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Stupid Madden, Rossi, Anderson et al Tricks Pt. II

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04-14-2014, 02:39 PM
  #176
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I want to be really careful what I say here, but I have more of a problem when women, in referencing a sport like hockey, use words like "soft" to describe an athlete.

It's not like I don't have a problem with a dweeb like Rossi questioning a player's toughness, but I have an even bigger problem when a 110 pound woman does it.
I understand what you're saying and I don't find it offensive. As a 5'3" woman I'm not calling out a pro hockey player for being soft when I couldn't withstand a fraction of what they go through. I've competed with injuries in other sports, but having never played a contact sport it's really not my place to be calling someone out when I can't back it up.

Edit: I reserve the right to make heated comments calling players out.

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04-14-2014, 03:04 PM
  #177
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Eh. On the radio last night Bourque was...dancing around it...but basically called the team's grit factor completely unacceptable with only Glass standing up to Chris Neil at any point. In the third, especially, when Neil was riding Maata around like a donkey, he was getting pretty mad about the lack of reaction from guys like Zolnierczyk, Sutter, Kobasew, Pyatt, etc. Adams got in Turris' face once, but that's not enough.

To me, that means much, much more from him than it would from Shelly. Though if Rossi has said it, it would still mean nothing.
Megna got in Neil's face more than anyone outside of Glass. That is pretty sad.

Also, that damn Sutter. Such a soft game from him in the press box last night.

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04-14-2014, 03:09 PM
  #178
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Eh. On the radio last night Bourque was...dancing around it...but basically called the team's grit factor completely unacceptable with only Glass standing up to Chris Neil at any point. In the third, especially, when Neil was riding Maata around like a donkey, he was getting pretty mad about the lack of reaction from guys like Zolnierczyk, Sutter, Kobasew, Pyatt, etc. Adams got in Turris' face once, but that's not enough.

To me, that means much, much more from him than it would from Shelly. Though if Rossi has said it, it would still mean nothing.
Part of it is personnel, and while I should know better, I think part of it is an organizational thing.

They really, really would rather the Pens be Detroit. Not soft necessarily, but a team that doesn't get involved in that stuff because they're too good for it.

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04-14-2014, 03:11 PM
  #179
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Megna got in Neil's face more than anyone outside of Glass. That is pretty sad.

Also, that damn Sutter. Such a soft game from him in the press box last night.
Whoops. I don't know, Bourque had a long list of guys he was upset about not sticking up for Maata. Thought Sutter was one of them, but I guess I was wrong considering he definitely did not play.

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04-14-2014, 03:12 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by MeticulouslyDishevel View Post
I understand what you're saying and I don't find it offensive. As a 5'3" woman I'm not calling out a pro hockey player for being soft when I couldn't withstand a fraction of what they go through. I've competed with injuries in other sports, but having never played a contact sport it's really not my place to be calling someone out when I can't back it up.

Edit: I reserve the right to make heated comments calling players out.
Oh, it's different for the average fan at home amongst a gaggle of friends.

It's different for someone with a public forum whose job it is to cover the team to do it.

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04-14-2014, 03:12 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Eh. On the radio last night Bourque was...dancing around it...but basically called the team's grit factor completely unacceptable with only Glass standing up to Chris Neil at any point. In the third, especially, when Neil was riding Maata around like a donkey, he was getting pretty mad about the lack of reaction from guys like Zolnierczyk, Sutter, Kobasew, Pyatt, etc. Adams got in Turris' face once, but that's not enough.

To me, that means much, much more from him than it would from Shelly. Though if Rossi has said it, it would still mean nothing.
The first 2 aren't tough, so little good it does for them to challenge Neil. That's not a knock on them; that's just the case. I think there are plenty of examples of teams - Red Wings - that have plenty of players who aren't tough, but are still successful. I'd rather Sutter not try anything as he's a pole. I'd rather Harry Z not react and instead proactively try to annoy, pester, and disrupt (I think Vitale already showed why Harry Z shouldn't be an enforcer).

The latter 2 - that's kind of their M.O. - along with Adams that's one of the more frustrating aspects about bringing Pyatt and Kobasew on - they're not tough, they're not skilled, and they're slow. Expecting them to suddenly be tough is unrealistic.

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04-14-2014, 03:13 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Part of it is personnel, and while I should know better, I think part of it is an organizational thing.

They really, really would rather the Pens be Detroit. Not soft necessarily, but a team that doesn't get involved in that stuff because they're too good for it.
Yeah, I've long believed, with some reason, that Morehouse had something to do with this turn the other cheek ********.

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04-14-2014, 03:15 PM
  #183
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The first 2 aren't tough, so little good it does for them to challenge Neil. That's not a knock on them; that's just the case. I think there are plenty of examples of teams - Red Wings - that have plenty of players who aren't tough, but are still successful. I'd rather Sutter not try anything as he's a pole. I'd rather Harry Z not react and instead proactively try to annoy, pester, and disrupt (I think Vitale already showed why Harry Z shouldn't be an enforcer).

The latter 2 - that's kind of their M.O. - along with Adams that's one of the more frustrating aspects about bringing Pyatt and Kobasew on - they're not tough, they're not skilled, and they're slow. Expecting them to suddenly be tough is unrealistic.
I was watching Game of Thrones for most of the game, so I'm not 100% sure what all was going on. Bourque was pretty mad, though.

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04-14-2014, 03:20 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by MeticulouslyDishevel View Post
I understand what you're saying and I don't find it offensive. As a 5'3" woman I'm not calling out a pro hockey player for being soft when I couldn't withstand a fraction of what they go through. I've competed with injuries in other sports, but having never played a contact sport it's really not my place to be calling someone out when I can't back it up.

Edit: I reserve the right to make heated comments calling players out.
If you work by that logic pretty much no one should be able to call them soft. How many people could handle NHL physicality or how many people have played in it? It's just people observing and commenting.


Being soft isn't even one of this team's biggest problems but it's probably one of the safer ones for the media to comment on so I expect it to get harped on. We need more Tanner Glasses because physicality, never mind the sheer amount of dead weight on the team.

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04-14-2014, 03:22 PM
  #185
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Yeah, I've long believed, with some reason, that Morehouse had something to do with this turn the other cheek ********.
It doesn't work for the Pens. This is going to sound jaded but I think the play with Hartnell and Letang is a perfect example of how officials treat our "turn the other cheek" style.

Hartnell took a dive-bomb run (aka a charge) at Letang at our blue line when he never really had a chance to get him. Letang side-stepped him easily and started up ice. As the play developed it was apparent Hartnell had Letang in his sights on the back-check. Hartnell proceeds to jump on Letang's back going full speed, "inadvertently" landing ontop of his upper back and forcing his head against the ice. Letang gets to a knee as Hartnell turns around and starts sticking him after the whistle. Letang slashes in retaliation and they're both gone. Now, not only does Philly not get penalized for 2 separate penalties during the play, and Hartnell doesn't get anything for initiating a scrum after the whistle, but Pittsburgh actually loses the trade-off with their best defenseman and Philly's clownshow forward....all while it should've been apparent to an official on the ice what Hartnell's intentions were from the second he threw the charge.

It's trash officiating at its finest.


Last edited by Rocket of Russia: 04-14-2014 at 03:31 PM.
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04-14-2014, 03:26 PM
  #186
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It doesn't work for the Pens. This is going to sound jaded but I think the play with Hartnell and Letang is a perfect example of how officials treat our "turn the other cheek" style.

Hartnell took a dive-bomb run (aka a charge) at Letang at our blue line when he never really had a chance to get him. Letang side-stepped him easily and started up ice. As the play developed it was apparent Hartnell had Letang in his sights on the back-check. Hartnell proceeds to jump on Letang's back going full speed, "inadvertently" landing ontop of his upper back and forcing his head against the ice. Letang gets to a knee as Hartnell turns around and starts sticking him after the whistle. Letang slashes in retaliation and they're both gone. Now, not only does Philly not get penalized for 2 separate penalties during the play, and Hartnell doesn't get anything for initiating a scrum after the whistle, but Pittsburgh actually loses the trade-off with their best defenseman and Philly's clownshow forward....all while it should've been apparent to an official on the ice what Hartnell's intentions were from the second he threw the charge.

It's trash officiating at its finest.

Even if Letang curls into a ball and does nothing, i guarantee he still gets a penalty to make it even.

That is Flyers hockey to a "T". They played it even when they alway lost to the Penguins.

1. Take a lot of penalties early on.
2a. Reap the rewards in BS make-up calls.
OR
2b. Get away with anything you want.

You put yourself at the mercy of the officiating. But if you know the officials are old school idiots, then it works.

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04-14-2014, 03:32 PM
  #187
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I was watching Game of Thrones for most of the game, so I'm not 100% sure what all was going on. Bourque was pretty mad, though.
Don't blame you for that. I don't know specifically what he's referring to but I can imagine it's just an overall feeling of wishing we had someone who was capable of dealing with Neil when he gets crazy and we don't want to put our 4th line out there. When I see Neil get in Maatta's face or Simmonds in Fleury's my gut reaction is to hope Engelland comes in and starts throwing bombs. The thought-out scenario is likely I don't want Engelland on the ice enough to be able to enforce against Simmonds or Neil, as often as they're out there.

For that I think Bourque is out of luck unless the team has plans for Milan Lucic to come on board. What he should be mad at is that there are 3rd and 4th line guys out there who could a) provide secondary scoring or b) stick up for teammates. We just happen to employ quite a few who do neither.


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04-14-2014, 03:33 PM
  #188
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It doesn't work for the Pens. This is going to sound jaded but I think the play with Hartnell and Letang is a perfect example of how officials treat our "turn the other cheek" style.

Hartnell took a dive-bomb run (aka a charge) at Letang at our blue line when he never really had a chance to get him. Letang side-stepped him easily and started up ice. As the play developed it was apparent Hartnell had Letang in his sights on the back-check. Hartnell proceeds to jump on Letang's back going full speed, "inadvertently" landing ontop of his upper back and forcing his head against the ice. Letang gets to a knee as Hartnell turns around and starts sticking him after the whistle. Letang slashes in retaliation and they're both gone. Now, not only does Philly not get penalized for 2 separate penalties during the play, and Hartnell doesn't get anything for initiating a scrum after the whistle, but Pittsburgh actually loses the trade-off with their best defenseman and Philly's clownshow forward....all while it should've been apparent to an official on the ice what Hartnell's intentions were from the second he threw the charge.

It's trash officiating at its finest.
Yeah, I think it would work if the refs were competent but they're not. The refs are ****ing horrible.

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04-14-2014, 03:34 PM
  #189
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Whoops. I don't know, Bourque had a long list of guys he was upset about not sticking up for Maata. Thought Sutter was one of them, but I guess I was wrong considering he definitely did not play.
Bourque is definitely right but I don't really see the personnel for that. Which is all the more reason to hate the Adams and Pyatt's of the world. Those are the spots for the guys that DO stick up for their teammates or agitate the other team's stars. Our pluggers don't do any of that.

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04-14-2014, 03:38 PM
  #190
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If this team is incapable of being smart about those types of things, I'd rather they just skate away.

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04-14-2014, 03:41 PM
  #191
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Megna got in Neil's face more than anyone outside of Glass. That is pretty sad.

Also, that damn Sutter. Such a soft game from him in the press box last night.
That doesn't surprise me. I'm still irritated that guys were standing around when Orpik was getting jumped.

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04-14-2014, 04:31 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Rocket of Russia View Post
It doesn't work for the Pens. This is going to sound jaded but I think the play with Hartnell and Letang is a perfect example of how officials treat our "turn the other cheek" style.

Hartnell took a dive-bomb run (aka a charge) at Letang at our blue line when he never really had a chance to get him. Letang side-stepped him easily and started up ice. As the play developed it was apparent Hartnell had Letang in his sights on the back-check. Hartnell proceeds to jump on Letang's back going full speed, "inadvertently" landing ontop of his upper back and forcing his head against the ice. Letang gets to a knee as Hartnell turns around and starts sticking him after the whistle. Letang slashes in retaliation and they're both gone. Now, not only does Philly not get penalized for 2 separate penalties during the play, and Hartnell doesn't get anything for initiating a scrum after the whistle, but Pittsburgh actually loses the trade-off with their best defenseman and Philly's clownshow forward....all while it should've been apparent to an official on the ice what Hartnell's intentions were from the second he threw the charge.

It's trash officiating at its finest.
And that's why I have an odd respect for Boston and Philly.

I'll preface things by saying that they're both full of ****, especially Boston who plays the victim card as well as any franchise possibly can, while simultaneously being instigators and antagonists.

But that's the right way to go about things if you want to win. The Harnell/Letang example was perfect. The refs are NEVER going to just penalize Hartnell for that, even though they know what his role is and what his intentions were during that play. NHL referees are always looking to even things out, and teams like the Flyers and Bruins know that.

So what do they do? They play to the edge and dare the refs to call everything, while the Pens seem to think that if they play nice, the refs will eventually give them all the calls. Remember that penalty Despres took a couple of weeks ago trying to protect Fleury? Zac ****ing Rinaldo was actually given the benefit of the doubt by the refs.

That's why I loved watching Harry Z. and Megna drive the Sens nuts yesterday. Fast and annoying, and yet I guarantee neither of them will see a single minute in the playoffs.

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04-14-2014, 04:34 PM
  #193
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Also, that damn Sutter. Such a soft game from him in the press box last night.
Yeah, What did people want Sutter to do last night? Did you expect him to drop down from the ceiling on a wire and start beating down people with a baseball bat like Sting in WCW during the 90's.

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04-14-2014, 04:37 PM
  #194
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04-14-2014, 04:59 PM
  #195
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What is your issue

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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I want to be really careful what I say here, but I have more of a problem when women, in referencing a sport like hockey, use words like "soft" to describe an athlete.

It's not like I don't have a problem with a dweeb like Rossi questioning a player's toughness, but I have an even bigger problem when a 110 pound woman does it.
What is your issue exactly?
That some 120 lb woman cannot understand what these guys go though, such that they cannot credibly question the athlete's toughness? Why not?

In fairness, none of us likely can say we've played at that kind of level, but I am not sure the athletes/competitors among us, male or female, can't have a credible opinion about toughness.

So yeah, I think you need to 'splain just a bit.

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04-14-2014, 05:10 PM
  #196
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Madden heavy with the Glass praise today.

Definite man crush. I give it a week before he is trying to buy a lap dance from Glass.

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04-14-2014, 05:19 PM
  #197
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Madden heavy with the Glass praise today.

Definite man crush. I give it a week before he is trying to buy a lap dance from Glass.
Bylsma wouldn't let that happen.

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04-14-2014, 05:24 PM
  #198
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And that's why I have an odd respect for Boston and Philly.

I'll preface things by saying that they're both full of ****, especially Boston who plays the victim card as well as any franchise possibly can, while simultaneously being instigators and antagonists.

But that's the right way to go about things if you want to win. The Harnell/Letang example was perfect. The refs are NEVER going to just penalize Hartnell for that, even though they know what his role is and what his intentions were during that play. NHL referees are always looking to even things out, and teams like the Flyers and Bruins know that.

So what do they do? They play to the edge and dare the refs to call everything, while the Pens seem to think that if they play nice, the refs will eventually give them all the calls. Remember that penalty Despres took a couple of weeks ago trying to protect Fleury? Zac ****ing Rinaldo was actually given the benefit of the doubt by the refs.

That's why I loved watching Harry Z. and Megna drive the Sens nuts yesterday. Fast and annoying, and yet I guarantee neither of them will see a single minute in the playoffs.
I get that, and it’s why our bottom 6 was so much better with guys like Cooke, Talbot, and even Ruutu, but the line isn’t even there any more to approach. There is no line.

Chara straight-up punched Sid in his newly reconstructed jaw after a whistle and nobody gave a ****. Hartnell just attacked Letang on 2 separate occasions on the same play, and not only got in his face about it, but was jabbing away with his stick. The officials saw nothing wrong until Letang slashed back.

Our opponents seem to grow bolder with each infraction they get away with, and for whatever reason our star players aren’t likeable enough to warrant sympathy. Toews craps gold, Datsyuk is just an elite 200-foot player who plays the game right, Backes plays tough as nails all day every day, and Dustin Brown’s borderline hits are what leaders do to get their team going, but holy **** if Letang makes a mad face, Crosby slashes in the faceoff dot, or Geno punches a player draped all over him, officials rush for their whistles like they’re trying to get located by a search and rescue.

We’re a team that mainly consists of two types: elite talent and passive, nonphysical plugs. How many officials were former elite talents? How many were probably useless plugs? What type of gameplay might they be most likely to sympathize with? I mean, look at the hit piece on Neal.

The gameplan couldn’t be easier against our team. Attack our stars because what’s the worst that happens? A) they let everything go and you cleaned Crosby’s clock after a whistle; B) They take you (a scrub) AND Crosby off the ice when he slashes you back; or C) MAYBE you get a penalty, and at which point your coach can go off and vocally suggest star players are getting star treatment – and this is a trend that I see happening with increasing consistency.

It’s in our team’s best interest to dress guys like Talbot and Cooke, who can proactively draw attention away from this set game plan.

I couldn’t believe how crazy Pierre was reporting it was down at ice level over Megna. The Flyers players were losing their heads looking to go after him, and it was incredible.

Hartnell, that POS ******* actually displayed some great leadership and got the troops back on track. With one charge, one jump attack, one slashing and after whistle tussle with a star player he single-handedly reminded the team, “forget Jayson Megna, you attack TALENT; you attack Crosby, Malkin, Letang!”

I’ve already accepted that Adams is in the lineup barring - anything this world can throw - but if Pyatt dresses on this roster during the playoffs...

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04-14-2014, 05:28 PM
  #199
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So

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Originally Posted by MeticulouslyDishevel View Post
I understand what you're saying and I don't find it offensive. As a 5'3" woman I'm not calling out a pro hockey player for being soft when I couldn't withstand a fraction of what they go through. I've competed with injuries in other sports, but having never played a contact sport it's really not my place to be calling someone out when I can't back it up.

Edit: I reserve the right to make heated comments calling players out.
So...who CAN back it up?
Just wondering.
I think even 5'3" women can have a valid opinion on toughness.

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04-14-2014, 06:45 PM
  #200
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I just hope Sidney the Kidney is happy

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