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Pens recall G Tomas Vokoun from WBS

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Old
04-08-2014, 06:49 PM
  #26
td_ice
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I always read DB's comments on Vokoun as just pandering to MAF's incredibly fragile mindset. As one of the "boys in the room" with clique power, DB wants to keep on his good side, as MAF is incredibly popular in the room, "he won us a Cup dohncha know". If you aren't part of that clique, DB isn't going to cater to you in ice time or media comments.

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04-08-2014, 07:52 PM
  #27
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I just wonder if there's enough time for him. There are 5 games left for WBS, I believe at least two are back to back, and the last one or two might be getting into nhl playoff time. Would you feel comfortable with Vokoun in the playoffs with only one or two AHL games under his belt this season? He's going to be extremely rusty

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04-08-2014, 08:08 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by td_ice View Post
I always read DB's comments on Vokoun as just pandering to MAF's incredibly fragile mindset. As one of the "boys in the room" with clique power, DB wants to keep on his good side, as MAF is incredibly popular in the room, "he won us a Cup dohncha know". If you aren't part of that clique, DB isn't going to cater to you in ice time or media comments.
Yeah with how many average to subpar playoff performances he's put up, it's just strange how much support he still has. Even more so than the usual when a goalie hasn't been as bad as he has.

That room either has its head wedged way up its ass or MAF will fall into a million pieces when faced with anything but excessive praise.

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04-08-2014, 08:17 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Fleury has to be seen as the #1 going into the playoffs no matter what (regardless of the last 4yrs), if they yank him after a bad game again, MAF should want out for the idiocy that is this franchise.
Really? "A" bad game?

How about being statistically the worst playoff goalie in history? And thats including 2 trips to the finals.. so you can only imagine how bad hes been the last 4 years.

If Fleury has "A" bad game like he did in game 4 last year. MAF won't have to want out. His ticket will be punched. And i volunteer to drive the bus.

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04-08-2014, 08:19 PM
  #30
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I'm pretty sure the Pens are rushing Vokoun back because they know how bad Fleury and AHL Fleury are in the playoffs. It's not a good combination, and I think the organization realized that.

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04-08-2014, 08:21 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by td_ice View Post
I always read DB's comments on Vokoun as just pandering to MAF's incredibly fragile mindset. As one of the "boys in the room" with clique power, DB wants to keep on his good side, as MAF is incredibly popular in the room, "he won us a Cup dohncha know". If you aren't part of that clique, DB isn't going to cater to you in ice time or media comments.
Probably some truth there. This organization - from the top down to the media drones - treats Fleury with kid gloves. They are afraid to say anything critical of him at any time. Ever since his first stint with the team. They are so afraid he'll go suicidal.. which he seems to do regardless so i don't know why they hold back.

I have to wonder what happens the day Fleury leaves town. Are we going to hear Madden, that eggplant Benz, Rossi, and the rest of them all tell us how much they really secretly despised Fleury?

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04-08-2014, 08:28 PM
  #32
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am I the only one that has more confidence in Zatkoff than TV?...i mean comon, the dude hasnt played all year; anyone who thinks you are gonna see the same TV you saw last year in the playoffs you are going to be disappointed. He's older; he hasnt played all season; hes trying to come back from an injury that COULD HAVE ENDED HIS CAREER. sorry id rather roll with Zatkoff if fleury ***** the bed.

I hate when people bring up the whole "fleury is the worst playoff goalie of all time" BS. Im not saying the past 3-4 years that fleury has played well by any means, he has been a disappointment lately. But common people. Montreal series a could years ago we got Halak'd plain and simple. Lightning series our team was totally injured (we had kovy playin first line :/)...Flyers series was an all around **** show from both teams and NO defense was played or showed up in that series. Last year fleury **** the bed.

But Fleury is having a great year. I have a feeling this playoffs he will turn it around.

You cant blame everything on the goalie I mean some of those series we didnt play great defense. When some people say we need to get rid of fleury, I wonder who do they want to replace him with. Either you are A) going to take a downgrade or B) pay even more for a goalie that isnt "that" much better for the price you are going to pay....O yeah and just a little fact; at this point in patrick roy's career, he had very similar numbers compared to fleury (and only 1 cup). Not saying fleury is the next patrick roy; im saying sometimes goalies mature later than skaters do. A lot of goalies do not hit their prime until early thirties (compared to skaters who hit their primes around late 20's.

Its Fleury or bust this year, i agree though if he ***** the brick again it is at least time to start looking at what else is out there

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04-08-2014, 09:06 PM
  #33
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Banking on Vokoun to save our bacon this playoff is illogical and not fair to him besides. He hasn't played all year, and it takes a good month's worth of games for a goalie to really hit his stride and be going on all cylinders. That's assuming, like Jacob said, that he can get to the point of being NHL ready in the first place. If he's getting a WBS conditioning stint a week before the playoffs... he's nowhere near ready. So if they force the hand and put him in at the end of the first round or start of the second, I'm not expecting miracles out of the guy. Don't be shocked if he has a stinker or two being that rusty.

What would be cooler is if he could come back next year and be as good as he was last year.

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04-08-2014, 09:37 PM
  #34
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I think the cap is the reason he wasn't back sooner. We are up against it with the additions at the TDL, So this scenario makes perfect sense. He'll get a couple games in at WB and be a last resort if things go awry up here. Due to the nature of the injury no one can suggest we tried to circumvent the cap.

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04-08-2014, 09:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Oneironaut View Post
Conditioning assignments don't. Bylsma's comments do. If you don't think there's any dislike, I'd encourage you to go back and read what he said about Vokoun after elimination last spring.
Wow, I didn't see what DB said about him last year...could you paraphrase/give the gist of it?

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04-08-2014, 09:59 PM
  #36
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Wow, I didn't see what DB said about him last year...could you paraphrase/give the gist of it?
He said Vokoun wouldn't get a chance to play in this year's playoffs because Fleury would be winning games for us between the pipes.

But holy, Some people really do just irrationally look for things to hate Bylsma for. Nothing he said about Vokoun going down for his conditioning stint shows he dislikes Vokoun. They are sending him down there to see if he can play at a high level, after not playing for nearly a year.

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04-08-2014, 10:03 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
He said Vokoun wouldn't get a chance to play in this year's playoffs because Fleury would be winning games for us between the pipes.

But holy, Some people really do just irrationally look for things to hate Bylsma for. Nothing he said about Vokoun going down for his conditioning stint shows he dislikes Vokoun. They are sending him down there to see if he can play at a high level, after not playing for nearly a year.
No doubt. He has got to play in WBS to even have a chance to play with us.

I am just surprised he wasn't sent down earlier. But maybe that is because he wasn't ready to play until now.

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04-08-2014, 10:10 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by td_ice View Post
No doubt. He has got to play in WBS to even have a chance to play with us.

I am just surprised he wasn't sent down earlier. But maybe that is because he wasn't ready to play until now.
I don't think it's a coincidence that he was sent down for this assignment when the Pens had 3 games left.

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04-08-2014, 10:59 PM
  #39
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After watching Zatkoff lapse into his last year's WBS playoff mode (not being too critical - the guy's been a decent backup this year), I suspect the Pens brain trust is praying mightily that TV magically plays like last year's playoff TV.

On a related note, from the box score, it looks like Hartzell had another bad outing at WBS the other night. So the diversion to Wheeling may not have cured whatever is ailing him.

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04-09-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Fleury has to be seen as the #1 going into the playoffs no matter what (regardless of the last 4yrs), if they yank him after a bad game again, MAF should want out for the idiocy that is this franchise.

But great for Vokoun, if he is ready to go, at least there's a capable back-up that has playoff experience, instead of Zatkoff.
Yeah MAF has really been mistreated...it's not his fault he is statistically the worst playoff goalie of all time. He just hasn't been given enough opportunities to turn it around.

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04-09-2014, 01:05 PM
  #41
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Good for Vokoun. I remember when Marc-Andre Fleury suffered a long term injury in 2007-2008, and he was sent to WBS on a conditioning assignment as well. Fleury had a strong post-season that year. It is going to be difficult for Vokoun to come back with high expectations, he hasn't played a single game this season. However, it's most important that Vokoun is healthy and hopefully he can get his life back on track.

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04-09-2014, 01:15 PM
  #42
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I think it should also be noted that Vokoun was almost certainly playing through a groin/hip issue last season. If you compared his lateral movements late last season to the beginning of the season, something was definitely wrong. He was able to adjust though and still play at a high level. When completely healthy, he is an elite goalie and this layoff won't change that. I look forward to him replacing Fleury, again.

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04-09-2014, 02:26 PM
  #43
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I think it should also be noted that Vokoun was almost certainly playing through a groin/hip issue last season. If you compared his lateral movements late last season to the beginning of the season, something was definitely wrong. He was able to adjust though and still play at a high level. When completely healthy, he is an elite goalie and this layoff won't change that. I look forward to him replacing Fleury, again.
if he was an elite goalie he would have been a full time starter on another team. im sorry but you are mistaken. vokoun "MIGHT" be better than zatkoff this year...and thats a big "MIGHT". you are talkin about an older goalie who hasnt played all year. sorry we arent gonna be gettting the same TV we saw last post season. And to be honest, a lot of last post season with vokoun was pure luck (yes he played amazing but he had luck on his side also)

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04-09-2014, 02:51 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Fleury3434 View Post
if he was an elite goalie he would have been a full time starter on another team. im sorry but you are mistaken. vokoun "MIGHT" be better than zatkoff this year...and thats a big "MIGHT". you are talkin about an older goalie who hasnt played all year. sorry we arent gonna be gettting the same TV we saw last post season. And to be honest, a lot of last post season with vokoun was pure luck (yes he played amazing but he had luck on his side also)
Yes, he could have been the starter for the Pens after thoroughly outplaying Fleury last season, but Bylsma had other ideas in his postseason presser (being better than Fleury simply wasn't enough). In terms of layoffs, chew on this:

- Vokoun played his first game for the Pens on 1-20-2013. His last prior NHL game was in March of 2012 (10 month layoff).
- Vokoun's last NHL game was 6-7-2013 (10 months ago).

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04-09-2014, 02:51 PM
  #45
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Yeah MAF has really been mistreated...it's not his fault he is statistically the worst playoff goalie of all time. He just hasn't been given enough opportunities to turn it around.
"Statistically the worst playoff goalie of all time" how? He's had one historically bad series (2012 vs the Flyers) but still ranks 41st out of 75 all-time in playoff sv%, right ahead of Tom Barrasso.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/lead..._career_p.html

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04-09-2014, 02:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
"Statistically the worst playoff goalie of all time" how? He's had one historically bad series (2012 vs the Flyers) but still ranks 41st out of 75 all-time in playoff sv%, right ahead of Tom Barrasso.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/lead..._career_p.html
Maybe consider adjusting those numbers for obvious differences in league-wide scoring? The avg number of goals scored per game between Barrasso's era and Fleury's are not even close.

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04-09-2014, 02:59 PM
  #47
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Maybe consider adjusting those numbers for obvious differences in league-wide scoring? The avg number of goals scored per game between Barrasso's era and Fleury's are not even close.
My point remains, he's not statistically the worst of all time. Not that his numbers are anything to brag about...

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04-09-2014, 03:52 PM
  #48
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My point remains, he's not statistically the worst of all time. Not that his numbers are anything to brag about...
The only thing that list proves is that:

1. Fleury is statistically the worst active playoff goaltender.
2. The only goalies with a worse playoff sv% than Fleury had their careers being 25+ years ago - when the average scoring was 3+ goals/ game over today's averages.

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04-09-2014, 04:00 PM
  #49
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The only thing that list proves is that:

1. Fleury is statistically the worst active playoff goaltender.
2. The only goalies with a worse playoff sv% than Fleury had their careers being 25+ years ago - when the average scoring was 3+ goals/ game over today's averages.
Stats really are a stupid thing. There's a reason scouts go and WATCH a player. Stats may work in baseball, but hockey is a whole different ball game.

I'm not huge Fluery fan, and I've been critical of him a lot, but if you don't think this team's "lets play offense as our defense" state of mind hasn't hurt his numbers, you're crazy.

And if you want to go by statistics, a pretty good chunk of the players who have "better playoff stats" than Fluery have 0 Stanley Cups.

I'd rather have worse stats and more Cups if you ask me.

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04-09-2014, 04:01 PM
  #50
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If Vokoun's "still got it", would management be willing to resign him in the summer, irrespective of his age?

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