," Gillis said.
...
"I want us to play an upbeat, puck-possession, move the puck quickly, force teams into mistakes, high-transition game," he said. "And I think we have the personnel to do it and if we don't have the personnel to do it they will be changed.

"That's my vision. That's how I believe you are going to win in the Western Conference and the National Hockey League. Look at the top teams in the West. There isn't a lot that separates any of the teams in the West, but the top teams play that way. That's the way we played and in playing that way we made a lot of enemies, but we had the success that we wanted to have. And that's the style that we are going to get back to and that is the way I want to see out team play."
...
"Six years ago people thought Alain Vigneault couldn't change from a defensive-style coach to an offensive-style coach. If given the resources and if the players are committed to it, I think any coach can coach the team that he has. Having said that, our problems are far-reaching and they will be addressed. If people don't want to get onside with how I view this team and how it is supposed to play, then they won't be here."
...
Gillis's comments could clearly be interpreted as a my-way-or-the-highway ultimatum to Tortorella, whose job clearly appears to be on the line.
IMHO Tortorella is unwilling or unable to change and he will hopefully be history.

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 03:58 PM
  #53
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Too bad AV stopped adapting....
Some of the comments from Gillis make me believe that the fault was not with AV. Based on this year's performance you could certainly argue that AV did a remarkable job with what he had. Not surprisingly he's done well in NY as well. The winningest coach we've had although I do agree that every coach appears to have a shelf life.
Toe Blake excepted of course. Even Scotty Bowman had to move around once in a while.

vanwest is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:00 PM
  #54
Ernie
Registered User
 
Ernie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,714
vCash: 500
Another way to look at it is that Gillis is setting the tone for if he should be fired.

He has a 259-143-41 record as GM, two President's Trophies, and a Finals appearance. He wouldn't be unemployed for long.

The Canucks would be lucky to find a replacement as qualified as he is.

Ernie is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:01 PM
  #55
CalgaryCanuck03
@calgarycanuck03
 
CalgaryCanuck03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Too bad AV stopped adapting....
AV adapted and played the high tempo game up until the cup final.

After that when Gillis started to shift his approach, AV did as well. Which started the fall to where the Canucks are now.

CalgaryCanuck03 is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:04 PM
  #56
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Another way to look at it is that Gillis is setting the tone for if he should be fired.

He has a 259-143-41 record as GM, two President's Trophies, and a Finals appearance. He wouldn't be unemployed for long.

The Canucks would be lucky to find a replacement as qualified as he is.
The only thing I can measure him against is our last two GM's before him. I'd be happy if Gillis was given a couple more years.

vanwest is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:05 PM
  #57
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
AV adapted and played the high tempo game up until the cup final.

After that when Gillis started to shift his approach, AV did as well. Which started the fall to where the Canucks are now.
AV didn't have the personnel (or the players weren't ready yet at that point in time) for him to employ anything other than the strategy he used early on with the Canucks. Same for the time he was coach of the Habs. Injuries hurt his team then too.

What really killed us was the lack of players from the farm being able to compete for major spots in the lineup (especially in the case of injuries). That and our goaltending stopped carrying the team.

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:06 PM
  #58
Pure West
Registered User
 
Pure West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,698
vCash: 500
I don't like how he's just throwing his coach under the bus here to shift the blame away from him. The youth isn't there to step up, and the organizational depth is just pitiful. That's Gillis' fault alone, not Tortorella. There's plenty of farm systems out there that have managed to develop decent players who can step into the lineup when called upon even on historically successful teams. But who gets called up when there's an injury on the Canucks? Darren Archibald? Pascal Pelletier?

What team was he watching last year? That team was awful and only in the playoffs because of elite goaltending and an easy division. In terms of team play, I hardly think last year's team was all that much better than this one.....at least if you average out performances for the whole season.

Pure West is online now  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:06 PM
  #59
CalgaryCanuck03
@calgarycanuck03
 
CalgaryCanuck03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Another way to look at it is that Gillis is setting the tone for if he should be fired.

He has a 259-143-41 record as GM, two President's Trophies, and a Finals appearance. He wouldn't be unemployed for long.

The Canucks would be lucky to find a replacement as qualified as he is.
Gillis basically laid the groundwork for his future with the club.

If he's not fired, we have a firm direction of the direction of the club, but if he's not, he's going out on his sword.

CalgaryCanuck03 is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:10 PM
  #60
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure West View Post
I don't like how he's just throwing his coach under the bus here to shift the blame away from him. The youth isn't there to step up, and the organizational depth is just pitiful. That's Gillis' fault alone, not Tortorella.

What team was he watching last year? That team was awful and only in the playoffs because of elite goaltending and an easy division. In terms of team play, I hardly think last year's team was all that much better than this one.....at least you you average out performances for the whole season.
This year's team played the most unwatchable hockey of any Canuck team I've ever seen. I agree that all of the blame shouldn't go on Torts but when almost every single player seems to have regressed so quickly the coach needs to take some of the blame. He rode Kesler and the Sedins into the ground.

vanwest is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:11 PM
  #61
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Another way to look at it is that Gillis is setting the tone for if he should be fired.

He has a 259-143-41 record as GM, two President's Trophies, and a Finals appearance. He wouldn't be unemployed for long.

The Canucks would be lucky to find a replacement as qualified as he is.
Aquilini won't find another good candidate that's willing to work past his meddling. The best candidates will wait for other jobs.


Last edited by Wisp: 04-03-2014 at 04:29 PM.
Wisp is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:12 PM
  #62
Alan Jackson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure West View Post
I don't like how he's just throwing his coach under the bus here to shift the blame away from him. The youth isn't there to step up, and the organizational depth is just pitiful. That's Gillis' fault alone, not Tortorella. There's plenty of farm systems out there that have managed to develop decent players who can step into the lineup when called upon even on historically successful teams. But who gets called up when there's an injury on the Canucks? Darren Archibald? Pascal Pelletier?

What team was he watching last year? That team was awful and only in the playoffs because of elite goaltending and an easy division. In terms of team play, I hardly think last year's team was all that much better than this one.....at least if you average out performances for the whole season.
I agree. It sounds like he's making excuses. Again.

It's too bad he already used "It was a really weird year" last year, because that would be a good one for him to roll out after this season.

Alan Jackson is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:12 PM
  #63
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
This year's team played the most unwatchable hockey of any Canuck team I've ever seen. I agree that all of the blame shouldn't go on Torts but when almost every single player seems to have regressed so quickly the coach needs to take some of the blame. He rode Kesler and the Sedins into the ground.
Oddly enough, it seems most of the so-called core veterans regressed the most (Edler mainted the same level of medicority); while the other "supporting cast" didn't (Kassian, Santorelli, Stanton, Tanev).

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:16 PM
  #64
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
I agree. It sounds like he's making excuses. Again.

It's too bad he already used "It was a really weird year" last year, because that would be a good one for him to roll out after this season.
I thought he took his share of responsibility.
But talk is cheap. The test will be what he actually does this summer. We took a big step improving our prospect pool last year. We need to do the same this year. If he just hangs onto the same core then I won't be impressed.

vanwest is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:34 PM
  #65
CalgaryCanuck03
@calgarycanuck03
 
CalgaryCanuck03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
I agree. It sounds like he's making excuses. Again.

It's too bad he already used "It was a really weird year" last year, because that would be a good one for him to roll out after this season.
Gillis did take some of the blame, and wasnt' the arrogant man we've become accustomed to.

I didnt' hear excuses at all honestly. He stated that the vision and direction wasn't correct and that he wants to fix it. How is that an excuse?

CalgaryCanuck03 is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:43 PM
  #66
Alan Jackson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Gillis did take some of the blame, and wasnt' the arrogant man we've become accustomed to.

I didnt' hear excuses at all honestly. He stated that the vision and direction wasn't correct and that he wants to fix it. How is that an excuse?
It sounded to me like he was suggesting the roster is fine, and only the style of play needs to change.

The style might needed changing, but in my opinion the roster isn't good enough. I think firing the coach is fine, but I don't think it solves the core issue, which is that Gillis has failed at his job.

Alan Jackson is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:45 PM
  #67
Ernie
Registered User
 
Ernie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
It sounded to me like he was suggesting the roster is fine, and only the style of play needs to change.

The style might needed changing, but in my opinion the roster isn't good enough. I think firing the coach is fine, but I don't think it solves the core issue, which is that Gillis has failed at his job.
Except he hasn't said the roster is good, and that the team needs to re-tool with younger players.

Ernie is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:48 PM
  #68
Alan Jackson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Except he hasn't said the roster is good, and that the team needs to re-tool with younger players.
"I want us to play an upbeat, puck-possession, move the puck quickly, force teams into mistakes, high-transition game," he said. "And I think we have the personnel to do it and if we don't have the personnel to do it they will be changed."

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...#ixzz2xrHZg3h7

Alan Jackson is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:51 PM
  #69
CalgaryCanuck03
@calgarycanuck03
 
CalgaryCanuck03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
It sounded to me like he was suggesting the roster is fine, and only the style of play needs to change.

The style might needed changing, but in my opinion the roster isn't good enough. I think firing the coach is fine, but I don't think it solves the core issue, which is that Gillis has failed at his job.
Ehh... maybe a bit, but he also said he would move out players that he didn't think could play the way he wants the Canucks to play.

I'm not saying that Gillis hasn't failed at his job at this point but I'm saying what he said in the interview and the direction he wants to take the team after this season is something to look forward to.

Going forward with Gillis with this direction is a much better option than firing Gillis and going forward with Torts and his dump/chase style.

CalgaryCanuck03 is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 04:52 PM
  #70
Lundface*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
"I want us to play an upbeat, puck-possession, move the puck quickly, force teams into mistakes, high-transition game," he said. "And I think we have the personnel to do it and if we don't have the personnel to do it they will be changed."

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...#ixzz2xrHZg3h7
Yet you left the line right after unbolded? He is saying it's time to find out which guys can/can't play the system he wants to....kind of like he did when he first came in. Tons of the old guard bit the dust right when Gillis came in, as did guys that he brought in that wouldn't be able to play the system he wanted ( O'Brien, Bernier). He did it once, I have no issue giving him that chance again.

Lundface* is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 05:00 PM
  #71
tantalum
Registered User
 
tantalum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 14,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
As weird as it may sound though, Dallas Eakins probably would've been a better fit for Vancouver and Tortorella a better fit for Edmonton. Now that we have time to see both coach in the West.

Edmonton has more offensive power, but defensively, they are a mess. Would've been beneficial if they had a defense-first coach. Torts doesn't coach the powerplay and Edmonton is creative enough for that.

Whereas Dallas Eakins would've had a better transition to the NHL if he led a veteran group. Eakins wouldn't have to 'control' the group as much. The Canucks functioned best when AV let the core leadership run the room.

But Guy Boucher would be my vote.
I can see the Torts argument to some degree. But not the Eakins argument. Veteran group or young group he is the type who is going to control and try everything he can to control. For goodness sakes he wants to control what the media eats!


Gillis....I don't think his intent was ever to go to some lumbering bruising team that forgot what made them what they were. You look at the bulk of his additions and they can skate. Kassian isn't just a big body. He's a big body that can skate. So is Booth. I think he was looking to beef up the team while not taking a hit or too much of a hit in speed. I think that premise is sound. Clearly the right pieces weren't found yet or they were but due to injury haven't provided what was thought or coaching has effed things up or (likely) it is some combination of everything).


Last edited by tantalum: 04-03-2014 at 05:06 PM.
tantalum is online now  
Old
04-03-2014, 05:01 PM
  #72
mangdas
Registered User
 
mangdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thGuest View Post
Agree with this poster and agree with what Wyshynski wrote. The Canucks suck this year because the team is not built to play the type of game they are now playing. This is not a dump-and-chase team.

When all your best players are having a disastrous season, it clearly signals a system-wide problem. The new tougher division and the rash of injuries didn't help, but both are not enough to explain the rapid downfall of the team.

On an unrelated note: for those who complained about Gillis not trading Luongo a year early and retain Schneider, do you know that the Luongo trade was possible this year ONLY because the Panthers has a new owner and he has to spend closer to the cap in order to get a better arena lease?

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/0...2-proud-2-beg/

In short, that Luongo trade COULD NOT have happened in 2013. It happened in 2014 because the Panther's owner suddenly need to spend more, and Lu's contract is now an asset rather than a deterrent.
After reading this article people who are ranting we got a bad deal for Luongo should give their head a shake. If it weren't for the Panthers this year only, nobody would have dealt for him.

mangdas is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 05:21 PM
  #73
Alan Jackson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,001
vCash: 500
Bob Nicholson has stepped down from his position at Hockey Canada. Would he be a candidate to replace Gillis?

Alan Jackson is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 05:25 PM
  #74
Proto
Registered User
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,508
vCash: 833
Love that fire from Gillis. He seems annoyed about this season and the coach that appears to have been foisted upon him.

If Gillis is fired, I hope the Leafs fire Nonis and replace him (for the second time) with Gillis. That would be #*&@ing hysterical.

Proto is offline  
Old
04-03-2014, 05:26 PM
  #75
Proto
Registered User
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,508
vCash: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
Bob Nicholson has stepped down from his position at Hockey Canada. Would he be a candidate to replace Gillis?
Ugh. Ugh times infinity.

Proto is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.